dlsiouxfan
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Posts posted by dlsiouxfan
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Nice try, but everyone reading this board knows you're trying to deflect attention from a $700,000 deficit (not debt, thanks woden). So I'll ask again, like I did on the other thread, why are you going D-I when you can't afford to be D-II? Just answer it. I don't want to read about:
1. I'm ignorant
2. NDSU blah blah blah
3. SDSU blah blah blah
4. We already have enough money!
5. We'll make it work, you'll see.
The truth is there is no plausible explanation, and all of you know it. You're just choosing not to admit it. So I'm going to keep rubbing the $700,000 deficit in your faces until you actually discuss what the logic of it is. Before you ask, I care because its funny to read you're posts about how everything is fine when its obviously not in any way "fine". Its like watching a relator try and sell some dump. You know its a dump, he/she knows its a dump, but they'll be damed if they admit its a dump. It's "cozy", or "economical". Whatever, its a piece of crap, and I'm going to call you on it.
First of all this $700,000 dollar deficit is a projection that hasn't materialized yet and if you care to read other parts of the report aside from the one that supports your argument a very plausible answer for the deficit is given. That is that costs are rising in DII and new sources of revenue need to be found and they aren't in DII. As I remember correctly ndsu was also in the red before their D-1 move but that doesn't matter now I guess. Now on a personal note Aff why don't you share with us where you attended college. I would like to know what academic institution produced a man of your tremendous intelligence since you happen to be the smartest person on this bored.
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I will make one point and this is not isolated at UND. Quite the contrary as a matter of fact. The problem in this country in general when it comes to fiscal policy whether it be government, business, academia, or on a personal level is spending vs. income. UND when you refer to athletics has been operating at a negative. Given Title IX and the hockey situation its no suprise. But the fact is when you consistently spend more then you take in there is something wrong with that picture. So to be looking at spending more when your fiscal house is not in order in the first place in my opinion is wrong. As has been pointed out by many whether you agree or not it appears there are many questions that are legitmate regarding the funding of this move. How anyone can support a huge move without those questions answered and answered honestly not by a committee put together to rubber stamp a move one way or the other is beyond me.
I believe you also have to look at the causes of a deficit. If UND's deficit is a result of increased costs of remaining Division II (forced to pay larger guarantees, more expensive travel for nonconference games) and no new sources of revenue in division II then moving to Division I is the only viable option for taking care of that deficit. I also believe that when UND does declare a Division I move it will be financially supported by the alumni at least to the same level as ndsu's was.
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As for the engineering point I've heard that there are certain fields of engineering where UND is superior and certain fields where ndsu is superior. I'm not certain which because I'm not an engineering student. I would also argue that it could be one of the areas where both schools have excellent programs and there isn't a tangible difference in the quality of the two programs.
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research is not education.
Excellent point, unfortunately increasing emphasis on research can have negative effects towards student learning. A university with limited resources and faculty can sometimes put too much emphasis on research, which means instead of professors spending time with students or teaching classes they're putting together research projects and a TA is handing out study guides and student learning is affected. I'm not saying that is the case here at UND or at ndsu and I know those dollars are important, but an appropriate balance needs to be kept.
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Actually, tnt, I won't, as I was serious about not having knowledge of an objective ranking of undergraduate education.
I do appreciate the snideness in your remarks though.
{Edit: I don't know of one for graduate or professional education either.}
Actually you are right they both are great schools. They both have excellent programs and in addition to having certain programs that are unique to each school they also have a number of programs that overlap. In some of these areas both schools excel and in other areas one school may have a distinct advantage. UND fans may come off as arrogant when talking about some of the fine programs here at UND, but I would say no less so than ndsu fans who come on here and state that ndsu is somehow more deserving of being considered a D-I institution than UND is when the evidence clearly shows that isn't the case. They both are excellent schools and fit the profile of Division I level institutions.
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I guess I'm kind of in a no- win situation. You insinuate that UND hasn't taken the steps forward to be considered a D-I institution academically. I refute that statement and you call me arrogant. Well guess what call me arrogant I'm not saying anything the rest of the country isn't saying. UND produces some of the top students and alumni in the country- bar none.
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Once again you have proved the point about why UND is looking at moving up. Has nothing to do with what's best or right for UND only that your trying to keep up with NDSU
Why can't your move or proposed move up be with the school as a whole in mind not just athletics? NDSU has grown at a fast rate in the last 5-7 years. It wasn't just about making our sports teams better, it was about the institution as a whole. I don't see anything in almost all the threads make mention of anything except sports. Its a fair question.
UND's move also isn't only about athletics. UND has also seen a tremendous amount of growth in the last 5-7 years and a number of new academic programs have been established. As well UND has taken some tremendous steps forward in some of it's established ones. In fact our enrollment would have continued to sky rocket if not for tougher academic standards aimed at producing a more controllable enrollment growth rate. UND has programs in area such as medicine, accounting, aviation, law, engineering, entrepreneurship, among others that truly are peers to those at Minnesota, Wisconsin, or anywhere else in the nation and our decades ahead of those at ndsu. UND was already a D-I institution academically 5-7 years a go and had we had a different president who wasn't so adverse to a D-I move because of a bad experience he had at a past school we'd probably be at the same point in the transition as ndsu, but more likely ahead.
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I'm just paraphrasing what the Mid-Con commissioner said. Don't stone the messenger.
He actually said they would not be considering UND while they remained a D-II institution. I think a great deal of people on this board and in UND's administration have realized that unless we declare out intentions to move D-I and possible go through a few years of the transition process we won't be taken seriously by any conferences looking at expansion. His comments should not be taken as a blanket statement that the Mid- Con would never be interested in UND even after a D-I move.
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UND lost 5 recruits to NDSU...supposidly....those 5 made or broke this recruiting class?? I find that hard to believe....as well as other implications...As far as the mission statement....As THE FLAG SHIP institution...this move will not benefit student athletes wanting to pursue their education and play college athletics...If you believe to compete at D1 UND will find ND kids, your kidding yourself....in order to get kids to Grand Forks, you will have to get the border line kids....IMO
Ok first of all we didn't supposedly lose recruits to ndsu, we lost them. Go and look at their website you'll see their names on their rosters. We might not have gotten all five but I know of at least two of them who were very high profile football signees who wanted to come here but we couldn't offer a full ride and ndsu could and without one college would not have been affordable. To further my point if we continue to lose kids like these we'll end up having to do one of two things either we can lower our standards and start going after the kids Mary and Minot State our signing and forget about ever winning titles again or our coaches can start looking elsewhere for talent. By elsewhere I mean recruiting kids from further and further out of state or from juco schools. In order to remain competitive we'll probably also be forced to take quite a few chances on kids with academic or character issues just so we can get talented athletes in here.
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I personally do not think it was orchestrated...but I guess we will see in a few weeks....as far as going D1...I dont think its a good idea....because UND's mission statement for student athletes
If you could please fill me in on how moving to Division I will hurt our mission as far as student athletes? I for one don't buy that by moving to Division I we'll have to resort to recruiting only out of state kids. Taking one look at the bison roster should be enough to demonstrate their are many capable players in both Minnesota and North Dakota. Moving to Division I will give us a shot at landing some of these kids instead of having every single one of them head south like we had this offseason. Furthermore I don't see how having kids on full rides doesn't actually help our team's GPA. I remember as a student athlete how school would have been a lot easier if I wouldn't have had to work a part- time job on top of practice because my scholarship didn't cover all of the expenses that come with attending UND.
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Orchestrated or not, it's certainly good entertainment for us down at Bisonville!
Small minds amuse easily
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It's only a matter of time before we start losing recruiting battles to ndsu in women's basketball like we are in other sports. Plus with Roebuck nearing retirement should we really sacrifice other successful programs like football and men's basketball so the women's basketball team can go 30-0 by beating the crap out of piss- poor schools. It's in the facts, before we lost to St. Cloud our closest game was against UMC- Crookston. Five years ago in football we got nearly every single athlete we went up against ndsu for and it showed as we dominated the series against them. They now have the ability to give full rides to their recruits and that's an advantage that means something with escalating tuition costs and they're kicking our ass in recruiting. It will take a few years to catch up because we're a few years behind in the transition, but we should be able to make up for lost time fairly quickly. We will be further behind the longer we wait and it will be harder to regain the lost corporate contributions and fans we lose by remaining D2. I really don't see where any of the other coaches other than Roebuck could have any opposition towards a D1 move. The new MBB coach should be all for it, I know Lennon is, Hakstol shouldn't be affected, and every other program is a minor program that depends on the success of revenue sports and corporate and alumni donations to sustain itself.
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more benefits as far as money but at what cost, getting border line athletes that no other d 1 school wants, hurt your over all team GPA is the cost worth the benefit....as well as losing some of your current coaches.....
Actually most of those costs would seem to be the cost of staying division 2. Getting ndsu's leftovers for athletes and losing probably the most successful coach in the athletic department in Dale Lennon.
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This kind of thing happens at all levels the only difference here is that when your the premier Institution in the state everything is magnified so everyone talks about it. When you guys have a student athelete not make the grade no one hears about it becuase no one cares
Congrats your the premier AG university in the state. Good for you. So much for those other things like business, medicine, engineering, and law, you've got the best sheepsheering program out there. You talk about D-I when you guys should be talking about tier 4. Yeah that's where you guys got ranked. UND was tier 3. So much for premier institution in the state.
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Yeah, then we can start running this school like it should be, FOOTBALL and HOCKEY FIRST. Is anybody else as tired of academics as me? I mean seriously, how much can it cost to have classes. The first thing that needs to go are all of the teachers. I'm pretty sure they could get by on half of what they have right now. I mean, their not even doing anything half the time. What a bunch of lazy as$es. The money saved there could probably fund a move to D-I, so that UND is playing for the nickel again. And thats not even getting to all of that bullsh!t "research". I've got an idea, why don't all of those teachers research a beer at a hockey game. THERE'S something that actually matters.
Ok how about you back some of this crap your spewing up so we can debate you. What is it about sdsu and ndsu that you feel they have an advantage over UND regarding a D- I move. Is it better academic programs and more alumni and students? Nope guess not. How about higher academic prestige? Nope guess not either. Wealthier more active alumni? Another miss. Why don't you come on here and state one thing these two schools have on UND instead of pissing and moaning that we can't do it.
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What the heck is this foreman 20 minutes late? Other hod carriers? What do you think I do for a living? Machine shop?
iramurphy, spare me your condescending rhetoric. But if it makes you feel good about yourself, so be it. Apparently, your administrators won't let UND get bad-mouthed, but you UND guys are certainly fairgame when it comes to bringing NDSU down,... how do you guys put it? Classless? Agricultural College? Nice. Hippocritical, but nice.
I give my school as much money as I can. At this point, its not much, but it's better than nothing.
If you guys can't take a joke, so be it.
Seeing how long you can last on this site before they kick you off. It must be rough being banished from bisonville.
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Students should have a say in the casino election and every election in Grand Forks. We're one of the few growing segments of the city's population and we should have an even greater say in it's government. The decisions of the city council this past year hurt students and future students will pay the price for them. Costs on rental units are already through the roof in this city and there rising because of the zoning law and the loud party laws are being abused by law enforcement. For example, many student houses received loud party fines immediately after Springfest because they had violated the 24- hour noise ordinance since people were on their lawn during Springfest. Other homes owned by older individuals didn't receive citations, just students. Furthermore how could these students have prevented this since they in effect received citations for living next to an event that had loud music and was attended by thousands of people. GF is also a community where having a loud party is now the same level misdemeanor as a DUI, so that citation means something when we go out in the work force. It may not seem like a big deal to older citizens and you can call us whiny brats if you feel like it, but the majority of UND's advertising is word- of mouth from UND students and the words coming out of students mouths aren't too good right now.
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Why is Betty Ralston on the committee in the first place? She is the compliance director for the athletic department. Tell me where in her job title it says she should help with hirings of new coaches. It is absolutely embarrassing and unethical of her to start dragging people from her former job to her present job. The sad thing is, EVERYONE knows that it's her pulling the strings on the Weemer process. On top of it, he has her as a reference on her resume? Now that's discreet. Here is what has happened at UND within the last year or so:
1. The loss of Tim Tibesar, which probably couldn't be helped - no blame on administration there.
2. The loss of Rob Bollinger - we still don't really comprehend how much this will hurt in the long run.
3. Rich Glas leaves - 18 years of service to Fighting Sioux Athletics.
4. Look at the applicants for the basketball job.
We are walking a very thin line right now as an athletic department. The quality of personnel at UND has definitely been diminished. How much longer before we go public and say we aren't going D1? Then budgets will be cut, then coaches will leave, and the dominoes will fall. If we lose Dale Lennon because he doesn't like the direction everything is going, then UND has lost the war as an athletic department and institution. We need a new president, we need a new athletic faculty representative, and we need a new vision. I truly believe Tom Buning can do a good job, as long as he has the backing of his superiors to make the right moves. I don't believe he has that now in place. Remember, he's a Lt. Col. from the U.S. Army. He's following orders, and will not "rock the boat". It's what he knows.
Also, I am totally in agreement that Brekke and Lennon should be involved in the hiring process before Betty Ralston. They have the best interest in the University in mind.
I can almost guarantee that if we do not move to Division I that Dale Lennon will be gone once his contract is up if not sooner. It would be career suicide to stay here and try to coach with the recruiting disadvantage we're now at. Kupchella apparently has decided to rest on his laurels and coast his way into retirement and we're all the fools who are willing to stand by and let him do it. His legacy at UND could very well be as the president who took UND from being the premier institution in ND and one of the premier institutions in the Midwest to the level of Minot State or UMary. He's hired people who are incompetent (Buning) so they will serve as his mouthpiece and do whatever he says without challenging him. Furthermore Buning and Ralston have screwed up a hire already when the hired Moorhead's GA as the volleyball coach and are well on their way to screwing up this one. In their eyes as long as hockey does well they can disregard the rest of the sports and until we get these idiots out of their jobs every other sport and the university as a whole will suffer.
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I don't see how waiting 5 to 10 years or until the next president to make this decision is going to make our transition any easier. If anything it will be quite a bit more difficult to make a division I move in 5 years after most of the corporate donations have headed south and we've turned a decade worth of high school students into Bison fans. The longer we wait the further we fall behind and the more difficult the transition will be. This is our best chance and if we don't step up we'll be mired in Division II for years to come and our athletic department will be suffer tremendous setbacks from its current level. Secondly, it deeply troubles me how Kupchella and Co. have handled a challenge fom NDSU. When I began attending school here in 2002 we were the premier institution in ND- athletically and academically. NDSU has challenged us by upping their athletics and to this point we haven't responded. It makes me wonder if we'd roll over if they started to improve their academic programs such as business or even law or medicine and challenge us in these areas. Would we step up our levels or would we rest on our laurels until it's too late and they've surpassed us. It seems to me we're setting a horrible precedent by in effect choosing to become inferior to ndsu in athletics.
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Perhaps Kupp is planning on leaving soon and would rather leave the DI decision to the next president?
Wouldn't that be an honorable thing to do?
If that is the case he should have left a few years ago. Opportunities like this only come around so often if the growth of the university has to be put on hold because he wants to leave difficult decisions up to the next president then he probably shouldn't have this job anyways because he's clearly getting paid to do a job he isn't doing. It's his job to be a leader of this university and act in it's best interest, if he's holding the university back because he wants an "easy road" to retirement then that is inexcusable.
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In response to the Mid-Con showing interest in expansion, the Big Sky will also show interest in expansion by asking NDSU, SDSU, SUU, and UND to submit "institutional profiles"/letters of inquiry to the league office, the same thing they did in the fall of 2004. Then they'll study the issue.
With the recent comments coming from both Kupchella and Boyd, I fear that DI may be a dead issue at this point for UND
. The fact that the Montana St. President is pining for NDSU, and considering the positions of the western Big Sky schools, I now think it is becoming more likely that the Big Sky will in the end expand by one, and that one will be NDSU. SDSU and IPFW will eventually end up in the Mid-Con. UND will continue to toil in DII and anchor an NCC that will add DAC schools. If such scenario does occur we need to hold Kupchella and Co. accountable for their shortsightedness hurting UND. The alumni should step up along with everyone else and ask for his resignation for mishandling this situation if such as situation occur. D-I is the way to go and we may have missed a golden opportunity because of the way they've handled this.
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Yeah a lot is said about sacrificing our women's basketball team's tradition. I think a big part of that tradition was playing and winning games against other good teams and having to battle for conference championships. Going 30-0 against piss- poor competition every season isn't a tradition I would want to hang my hat on.
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Quite to the contrary - the only sport that would benefit would be football. Ask the once proud Bison Womens Basketball, volleyball, or softball teams. What do you think would happen to both Sioux basketball teams, track, baseball, volleyball, soccer? The move up to DI for these teams is a killer. This is just from a comptition aspect. How do you think we would fund the move - apparently we are broke now even with attendence at record levels for hockey, football, and women's basketball. The move up would be a train wreck for most programs.
Imagine how much worse the bottom line will look if attendance drops because the casual sports fan heads south to Fargo or if corporate donations dry up because everyone wants to support the D-1 institution towards our south. No doubt those sports will struggle, but they'll struggle even more when they're budgets are cut because we're losing our fan base. Plus it's only a matter of time before women's basketball starts losing recruits to full rides from NDSU and SDSU like football and men's basketball. It's also only a matter of time before these recruiting losses start hurting us on the playing field and then how will that affect attendance and the availability of funds. By staying D-2 you're effectively selling out every sport that competes with the SU's for athletes or donations.
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Wyomingbison writes....Not Sure Winonia is a UND Peer?
They just won a Div2 Natl Championship in Mens Basketball..?
I am not sure why everyone downgrades the likes of the Northern Sun Conference and other ND Schools other than the Big two..UND and NDSU....
I believe alot of top Div1 schools play within their States and Regions when possible to complete scheduling, but never get critized.
UND can play within the state and still be successful, and still play a strong non-conference schedule with regional Div2 powers, like Pitt State, Grand Valley, and throw in some RMAC Schools to boot...
Why not be the BEST Div2 has to offer...Would that be so awful..?
If we remain Division 2 soon we won't be the best D2 has to offer we're losing every recruiting battle to the SU's right now and it will only get worse. How can we maintain our current level of success with less talent? Why should we settle on having an athletic program that can be likened to and considered a peer of those at Winona State University and the University of Mary when we can be peers with Minnesota and Wisconsin. Remaining division 2 will damage the university's reputation in the long run and if we wait too long it won't be easily repaired. I never thought this many UND fans would be in favor of becoming a second rate university and of becoming a peer school of UMC- Crookston. If we stay D2 we risk destroying every bit of tradition we've built at this school. Ask any of the UND football alumni who were part of the 12 year losing streak if going back to that is an option? That's the reality we're faced with, it's either move up or be left behind and it looks like were in favor of being left behind.
Buning Says UND Moving
in NCAA News
Posted
Well why don't you share why then instead of being so cryptic. There probably are a number of reasons why this recruit didn't attend UND and good for him on picking a school he likes, but we've lost kids for no other reason than ndsu being able to offer a full scholarship and that's something that will hurt us in the long run.