star2city

The only time that men's and women's teams will be forced to go separate ways is for conference championships - and those meets may actually be on different weeks. Otherwise, both teams may have nearly identical travel schedules, as conferences don't mandate dual meets - only the concluding NCAA-qualifying conference meet. The current MPSF ranks for women's swimming assume that the Big West will not sponsor that sport. With the recent addition of Hawaii, the Big West is back to five schools (UCD, UCSB, Cal Poly, Pacific, Hawaii) and only needs one more affiliate addition (Loyola Marymount or USD) to decimate the ranks of MPSF women's swimming. MPSF would be left with Northern Colorado and Bakersfield, which would be horrible for UND women's swimming. On the men's side, the MWC recently dropped men's swimming after losing TCU and Utah as well as BYU, so teams from Wyoming, AFA, UNLV, and BYU were forced to join the MPSF for that sport. With Denver, Seattle, and Hawaii, the MPSF for men's swimming is an ideal conference for UND. Other than the PAC10, the MPSF is really the only game in town for men's swimming in the western US. In general, affiliation with a multisport conference is preferable to the MPSF, except in sports that the PAC10 doesn't sponsor. UND's recruiting power, which has suffered during the transition, should dramatically increase with affiliation in these conferences, which are much more desirable than the Summit or even MVC.

SCSU fans are not the one's with a voice in the NCAA - your administration helped poison the well between UND and the NCAA. While that's not directly the fault of SCSU fans, SCSU fans did not speak up in defense of us in any meaningful way. Guess what goes around, comes around. Potter's statements that SCSU wouldn't join a superleague are basically an admission that SCSU does not have the money or political will within the Minnesota State system. If St Cloud St had the money to move up, Bemidji St and Mankato St would have cried foul and either wanted in also, or blocked SCSU's move. UMD being under a different system didn't face those political obstacles.

Yahoo Sports: Why the new Superconference is horrible for college hockey So somehow it's North Dakota's fault if it wants to improve it's lot in life, but Minnesota gets free rein to do what it wants? Minnesota had a choice regarding Big Ten Hockey: other BCS conferences like the Big East and the Big 12 would instantly have taken in the Gophers if Minnesota had taken a real stand. If Minnesota had real principles and gone to the Big East - which is begging for quality AAU schools - it might have had a shot at a decent football conference record, its basketball teams might have returned to their glory years, and the WCHA could have stayed intact. But the Big Ten's money and prestige made that concept simply unthinkable - relegating all gopher sports to the bottom of the barrel.

The hockey cartel system is dead, at least in the west. In a cartel, the dead weight schools benefit the most, while the outsiders can't join the party. Findlay has no chance: they took out their ice making equipment and remodeled the rink, making it non-usable for hockey. Wayne State has very little chance: still don't have a rink on campus and Michigan has major financial issues. The Super League, especially if it has Notre Dame as a member, might actually have a chance of getting higher profile non-Big 10 schools to start hockey: like DePaul, Iowa State, Utah, or even Texas. Not especially likely, but with the old WCHA, name schools like would never have considered it. What is concerning about Notre Dame's wait is that the Irish are probably lobbying another Big East school like Syracuse or UConn to join them in Hockey East.

With the new hockey order, it creates all types of opportunities for additional schools to add hockey. Look at what the "stability" of hockey caused in the past ten years: Wayne State - begged and pleaded with the CCHA to admit then: denied, Wayne State dropped hockey Findlay - wanted CCHA membership instead of CHA membership: denied, Findlay dropped hockey Mercyhurst, Niagara, Robert Morris - wanted full scholarship hockey ever since CHA dispanded: CCHA denied membership so schools are forced to comply with the AHA scholarship limits UAH - begged and pleaded with CCHA for membership: denied, but UAH carries on as an independent. Lindenwood - moved to DII, but only moved women's hockey to varsity status because of conference issues on the men's side Grand Valley State - has not pursued hockey, in part because the CCHA never showed interest Davenport (Grand Rapids) - top ranked club team moving it's athletic program to DII, has interest in DI hockey Liberty (Va) - has on-campus rink and highly ranked club, without a conference opportunity has placed varsity hockey "on ice" In the west: Montana State-Billings - studied adding hockey in the past decade, but with no meaningful conference affiliation available chose not to pursue hockey (Billings has a nice rink downtown) MSU-Moorhead - ditto, but with Scheels Arena complex Minot State - thought to have moved to DII in large part just so it can start hockey (flood may have changed that status) The CCHA and WCHA membership policies have limited hockey's growth in the past. That's about to change.

Imagine a Ralph complex with an attached 5-6000 seat arena/BB court north of the Betty/Olympic arena designed for both hockey and basketball: Women's games would almost always be in the smaller arena, giving it better home ice. BB could be in any of three courts: Betty, 6000 seat, or the Ralph, depending on the scope of the game. The Ralph already has the compressor system for more ice. The men's team could practice in the 6000 seat arena, if the main Ralph was needed for concerts. The number of concert dates would greatly increase without interfering with hockey practice. The Ralph could more easily host multiple events concurrently - like state tournaments (hockey and BB) while still hosting UND hockey. The Ralph could host more youth tournaments and hockey camps. Video boards and better vendors in the new arena, relative to the Betty means much more sales. The Ralph becomes even more of a destination center, increasing the likelihood of an attached hotel.

So now UND will be joining a new hockey conference within weeks. The new hockey conference doesn't give a sh*t about the Sioux name. The political naivete of this board is beyond belief. The political establishment in North Dakota (Republican and Democrat) want to get rid of the name. The populist and tea-party people - including Carlsen - despise the backroom dealings that forced the political establishment to kill the Sioux name.

Higher math and logic obviously isn't your forte. BTW 2^5 == 32. (That will go way over your head, so why try.) Excuse Kelley all you want - the emails to the NCAA and the conversation with Emmert the day before the press release, Douple's accusation, in your pinheaded mind, Kelley will always be heroic. Anything to rid UND of the Sioux name, or Alice Hofferth, is entirely ethically justifiable as far as your ethics go. The only reason Kelley isn't out of his job is because Kelley can implicate a whole lot of people - Hoeven, Goetz, the SBoHE - in the deal that the people were never supposed to hear about: the Sioux nickname was always a target among the political establishment. The lawsuit settlement was always a sham. The political establishment underestimated the people: it never dreamed that Spirit Lake would come through or that Carlson would take action. The political establishment - now mainly Hoeven - can't afford for the real truth to come out. That's why Schafer had to come out today against further state action against the nickname: the moderate Republicans don't want Kelley to implicate Hoeven in the whole nickname charade that was played by the SBoHE and Goetz. Hoeven's repuation has to be protected, so the nickname has to go. The people of North Dakota, be it Spirit Lake, Standing Rock, or the general population never had a choice in this matter. Hoeven, Conrad, Pomeroy, Dorgan, and the SBoHE preordained that the nickname effort would fail. Those leaders are the true villains in this tale, not just Kelley.

If UND was offered by the WAC and accepted, the only option for Montana schools for FBS and for a peer academic conference would be the WAC. Eventually, the Montanas would go to the WAC. The Big Sky can't afford to let UND go to the WAC to help stabilize it, so UND moving would spoil the Big Sky's FBS hopes. A UND conference with Denver, Idaho, Montana, Montana State, Utah State, and Seattle is a type of dream conference, both athletically and academically, that nobody could possibly have envisioned happening even one year ago. The Texas/Louisiana schools wouldn't be ideal, but those schools do emphasize athletics, unlike some of the Big Sky schools. It would be a much better basketball conference than the Sky, so recruiting would be better. UND would likely get drilled in football for a while, and we'd have to have some major facility upgrades and donors would really need to step up. Coaching-wise, Lennon would almost certainly consider coming back as it would be a step up from FCS. There's a possibility that this whole nickname fiasco could be another wonderful thing that happened to UND: it's not all gloom and doom as most are saying. Bad things often happen for a reason: to create something no one thought possible.

If the WAC is saying in the background that they would accept UND, then there isn't any risk. If the WAC wouldn't accept UND, then it would probably be prudent to give into the Big Sky demands.

The whole Big Sky situation is a bluff, intended to scare the last remaining nickname supporters into abandoning the nickname. The Big Sky Presidents absolutely do want to get rid of the Sioux name, but they want UND to stay so they can have dual FBS/FCS leagues if the WAC falls apart. Kicking UND out would be a major blow to that goal. If the nickname was such a big deal, the WCHA would be threatening UND with an eviction notice right now. If the nickname was such a big deal, the WAC would never have taken in UND as an associate member. If the nickname was such a big deal, even the Great West wouldn't have associated with us. The media has never ever asked an opinion of another conference commissioner about the Sioux nickname, other than a commissioner that would work for Robert Kelley. The media, if it would pull it's head out of its ass on this issue, could ask real commissioners like the WAC why it accepted UND as an affiliate. Ask the WCHA why it is not threatening eviction. Ask the Sunbelt Commissioner, Wright Waters, about the issue. Ask the Southland, or ask the MVC. The media simply accepts the word of the Summit Commissioner and the Big Sky Commissioner. When the Summit Commissioner later states that the whole Sioux nickname issue was just a charade to get UND to change the nickname, the media accuses Douple of lying and sides with Kelley. The NCAA does not threaten a school's membership, even if that school still has an Indian nickname that has not been officially blessed. The Big Sky would be consistent with NCAA policy if it didn't allow UND to host during conference tournaments, which is what Fullerton has stated the likely result would be if the nickname is retained. Anything beyond that goes well beyond NCAA policy. The NCAA's emails between Kelley and Emmert show a pattern of tampering, which is politically embarrassing to the NCAA when there are huge other scandals that the NCAA should be concerned with.

In order for the Big Sky to have a position, it would need to have voted. The nickname concern expressed by the Sky, however serious, is not a policy. Fullerton has denied a vote has occured and denied that there is a formal policy, while the NCAA states the Big Sky has a policy. The only person stating that the Big Sky has voted and has a policy has been Kelley.

June 16, 2011 NCAA President Emmert to UND President Kelley in an email: "Dr. Emmert would like to have a phone conversation with President Kelley today. Please let me know if this would be possible and what time would work." A UND spokesman says the conversation was about the upcoming meeting in Indianapolis. But the next day, the NCAA issues this press release: NCAA Press Release on SIoux Nickname, June 17th 2011 The NCAA press release includes faulty information: the Big Sky hasn't voted on any sanctions according to Big Sky Commissioner Fullerton. Yet the NCAA says it has. Where did Emmert get this erroneous information? What's with the local press? Aren't they ashamed that they didn't pursue the information themselves, but relied on Al Carlson to hand it to them?

There are other conference commissioners that will clearly state - a least in private - that a nickname issue would not be insurmountable. Unless there is something in it for them (the other conference commissioners), they will not state that in public, so as not to anger the NCAA.

Having been vilified on this forum for suggesting that Kelley and the NCAA have been in contact with each other, the truth comes out that affirms what I wrote: Hmm.... noted activist Sharon Carson forwards the note to Provost Paul LeBel, who in turns forwards the note to the NCAA, on behalf of Kelley. Not like Kelley was forwarding anything from Jody Hodson or Spirit Lake, but Sharon Carson: the author of like 20 anti-nickname letters to the Herald. Kelley has done the same damn thing with the Big Sky that he did with the Summit League Presidents and Commissioner: gained a statement from the Commissioner threatening UND's athletic membership due to the nickname, when both conferences would still accept UND even with the nickname. If that's not grounds for dismissal, not sure what possibly could be. And yet most of this board is in denial. Kelley's been playing the NCAA against us all the time, and most of this board wants to trust him and his double-dealing ways?

Some of us actually read the news. Everything stated in what you quoted is freely available in the media. Look it up.

Strange how none of the previous tirades have addressed the core issue of this thread: Kelley claimed in the media that their was a Big Sky vote against UND's nickname. Fullerton adamantly denied that, and stated that any vote regarding UND would be on the right to host. The NCAA has claimed the Big Sky has passed a resolution identical to it's own on the nickname. Those are the facts, and nobody has refuted those words from either Kelley or Fullerton or the NCAA. Cleary, someone has misinformed the media and the NCAA. It's either Fullerton or Kelley. Stick your head in the sand all you want, either Kelley lied or Fullerton lied. Kelley could have taken the ethical high road like Clifford would have done and reported the facts: instead he chose to launch an all-out political attack to get his way. In this thread, I have never ever denied that the Sioux nickname wouldn't have extremely serious consequences to the athletic department. If the Big Sky banned UND from hosting post-season events, that would be a major blow. There is absolutely no denying that. But having a President with ethical issues is equally a major blow.

Sic, to declare that membership is a threat based on that letter is arrogance on your part. John Roberts and Ruth Ginsburg read the same documents, yet arrive at vastly different conclusions. Fullerton is stating that UND will potentially be subject to the same Big Sky sanctions that the NCAA imparts: the inability to host playoff games. To date, the Big Sky has not enacted any policy, which totally contradicts Kelley's statements to the press.

Says the simpleton that can't process multiple-layered information and must always yield to conventional thought and peer pressure. For people like you, I will distill the facts down: FACT: Fullerton stated that no Big Sky vote has been taken on the Sioux name. Fullerton further stated that any vote would be if Grand Forks can host any Big Sky tournament. Fullerton denied that UND's membership is in jeopardy. Outright Lie by Kelley: Kelley has stated UND's membership in the Big Sky is under threat, unless the nickname is changed. Kelley has stated that the Big Sky Presidents have voted, or at least so he heard, and the vote happened while he wasn't in the meeting. NCAA statement was false: The NCAA press release from Bernard Franklin's office stated that the Big Sky's policy was aligned with its own. Where in the world did the NCAA get that information? Could only have been Kelley or his administration. Bernard Franklin's office has caused embarrassment to the NCAA, because it listened to the wrong person. Fullerton's letter: The letter was about why Grand Forks wouldn't be able to host conference tournaments. Fullerton probably never intended that letter to be disbursed to the media, but only to the SBoHE and Legislature through Kelley. The key people for the future are the local media, who consider themselves very sophisticated but couldn't solve a multi-level problem to save their life. The chance that Tom Dennis and Mike Jacobs actually authorize investigative journalism that could potentially cause Kelley his job is a joke. Both Dennis and Jacobs have defended Kelley as if he is some type of high priest or something. (In Jacobs' case, an academic bureaucrat is the pinnacle of spiritual success, so that priest characterization is accurate). Kelley is just a man with his own faults, like everyone else, and Kelley wants the name gone, dammit. If anyone thinks that Kelley can lead UND into a post-Sioux era, that is delusional.

The facts have been laid out, and Kelley's inconsistencies stick out like a sore thumb. Must be tough if you have an emotional attachment to Kelley, but life is full of surprises and people disappointments: deal with them. My background is in highly hazardous chemical manufacturing. In that environment, layer after layer of precautions are designed, checked, and verified. The most difficult issue are people issues: especially liars. In my world, liars tell lies that kill people and harm society. I have zero tolerance for liars. In the academic world maybe, liars are unfortunately tolerated. If you have a problem questioning Kelley's ethics, you have a problem.

Douple's original story about the nickname preventing UND from gaining admittance to the Summit League was always contrived. The nickname has been unfairly vilified for years, and sooner or later people began to believe it. As Carlson stated, a now open dirty little secret is that certain members of the SBoHE always wanted the nickname gone. The SBoHE and Chapman hatched the nickname scheme with Douple, with Kelley complicit in it. Since Douple's continued employment relies on NDSU's support at Summit President's meetings, Douple couldn't go out and expose the whole story, only the part about Kelley being involved. The SBoHE would have demanded Douple's scalp if Douple told more. Many of the SBoHE members probably never knew about any fix, including Shaft and Espegaard. One of the reasons that the nickname vote was so lopsided in the legislature was that legislators were so outraged by SBoHE nickname fix. That as well as the Chapman situation has totally antagonized the legislature toward the SBoHE. The expenses that the Big Sky is concerned about are potential for UND to host a post-season tournament. Since there is often only five days to purchase a airplane ticket, there wouldn't be any cheap fares. For regular conference games, the air expenses are much much less, as those travel arrangements are made months in advance. For Fullerton's dream of an FBS/FCS conference to happen, UND has to be part of the conference: nickname or not.

Added a few more lines about the information fed to the NCAA. How could the NCAA sent out a press release stating that the Big Sky has a policy, and not even check with the Big Sky? The Big Sky could have clearly answered that no such policy existed. Is the NCAA so quick to send out press relases, that it doesn't even check facts? Or did the NCAA want to bully the Big Sky into implementing one? Kelley's resignation is imminent.

Are North Dakotan's really that gullible to fall for Kelley's fables? Why are so many normally reasonable on this board believing Kelley, when Kelley has purposely betrayed UND athletics in the past in order to oust the Sioux name. If Kelley had a similar reputation with money as he does with the Sioux name, Kelley would have swindled you all out of your fortunes. But the media and North Dakotan's are allowing Kelley to swindle the Sioux name out of our legacy. Wake up people. Demand integrity in our leadership and demand answers from the media. FACT: Douple has accused Kelley of conniving a story about the nickname to prevent UND from gaining Summit League affiliation. Douple was double-crossed by Kelley, so Douple had motivation for making the accusation. If Kelley hadn't denied the rumor, Kelley would have had to resign. To be revealed: If Douple had further implicated the SBoHE and NDSU leadership in the Summit fiasco, Douple would have been fired, as the SBoHE is also Douple's boss. FACT: Kelley has gone on radio and stated that the Big Sky Presidents have voted on the Sioux name. Fullerton has emphatically denied that this has already happened. In fact, Kelley has said through a spokesman that the Big Sky Presidents voted, unbeknownst to him (Kelley), so Kelley heard it second hand. Someone is lying again. FACT; Fullerton wants to add Idaho and Utah State to the Big Sky, and then go to two divisions: one FCS and one FBS. Every single school in the Big Sky would be needed for this goal to be accomplished. UND's membership is absolutely vital to this goal. FACT; The biggest issue prior to the Big Sky meetings was the fate of the conference tournaments: would it be on campus or would it be in a secondary location like Las Vegas? Fullerton wanted campus locations. Numerous Big Sky Presidents have objected to traveling to certain locations on short notice: like Grand Forks, where fares are outrageous with less than a weeks notice. FACT: Fullerton has stated that UND may not be able to host conference tournaments: (To be revealed: ostensibly because of the nickname but really because of the economics of the fares.) The Big Sky Presidents may vote on this issue this fall. FACT: Kelley himself has said that the Big Sky Presidents didn't make a big issue out of the Sioux name, while he (Kelley) was present. FACT: The media has not quoted a single Big Sky President to verify anything that transpired at the Big Sky meetings. FACT: All the information we have from the Big Sky is from Kelley and from Fullerton, but even those versions differ from each other. FACT: Not a single Big Sky school has an anti-nickname measure like Minnesota. In order for these Presidents to even vote on such a matter, most would want and need authorization from their own schools and government. FACT: The media campaign that Kelley has launched is straight from a political attack manual. FACT: No one in the media has even asked basic questions: like did Kelley have input into Fullerton's letter. FACT: The Big Sky has no policy on Indian nicknames, even after the meeting. FACT: The NCAA stated in it's press release that the Big Sky had a nickname policy that agreed with its own. FACT: The NCAA received faulty information somewhere. How embarrassing for such an esteemed organization. Who fed the NCAA faulty information? That person is in big big trouble. Who could it be? Trusting Kelley is a mark of shame on this University and on us.

Teeder: Are you the very same sports journalist who recently wrote an opinion piece supporting Kelley's position? Does that mean that your journalistic integrity and standing relies on Kelley and other's statements? Good luck with that.

What I've been saying for a week: