dlsiouxfan
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Posts posted by dlsiouxfan
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Along with having an administration that was proactive and positive rather than just reacting, there's strength in numbers. NDSU tried getting the support of the NCC and ended up with only SDSU. They also had conversations and advisors with UNC and UC Davis going through the transition. Had UND leaders had the vision at the time to see what was going to happen (as they have now) they'd have gone at the same time. Instead they're going it alone and after debating for the last 3 years and hoping South Dakota will come along too.
As far as the not following the consultant's recommendation argument, haven't you guys beat that one enough? Do you still think a far away DI conference is going to want to add a DII school in North Dakota? The consultant was wrong. I think Mr. Buning would agree.
Yes we do know that a consultant's recommendation regarding a conference would have been unrealistic and that's why we're smart enough not to waste money having them tell us the same things they told ndsu.
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Really?
When are you going to do anything professionally with regards to the transition?
Poo-poo DI and NDSU for four years.
Decide to study the issue and put out a joke of a report-which does not support the move.
Announce that you will be making the move in two years, maybe.
I don't see how an institution like UND could have done this any more half-assed.
I know it's next to impossible down there but try to be at least semi- objective. UND's move has been equally as well planned as ndsu's. I mean how is it any different hiring an outside consultant if you're just going to ignore his advice anyways. I know you hate to admit it but UND is in just as good a financial situation as ndsu was when they moved. Both schools ran deficits in the years prior to the move, just like most institutions do when it comes to athletics. Plus, it should count for something that UND has a larger alumni base than ndsu, so you're whole argument that Grand Forks can't support the move financially is a moot point when often times a university's biggest donors live elsewhere. Not too mention but Fargo's growth benefits both UND and ndsu since a large amount of Sioux fans live in Fargo and a great deal of students come northward for their education. As far as the bitching you guys have done for the last few years about us not cheering on your D-I move well what did you honestly expect. You all know you would have done the same thing to us if the situations were reversed and I'd like to invite you all to dry your tears from us hurting your feelings and get over it.
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Chapman supporters really need to sit back and think about if the type of system he's advocating is the type of system that really is best for ndsu. They seem to be supporting a system where the North Dakota universities act independent of each other and act only to serve their own best interests. If that's the system they're truly supportive of then they shouldn't have any problems with UND-Fargo offering programs that are offered by ndsu. Bison fans forget that it was the NDBOHE who reigned in UND's efforts in Fargo and if not for Potts we'd still be there. Furthermore, under a system where every university acts in it's own best interests independent of the NDUS, what's to stop UND from starting a pharmacy program and it overtaking ndsu's. Furthermore, what if Kupchella goes to the legislature and actually gets the funding formula skewed the other way so UND's getting even more money than it does currently. It's not such a far-fetched scenario, all it would really take is a few more legislators with ties to certain institutions.
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Personally I liked what he said about getting into Montana and Nebraska a little more for recruits. There are a lot of good football players who slip through the cracks in those two states because they get missed by the local D-I schools.
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One thing I've noticed about the ndsu and sdsu fans in this thread. You continually attack UND based on concerns about their budget and how supposedly those two schools were better off financially when they made their move than UND is. BinCitySioux then produced a link to an impartial record keeping site that demonstrated that simply isn't the case (I know it's a year old but we don't have numbers for this year yet). You then proclaim that the site obviously uses dubious accounting to come up with their numbers when they used the same accounting basis to calculate all three schools revenue and expenditures. None of you have produced any such links to back up any of your claims and when we produce them to defend UND you say they aren't good enough. This sort of behavior leads many of us to question your motives. I firmly believe that most of you will not be content with any sort of answers to your questions other than us stating that UND will fail with this Division I move.
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And please don't tell me about the "name recognition". UND has no name recognition below SD, and if they do its for hockey. Hockey doesn't help a basketball school or conference.
I don't know they'll probably just tell the athletes the same thing that sdsu will be able to tell their players regarding their current success at the D-I level. Oh wait I guess that wouldn't be the best recruiting pitch. UND will be no worse off than either of the SU's when it comes to basketball recruiting. We've already go the best facility (the Ralph) and scheduling games around hockey won't be that big of a problem considering how other schools (Wisconsin) seem to be able to manage it. Plus, UND is probably most likely looking at either the Mid- Con or the Big Sky conference for basketball membership and most of the members in those conferences don't have exactly overwhelming facilities or attendance for their basketball programs.
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Hiring an architect before funding is in place does seem to be putting the cart in front of the horse if you ask me.
There is a big difference between hiring an architect and starting actual construction. It help fundraising to have an actual plan to show people before they write their checks.
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NDSU has the money in hand. They have hired an architect.
I think you need to check your finance dictionary. There is a pretty big difference between a budget deficit-which apparently UND has-and receiving institutional funding-which nearly all athletic departments receive.
UND as an institution does not have a deficit. Someone has already posted a link somewhere on one of these threads. The athletic department, like ndsu's before their transition, did run a deficit. Institutional funding will probably also be used to correct this, just like ndsu. So once again how are our situations that different.
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Seriously?
Chapman like all presidents in the UND system feels like he gets the short end of the stick for funding which judging by how our legislatures funds the universities he's probably right. However, if I were going to come on here and start throwing stones at another institution's financial situation I sure wouldn't have done it immediately after our president violated NDBOHE protocol to ask for more money.
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NDSU has the money in hand. They have hired an architect.
I think you need to check your finance dictionary. There is a pretty big difference between a budget deficit-which apparently UND has-and receiving institutional funding-which nearly all athletic departments receive.
So when plans were first started to renovate the bsa, ndsu had every dollar lined up. If I remember correctly their was a large fundraising campaign just to make it happen. How can you argue that UND putting together a funding plan for future facilities upgrades was any different than what ndsu did with the BSA. It actually makes sense to do it the way both universities have done it as it's a lot easier solicit future donations for something if you actually can show the donee a plan for what their donation will be used for. To argue that UND is acting any differently than ndsu in this matter is pure idiocy.
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Say what you want about our economic situation but it wasn't our president begging in front of the state legislature for more taxpayer dollars.
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It's interesting to note that when you recieved a large gift from the estate of an alumni there was a big press conference. But when asked about the Financing of this move its all hush hush no one wants to talk about the increased costs and the source to cover those increased costs. Your right that I don't know but using the history of your university its a safe bet its not from an alum or otherwise there would have been a big announcement and press conference announcing it. That would be worthy of an announcement so that the taxpayers will know they are not footing the bill for a move that is at least at this point financially not sound and on shaky ground at best. You throw insults and jabs at someone who asks a legitimate question, why not give an informed answer if you know what it is otherwise your posts are off base. The taxpayers of ND and all the other financial institutions of the State of ND have a right to know!
Going by your logic ndsu should have had the money in hand before putting together any plans for renovating the bsa. By the way how's that going? Furthermore the whole division I move for ndsu never woud have happened because the bison also were running a deficit in their athletic department before they made their division I move. Guess that doesn't matter though because the decisions of Joe Chapman are never to be questioned. I'll go out on a limb and make a prediction UND will most likely have and indoor practice center before any work starts on renovating the BSA.
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What's wrong with a little payback. Was it in the best interest of the state to discontinue the rivalry three years ago? No, but UND said it was in their best interest(which they found out really wasn't when RT left). It seems that NDSU holds all the cards now, so why not play with them. They received no favors from UND, so why return any? I'm with you on one issue though, I hope they never do play again, which will become the case when Kupy turns back when he realizes the Big Ten won't be offering them conference membership in the next two years. It seems that quotes from the UND administration is that the Mid Con isn't quite good enough for them as it isn't "a good fit" for them. Beggars can't be choosers, as they will find out.
You realize by not playing us during the transition your surrendering any sort of advantage you've gained by moving ahead of us. It's probably more in your best interest to play us and beat us why you still have an advantage rather than wait for us to play you on a level playing field where if the past bears any indication you've been less than successful competing with us on.
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All of you Sioux fans that are in favor of the D1 move have only one man to thank for the move, and you are all trashing him on this thread. It is Dr. Joseph Chapman. Without him NDSU doesn't make the move and without NDSU making the move, there is no way in he@@ UND goes. Don't bite the hand that feeds you.
In that case ndsu should be ever thankful of the man who created the impetus that led to ndsu's division I move and honor Roger Thomas for building the Sioux football teams that ruined ndsu's football dynasty by consistently beating their ass and turning them into the also- rans they were their last few years in D-II football.
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The only games that were hard to get tickets for were the Gophers and Badgers at the old Ralph. The others frequently had 2000 empty seats in a 6000 seat arena. And the regionals were full and loud this year because it was the playoffs. Maybe they should try an alcohol free weekend during one of their non conference series this year to see what effect it has on attendence. If it doesn't have an effect, maybe they should make it permanent.
Since your suggesting this I think ndsu should lead the way by prohibiting drinking at their tailgating for bison football this fall. I recall a great deal of pissing and moaning concerning that a few years back. It's absurd to argue that the only reason people attend Sioux hockey games is because of the alcohol and yes I'm sure that not everyone at a Sioux hockey game is their solely for the hockey. There are probably any number of reasons why people attend Sioux hockey games just like there are probably any number of reasons people attend bison games. People attend for the entertainment experience and if alcohol is part of it so be it. Eliminating the sale of alcohol would have no greater effect on attendance than eliminating some other minor part of the experience would have.
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I wonder how this transition and move to D1 without any chance of post season will affect the GPA??
Will the mission statement change....in that area athletes will no longer get a quality education at THE University of North Dakota??
The Sioux athletic program has always done things classy and has always placed a strong emphasis on academics that won't change in D-I. In my opinion this is one of the dumbest arguments against a D-I move to assume that just because a person may be slightly more athletically gifted that they must somehow be lacking in the classroom is an ignorant and baseless assumption. If anything the full scholarships that will be afforded our athletes at the D-I level will no doubt help a few athletes improve their academic standing. I for one probably could have turned a few more B's into A's had I not had to work a job during the season to afford school since my athletic scholarship wasn't covering all my expenses.
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We lead and you follow and you say we have the inferiority complex, what a joke!
Moving first I guess can be considered a feather in the cap for the NDSU faithful, but ten years from now that won't matter and you had better hope you have a few wins against us or it'll be back to the same old crying down south you had your last few years in D-II.
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The sad fact is that most of opposition from UND folks over Chapman is motivated by jealousy and antipathy towards NDSU.
This whole dispute has nothing to do with UND. It's between chapman and Potts. Why is it that every time something goes wrong at ndsu it's always part of a grand conspiracy by UND to hold them down? It's ridiculous to listen to. It must be easy to have positions of authority down there because every time something goes wrong there's someone at UND they can blame it all on. NDSU fans blame UND for this just like they blame Roger Thomas for the fall of ndsu football in the 90's. Grow up.
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I say that if we get anyone who knows two things about hockey or managing athletes we might as well make that person head coach because they would probably know two more things than our current coach.
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I will assume that means there won't be any crying on this board when the SU's refuse to play UND until 3 or 4 years after your D1 move unless forced to by a conference schedule. This is one Bison fan who believes the Bison have every right not to play the Sioux until forced to. I'm hoping the two schools end up in different conferences.
Good, don't play us for three or four years and waste any advantage you've gained by moving to Division I three years ahead of us. Then we can meet on a truly level playing field and we'll beat your ass just like old times.
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Not to be an a$$, but right now in basketball those schools are your peers. I hope you're new coach has some decent players coming in. I really miss the old UND teams. I've also got to say the Jerome Beasley is my all time favorite NCC player, it's too bad he wasted his future.
It would have been great if he could have made it with Miami. I know that all of you would love hearing Jerome Beasley.... University of North Dakota during the finals right now.I think saying Beasley wasted his future is a bit harsh. People forget that of all the major professional leagues the NBA is by far the hardest to break into.
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This is the type of schedule we can expect if we stay in division 2. Do you consider any of those schools our peers? I sure don't.
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The good Dr. K. might well be right in his opinion, as all of you. There seems no doubt that the NCAA is wrong in this matter. That all being said, it is probably better not to vent, to keep the lid on the irritation and not look like a ranting bafoon.
The hypocrisy (I can't spell, is that right?) that you are all so peeved about is a component part of the NCAA. Unfortunately, it is a club that we want allies in, not just enemies. This is Politics 101 stuff here - work within the organization to make change, don't sue them to make your point.
This is Dr. K.'s way of stomping a bid for transitioning to DI. This letter will seal the University's fate in this matter.
In no way can the NCAA prevent UND from moving to D-I without significant changes to it's bylaws. Any institution can elect to move to whatever division they want by simply meeting certain requirements. This idea that UND needs NCAA approval to change classifications is completely incorrect and is only stated by people who have spent most likely zero time researching anything about the D-I move.
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The rationale for moving to division I should be simple. How can we expect to make any kind of money whatsoever playing a schedule with some of the crap DII teams that are starting to show up on it in ever increasing frequency every season. A championship loses a lot of it's luster in my opinion if you the only people you beat for it shouldn't be playing you in the first place. We have to think long term with this move and remaining division II isn't a viable long- term option if UND wants to maintain or improve on it's current stature. Perception eventually becomes reality and if enough people start perceiving ndsu to be superior to us because of athletics and other start considering schools like Mary and Winona are equals then that's eventually that's the level of school we'll become.
NDSU's Big Week
in NCAA News
Posted
It looks an awful lot like we got you beat in those categories too. We've definitely got you beat in the first four, would be equal in the next two, and then i guess you do have us on the last one but we could always start a new team or two. I guess the truth really does hurt.