Yote 53

I included the Idaho schools because they are State schools and a conference that looks like that, a conference of peer schools, they may be more inclined to move to FBS for that. May have a good point about UNC. I included them solely based on location. They would be interchangeable with somebody else, maybe EWU or NAU.

That Deslauriers fight was a tilt.

BTW - I loved following this thread this season. The Midwest High School League championships start this weekend, Iowa/Nebraska/Kansas. So, programs that many of you come across in the youth ranks from Sioux City, Des Moines, Omaha, Kansas City, Waterloo, etc. The hockey is actually pretty good, though would not challenge the GF schools, much like the rest of NoDak has trouble with that beast. We suffer from the same issues. Most of the top players leave HS for AAA. In most years, close to 20-25 players or more leave for other teams. It hurts the overall quality of HS hockey and if more players stayed home it would be better. Admittedly, when my oldest reached HS age he left for AAA and did not play HS. Bottom line is that if you don't play HS in MN or a few other select areas (like GF and maybe other places in NoDak) you are not seen and any accomplishments are not taken seriously by junior hockey coaches and scouts. You have no chance at playing at the USHL or NAHL levels unless you leave. It's not the fault of the kids or the parents. Trust me, they sacrifice and would love to stay home. It's the fault of the system.

Was thinking more along these lines: Potential Division I G5 Conference 2 UND NDSU SDSU USD Montana Montana State Denver Omaha Idaho Idaho State Weber State UNC 10 team football conference playing a 9 game round robin schedule. 12 team conference for all other sports. Nice geographic fit on two sides with the I-29 corridor on the East and decent fit from Denver to Missoula in the west.

The only path to G5 for the Dakota schools is a few Summit schools merge with the Big Sky schools in Montana, Idaho and a few others creating an entirely new conference. Throw out the NCAA rules about establishing an FBS conference. Take them to court and you'll win on anti-trust grounds. They've lost every court case they've been challenged on lately. The MAC is not moving this far west and CUSA is way too stretched out. The best idea is the most obvious, that similar schools with similar goals in a similar geographic region (West) get together to form their own conference.

Possible. When in GF we always hit the Red Pepper. Also, on the list is Slapshot/Fat Albert's. I always try to wear some Coyote gear too because that strikes up conversations with both UND and NDSU people too. Loved coming up there for hockey, Fargo/Moorhead, GF/EGF. It's a good time. Plan on doing it all over again. I'm starting all over now with my youngest and have a 1st year Mite. We ran into some GF teams last year in March at a tournament in Marshall, MN where I got to see them play. Looked really good. We plan on going back there this season (and every season after) so maybe we'll see them again. Marshall puts on a good tournament. I read this thread and nod my head. Just know you guys are not alone with what is going on with this sport. I know guys from Wisco, Michigan, Illinois, etc. and it's happening there too. Minnesota gets hit hard too but they have such depth in the number of programs and number of players that they can weather it better than the rest of us can.

It's an endless spiral. We have this problem in the Midwest League (Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas (Kansas City)). The level of play is sneaky good (seriously, it is) and I'd guess the teams would compete with the NoDak HS teams outside of the usual GF powerhouses. Evidence of that is at the youth levels we come up and play in Fargo, Moorhead, Detroit Lakes, and Fargo regularly, so I've run into many of your programs and have an idea of the level of competition. Also, understand that programs like Omaha, Des Moines, and Kansas City have 6, 7, 800 plus kids in their programs. Size matters. Issue is that every year any player that can leaves and plays Tier 1 Midgets because the Midwest League gets absolutely zero exposure. Off my oldest boy's bantam team (years ago) 5 players out of 14 on the team left for AAA programs in Omaha, Des Moines, Sioux Falls, Colorado (Roughriders), and Northstar Academy. That's a lot, and that's just one program, Des Moines, KC, and Omaha were gutted even more. If the MWL was able to keep all these kids at home and playing HS hockey the competitive level of the league would definitely increase. I've been an advocate of a before/after team (like your Team North Dakota, and Team Wisconsin) where the boys can stay home and play HS hockey while still getting that Tier 1 exposure. Seems to work for TW. You speak of the atmosphere of MN HS hockey, I can guarantee the atmosphere in NoDak, SoDak, MWL, Wisco, Illinois, Michigan, any HS hockey barn is better than the lonely Tier 1 grind where these kids travel all over the country playing in front of family that make the trip, a few locals who happen to be in the barn, and a handful of scouts...maybe. It's an expensive grind and it ends up being not even worth it for 80% of these players. Unless you have a NAHL or USHL team offering you a spot I'd recommend just staying home and playing HS hockey. Problem is that if you aren't getting offered on that level, and you believe you do have talent and you want to develop, the best way to do that and get noticed is to leave for a Tier 1 program because staying at home is not going to get you anywhere, at least in the MWL. I'm sure it's different if you play for Central or Red River or ND programs that compete on that level. At least there are some eyeballs on those teams.

I will tell you that if any of the Dakota 4 make the move to FBS, all the Dakota 4 will be making the move to FBS. As we learned 20 years ago, the cost of getting left behind is greater than the increased funding costs to stay with your peer Dakota schools. Those mistakes will not be repeated.

When it comes to SDSU making moves there is always talk, discussion, more talk, speculation. USD just does it. Look at how the facilities and the campus at USD have changed. The CSC, workout facilities, track complex, softball complex, expanded DakotaDome, now building an indoor aquatics center. If there is a move to FBS, none of the Dak4 are going to be left out of it, every one of us is positioning ourselves to make that move if the opportunity comes. Too many politics to allow that to happen again and there will not be a repeat of what happened 20 years. A lot of lessons learned from all that.

Having just gone through this with my oldest son, this is absolutely correct.

If Washington, Oregon, Stanford, etc. brought increased value to the Big 10 they would be in the conference already. The numbers have been run and the BIG Commish has publicly said they are standing pat with USC/UCLA. USC has publicly said it doesn't want another West Coast school in the BIG (Oregon). The BIG will now wait until the ACC starts to crumble so they and the SEC can pick over that carcass for the best pieces, and ND has nowhere to park its other sports and joins the BIG. There's a reason Oregon and Washington are in talks with the Big 12, because they have nowhere else to go.

This is going back years and years, but the MWC is basically the old WAC. The old WAC expanded outside of its traditional footprint to form the first superconference, it didn't work. The footprint was too large and unwieldy. The original WAC broke off and formed the MWC, back to the original footprint. Lessons learned there. I don't see the MWC venturing into the central time zone and the Great Plains. Just look at the map... Map of NCAA D1 Schools

Not sure how you read that quote, my intent was to say that decoupling the Dakota schools will be extremely difficult. There will be a ton of political pressure resisting decoupling. Years ago USD had that BSC invite in hand and it was political pressure in-state that kept that from happening. USD leaving the Summit at that time would have severely hurt the conference and SDSU in the process. You think SDSU will now be allowed to do the same to USD? No, they won't. I am going to guess it would play out very similarly politically in North Dakota. The Dakota 4 sticking together is the key. We either continue to strengthen the Summit from within or we ally with the Montana and Idaho schools.

I like this comment at the bottom of the DU article. "funny how everyone in this conference seems to think they are too good for this conference." Yet nobody in this conference is getting offers from "better" conferences. There will be a ton of political pressure applied to the XDSU's to decouple from the UXD's. I just don't see it happening. I honestly don't get the same vibes from Jacks fans that Bison fans have. They seem very content with their spot in the FCS and there isn't much talk of FBS at all. Bison fans think FCS is beneath them. The irony is that NDSU's program is fading. SDSU is on top now, but who knows if that can be sustained now that Stig is gone. Both USD and UND aren't sitting idly by either, both improving and adding resources, not just content to sit and watch the SU's success. I don't know what will happen but do know the MWC has a lot of different options out west before they get to NDSU/SDSU. Location of the Dakotas is an issue.

I don't see the BIG doing partial shares. I can see them doing reduced payouts as a buy-in to becoming a full equal partner. I believe that is how Maryland/Rutgers was done, plus the BIG floated Maryland's exit fee, so there was a lot going on with the finances. If conference members aren't equals that creates problems, look at the Big 12 and Texas/OU. How many years before Washington and a few other schools look around the room and wonder why they aren't getting the same share that Purdue gets?

Big Ten Commish just came out and said they are not looking at further expansion. The impending PAC implosion probably puts an end to any talk about a PAC Hockey Conference.

Good question. I have heard they are coming back this year. I do not know if they will come back at the same competitive level or how their structure has changed. I know a few ISU hockey alumni that may know something about the program. I'll have to inquire next time we talk.

I don't really have an answer. In theory, D1 means more funding, more support, more practice time, etc. when you research the differences on the web. In reality, I'm not sure about that. One thing I read online is that the difference between the two is that D1 has more full-time coaches and recruits more heavily than D2. I am not sure about that anymore as the D2 schools had dedicated coaches and recruited just as hard and the programs were run very similarly. You only need to look inside the state of North Dakota to see how confusing it is. Jamestown (D1) and UMary (D2) are top 15 programs in their respective decisions. UMary has played and beaten Jamestown as well as other D1 schools. D1 schools play D2 schools. D2 schools beat D1 schools. My takeaway is that if you're looking at Top 15 D1 or D2, either way, they are going to be strong, comparable programs. Full disclosure, my oldest went through the AAA/Juniors route and was recruited by ACHA D1 and D2 programs, Top 15 programs in each division. He ended up choosing a D2 school because after a visit and the Spring Skates (discussed in the article) he just liked it the best. Comparing the different programs, they were all really similar, costs about the same, dedicated locker rooms, number of practices per week, full time coaching staffs, quality of players on the roster (all had players with junior/AAA experience), some had better fan support than others. In the end it really came down to the school and cost of that school and personal connections. I will say that there was a private school in the Midwest that came through with an impressive financial package but he ultimately decided not to go there, not a good fit, just didn't see himself there sort of thing. Also true from the article is that a lot of recruiting is done by current players on the team, word of mouth. The hockey world is small and these kids talk. He knows players on the team that he played Juniors with and they were in his ear about coming there before his last season of Juniors even started. The school he is going to practices 3 times a week, travels plenty, 35 games per season, and is one of the most popular teams on campus pulling in about 1,500 per game. Cost for the season is $2,000. That is CHEAP compared to what I have spent on hockey over the years. I'll spend that much travelling to 3 Mite tournaments with my youngest this season (yes, you heard that right and if you can do math...).

This is a really good article. I would add one thing to the writer's conclusions. When looking/comparing different ACHA programs you need to throw out the D1/D2 labels. There are D2 programs that are much better, better run, better coached, and get much better fan/student support than many D1 programs. The D1/D2 label can be deceiving, D1 doesn't always mean better.

So they could save $17 million??? It actually makes no sense because that letter is going to end up costing them more than $17 million either in increased costs and lost revenue if they end up without a conference or low-ball offers from the PAC and B12. They tried to get cheap trying to avoid the extra exit fee thinking they should have a place at the big boy table and the MWC told them to get fricked. I love it.

See our thread at GoYotes.net saying the exact same thing. We should have gone to the Big Sky with you guys and never looked back. By now the XDSU's would have joined us and we'd have our long dreamed alliance with the Montana and Idaho schools. Instead we are stuck.

It wasn't just the app, BSN on Midco here cut to Timberwolves pregame. I flipped over to ESPN/TNT (can't remember) for the end of the game but that was a serious WTF? moment on Bally's part.

Interesting. I had heard that Wartburg in Waverly, IA was looking at absorbing the program but they don't have an on campus arena and would have to play in Waterloo.

Dumba is one of my least liked players on the Wild but his hit on Pavelski was clean. Shoulder on shoulder, finishing his check. Will also note he didn't run him as Dumba was skating backwards and had two skates firmly planted on the ice. Maybe Joe should get his head up and realize this is the NHL playoffs and not open skate. What I see from the crying about this hit is the clashing of old hockey fans that like the tough, physical style of play and the new hockey fans who are fans of soccer on ice that enjoy the skill, speed, and dazzle but don't dare touch little Johnny. It's like freaking hockey mom's screaming when a perfectly legal check happens because it made too much noise. Call something ref, the game is getting out of control! STFU. The difference between Dumba and Suter is Dumba's hit was part of the flow of the game. Pavelski had the puck and had just moved it and got finished. Kaprizov did not have the puck and Suter was just pounding on him outside of the play. You could say Kirill was fair game because he was in front of the net, ok, I'll listen to that argument. Reaves or Foligno will take care of Suter.

That's not just another NCAA v ACHA game, that's in-state rivals facing off. i think the only way this happens is if Arizona has its eyes on elevating their program and ASU is giving them a helping hand.