RD17

Speaking of slipping attendance: SDSU men's basketball attendance in D2: consistently in the 3300-3500 range. SDSU men's basketball attendance in D1: 1600 two years ago and 2000 last year. Not to mention that football attendance slipped nearly 3,000 per game last year despite having Georgia Southern and Cal-Poly (I-AA playoff teams) on the home schedule. Now I'm sure the board's biggest non-SDSU fan (aff) will be here shortly to try to explain this away.

Yes, some certainly are. But (I believe) there are at least three times as many hockey season ticket holders as there are for football. Obviously most hockey ticket holders do not have season tickets for multiple sports.

I'm surprised that no one has brought up this paragraph that was in this Herald article today: This certainly indicates to me that the students and season ticket holders are pro D-I, all things considered. Also, I think it's reasonable to assume that more season ticket holders for hockey were surveyed than basketball or football simply because there are more season tickets sold for hockey. Now I'm not saying that all the people that are hockey-only ticket holders were cool on a move, but clearly there is a percentage that simply don't care one way or another about whether or not the rest of the sports are D-I (I realize this is purely anecdotal, but just click on a random thread in the hockey forum and look at all of the users with 100s of posts that have never posted on anything but hockey). I'm sure if only basketball and football ticket holders were surveyed, the results would have been much more favorable towards D-I.

Miles was at Southwest for four years, had winning seasons all four years, and led the team to the Elite Eight in 2001. I think that is a decent amount of D2 experience. I'm all for Smith being a finalist, but there is no doubt that Miles was a more experienced coach when he was hired at NDSU.

Oh I understand that... it would just be nice to see how everything was worded since there seems to be some controversy.

Maybe. But with Kupchella's track record on the D-I issue, it would certainly appear to me that he will use any ammo he can to keep UND in D-II, regardless of what the committee says.

It certainly would be nice if we could see a copy of the survey so everyone could judge for themselves.

I was told a month ago (by another member of this board) that the surveys would come back negative on D1 because of how the questions were worded (i.e. some questions allegedly pitted higher faculty salaries versus money for D1, etc.). I would also agree that there is an ulterior motive in all of this, but I think it comes straight from the top (Kupchella).

NDSU's lack of a conference is simply a matter of geography. You don't seriously believe that if UNC were in the Dakotas that it would be in a conference at this point? I don't think anyone would confuse me for an NDSU apologist, but my point still stands on the differences between NDSU and SDSU/UNC. I think Gene Taylor has the right idea on how to do this and NDSU has the resources (at least so far) to carry out the plan. SDSU and UNC do not. And if you honestly believe that UND now isn't in a better position than SDSU or UNC when they made the move, you are delusional.

It doesn't matter what SDSU and UNC did in D2 or how they compare to UND now... neither SDSU or UNC has (or will have) the financial ability to succeed in D-I, IMO. NDSU has the right idea on how to do all of this and they will have success, SDSU and UNC will not.

And it is still only $6.5 million for 20 (?) sports. Plus they are still under $1 million in total scholarship aid. Not a recipe for success.

I don't think this hiring is being handled properly. IMO, the athletic department needs to announce which direction it is going to take (D-II or D-I) before hiring a coach. Buning's deadline of having someone hired by May 20 is too soon and some very good candidates might be scared off by the uncertainty.

Yes... Buning has said that a $2.5 to $3 million increase is what it would take to be successful. Heck, if UND wanted to do it on the cheap like SDSU and UNC it could keep the existing budget and just reallocate. But if you're going to do it, you might as well do it right.

According to this link (September 2004 IAC meeting minutes), UND gets about $800,000 from student fees. I wonder if the students would go for a 850% increase so UND can match UNH?

I'm not sure. But after you mentioned it in another post earlier today I thought I'd send out a couple of emails and see what I can find out. I'll let you know what I learn.

Interesting... where do I send the check?

In 2004 when UND decided not to continue the series with NDSU, Division II was using a formula that heavily penalized teams for playing I-AA opponents. That formula was in place in 2003 and it essentially kept NDSU out of the playoffs because they played two I-AA schools. Now that formula is gone and RPI is used. So playing a I-AA school doesn't damage UND's chances of making the postseason like it did a couple of years ago.

To expand on what PCM said, UNH gets $6.9 million of its athletic budget (nearly $500 per student per year) from student fees. Another $6.5 million comes in the form of direct institutional support. UNH is not a school UND wants to model as far as financing Division I.

Yep, I know. Mayville would probably have been gone 10-15 years ago if not for the constitution including them.

Well gee, Minnesota-Duluth played that same UNI team last year, how did their season turn out? Northern Colorado got "beat up" by Montana in 2002 (31-14) and all they did was go unbeaten in the NCC and reach the national semifinals. One game against a I-AA team is not going to ruin a season. And why would Dale Lennon be commenting on the schedule? Have you ever seen him comment in the past on schedules before they were released? I think not.

Completely disagree. The NCC schedule by itself is enough to get UND ready for the playoffs, regardless of who the non-conference opponents are. Grand Valley only plays two or three regular season games a year where the other team is even a threat and they don't have much trouble in the playoffs.

You truly are a student of I-AA football. Jacksonville is non-scholarship. Jacksonville State (the team UNA defeated in 2003) is full-scholarship I-AA. I think you need to "sharpen up" on your I-AA knowledge. Oh yeah, and the other game everyone missed was Valdosta State defeating I-AA semifinalist Florida Atlantic 45-17 in 2003. I suppose your going to try to tell us that FAU sucked that year too.

I agree wholeheartedly. It is just silly to keep maintaining institutions like MaSU and VCSU at the expense of shortchanging the colleges that actually have some viability.

Excellent point. There was this study done by the Indianapolis Star about a month ago that shows the ridiculous amount of student fees and institutional support some schools are putting towards athletics. James Madison (2004 IAA champ) charges each student $1186 dollars per year in athletic fees!

The SOS index doesn't exist anymore so playing a IAA team isn't nearly as prohibitive as it was a couple of years ago. In fact, the D2 football committee is discussing allowing every school to exempt one non-D2 game from playoff consideration. So the UNI game might not even count for or against UND when it comes to the playoffs. Also, for those that think UND will get blown out or doesn't have a chance, think again. I can give you several examples in the last five years where elite Division II teams have not only competed, but have beaten prominent I-AA teams. I'm not saying UND will go there and win the game, but the gap between the top teams in the two divisions isn't so large that they can't be highly competitive.