jimdahl

You've noted yourself that a possible landing spot for NDSU and SDSU is the creation of a new conference. Now, however, there seems to be a wrench in that plan since I'm not sure SDSU is actually allowed to move without having an existing conference accept them. If that interpretation is correct, that would eliminate the most probable conference affiliation for UND because that new conference definitely would have had open arms. Since SDSU is primarily a basketball school anyway, Mid-continent might be next in line if they can't get into Big Sky. That does have the potential to also be a UND home, but since football would definitely be the sport driving any UND move, it's a pretty poor choice. UNC wanted to get away from the Dakota schools, can't imagine they'd have wanted an even wider conference that includes the Dakota schools. They seem quite content to rough it out as an independent for a while. That was always party of the problem with the D-I NCC plan, UNC was going D-I partially to get away from the NCC. I think that's a big part of why UND is waiting -- there aren't any great conference opportunities for it. As you've also correctly pointed out, even NDSU's unlikely successful entry into Big Sky probably wouldn't generate an opportunity for UND.

Well, according to the Herald the final 3-point shot for the win was clearly taken from inside the 3-point line. Video replay apparently confirms. You really hate to lose that way. PS - I was using upset in the traditional meaning of a lower ranked team winning a contest

Argh -- not only are the women upset, but the men miss out on a big upset opportunity. The men lost by one (78-79) on a 3-pointer at the buzzer by USD. You always hate to lose that way. Sounds like the women played a little more dominantly than USD, but had horrible shooting. Not a great way to begin the NCC season.

Let me introduce you to something called context. Yes, I said profits weren't relevant TO THE PRESTIGE OF AN ATHLETIC PROGRAM. I'm not going to repeat my arguments, but it's on record that you failed to address them, but instead take every opportunity to quote me out of context. Regarding the rest of your drivel -- it's been hashed out here. Do you really think that Ralph gave UND a gift that was an ongoing cash-drain or liability? He's clearly set it up to be self-sustaining for a long time to come.

OK, while I did agree with you on the "scandal" argument, I gotta disagree with your others: As Husby is fond of mentioning when its not relevant, the profitability of a program is critical to its survival. Conference affiliation affects travel costs and fan interest (especially in fair-weather Fargo) which in-turn affect the ability of a program to sustain itself. That's why we talk about those issues. I know you're unwilling to admit there's any risk because NDSU has already jumped head first, but I would prefer UND enter any such endeavor with its eyes open (as SDSU has done). Assuming by "Dakotas" you mean the land grant ag schools (UND is also a Dakota school), many of us disagree with this presumption. If I thought UND really weren't considering D-IAA, this forum wouldn't exist. We're not all as obsessed with NDSU as you are UND. We talk about it because it's relevant to UND.

Sigh. I can't believe these people don't realize how silly that argument sounds. The institution, its coaches, its boosters, and its athletes are completely in control of what rules they do or don't follow. Classification has nothing to do with it except that the more people care about your program, the bigger news a scandal is. If the Allen situation had occurred at Duke, we all would have heard about it through national media outlets (see Minnesota). Avoiding the prestige of Duke athletics because we don't want our dirty laundry aired that publicly is ridiculous.

Actually, that particular separate forum exists to discuss the impact on UND of the changes in the NCC and the possibility of UND moving to D-IAA. That forum would be closed tomorrow if the possibility of UND moving to D-IAA was really off the table. One has to be quite naive to actually believe they're not watching everything and continually reevaluating the possibility (particularly given that Lennon decided to stay).

I don't make it to Grand Forks much but hit the holiday tournament on Friday night. I'm no PCM, but I did play with the camera a bit. All shots taken from row K of section 307 (read: nowhere near the action) http://siouxsports.com/hockey/showgallery.php?id=6

Good article. I think you just posted it because you're quoted in the WSJ

I didn't know there was hockey further west from North Dakota

I think it's just a carry over from the now-defunct all-Minnesotan pride on ice days. Though the experiment of playing all-Minnesota kids proved unsuccessful, the attitudes born in that era still survive. When they were playing only Minnesota kids, it was critical to get all the best talent from Minnesota. It's never bothered UND fans to have someone from Thunder Bay (or S-SM ) score the NCAA-winning goal. Therefore, getting the best talent from ND is less critical than just getting the best talent. That said, I certainly understand the appeal of seeing the kids at the high schools you follow going on to the college for which you cheer. For ND fans, I think it's sort of like when Kleinsasser went to the Vikings. No one would've wished him ill had he gone to the Packers, it's just nice to see a local boy move up into another team you like.

I'll type really slowly this time. Profits are irrelevant in this discussion because I'm not talking about the business success of the program. I'm talking about the prestige and national attention it brings UND, which is simply dependent on how many people are exposed to the sport and exposed to the school because of it. Those people couldn't care less how much UND profits off them being a fan. They're not more or less of a fan dependent on UND's profits. Profit matters in UND's ability to sustain the support, but that's a completely separate issue that I don't think anyone is worried about.

Yeah, the D-I hockey referendum in Fargo a couple years ago seems to confirm your assessment. It also hurts that the hockey fans in Fargo only have to drive an hour to get to one of the best D-I teams in the country -- it's practically a single market. Despite NDSU's desire to add hockey, there's just not much community support.

Certainly with a pretty full plate of goalies already and Lamoureux signed for '04, I suspect the Sioux didn't have much to offer Ziegelman. We can't take all the good players, there are only so many roster slots.

Nope, profit is irrelevant to my point. My point was the source of NDSU's insecurity and jealousy of UND hockey. It's because of the number of bodies going through the gate (many from Fargo) and national recognition the school gets, not profit. No one has ever claimed that NDSU is going D-I or has tried repeatedly to add hockey to increase profit.

Frankly, star2city didn't seem that upset by your slogan (I've never seen it), he was just using it as evidence to make a very valid point. * It will be decades, if not centuries, before NDSU has 7 D-I titles (frankly, that's a moving target that I suspect UND will increase long before NDSU approaches it) * UND's hockey gate in a year is more than all of NDSU's D-I sports combined will be * NDSU has repeatedly tried to add hockey, but can never come up with the money Trust me, we know why NDSU fans disparage hockey in every venue and forum that they can. No need to explain yourself.

So THAT'S what's responsible for the following personal attacks: (All quotes JBB) Hardly. This thread had NOTHING to do with NDSU. It's about the future of the NCC, which NDSU is leaving. Attacking UND, Grand Forks, all their fans, and now the NCC does not provide any sort of pro-NDSU sentiment, it just reveals your true motivations.

Their parents are Jennifer McEwen Enoch and Eric and Karen Hale. I can't guarantee there's not a more distant relationship, but there's also no evidence of one. Doing a little further research, apparently Larry Hale was long enough ago that he's probably a bit old too be a parent of WCHA players, so I guess I didn't really add much interesting.

Though that definitely crossed a lot of fans' minds strategically, I think throwing a game would really destroy a team's momentum and spirit. The team that goes on to win the NCAA championship has to play hard to win every game throughout the tournament and often has a certain momentum going into the tournament. I don't think throwing a game would work at all from a psychological standpoint. Plus, it's easy to misestimate the "easy" path!

It's an old cricket term that has been applied to sports in general (often used in ice hockey). http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=h...t%20trick

Right you are. The link I provided earlier lists the rules pretty clearly. * The agent question is up in the air (depends on whether the NCAA decides that the guy was an agent rather than a friend) * Trying out for a team at their expense makes you a pro (the room and board seems like it might meet that standard) * Playing in a scrimmage against an outside opponent makes you a pro Thankfully, though, JBB doesn't determine the punishment. The Forum and Herald both speculated that forfeiture of up to 7 games would actually be the harshest possible punishment. The bigger question is what happens to Myron's eligibility?

That's correct. Games against foreign teams can't be considered for the purpose of NCAA tournament eligibility.

Yeah, I meant to mention that. Usually only the Minnesota games are reliably on Fox Sports North.

Generally, all UND games are available only in the home market (Midco cable in Dakotas & Minnesota) or via big dish satellite: KU Band Galaxy 3C Transponder 18 95 Deg West Longitude Downlink Freq 12050 MHz Horz Audio 6.2, 6.8 The only exceptions are those games that get picked up by the local Fox Sports affiliate, which is apparently available on DirecTV nationwide (though some cable systems may eventually be adding those -- I know Charter in Madison is now adding more of the regional Fox Sports networks).

That was sort of what I was saying above. While I don't think we need to hire private investigators to search into everyone's past, I would have guessed that there would be some sort of meeting with new recruits at which we stressed NCAA rules about eligibility, taking gifts, etc... If we sat down and listed the rules for each recruit, violations such as this should be obvious to the student (though you are counting on him to disclose it, which is not to his advantage). The NCAA rules are quite clear on this situation, though: http://www.ncaa.org/eligibility/cbsa/amateurism.html I mean, there's no room for honest error here (assuming the facts as presented are true, which is NOT yet proven).