82SiouxGuy

It is possible that they could plead to a lesser offense, although that is less likely since they all seem to have admitted to the crime to investigators. Those admissions should help them with sentencing, getting them less than the max penalties. But charges are often reduced in plea deals. The school should deal with what actually happened in the case, not what kind of deal the lawyers can work out. The players committed a crime, and yet Gene Taylor has now proclaimed that they will not be suspended.

The NFL won't care much about this issue. They are more concerned with substance abuse and violence related issues. If people perform on the field they normally get an opportunity. Other businesses will avoid these players. Businesses in banking, financial services and other financially related businesses will consider this a major issue. Other businesses may also reject their applications as soon as they find out about the issue. Forging signatures and fraud are considered significant by many businesses, no matter what Bville believes. Of course Bville is only worried about the on field product, so they don't care about the other issues. I also consider interfering with an election a major issue.

I don't know if he starts, but he is the second leading tackler on the team after 2 games.

I am a little surprised that we haven't heard at least a little more from the President of the school. He seems to be a bright guy. He has to know that this doesn't look good for the school, and that it isn't going to get better as long as they appear to do nothing.

I'm telling you that the average person on the street doesn't pay attention to every detail. They didn't listen to the press conference. Many of them don't care if they have been punished within the team. The average person on the street knows that a bunch of NDSU players committed a crime. They know that NDSU is treating the crime like it isn't a big deal even though it is a serious crime. They know that the players were not suspended, even though NDSU has suspended a lot of other players for equal or lesser crimes. They heard about the crimes, and the fact that NDSU wasn't going to suspend them on the same day, so they assume that NDSU heard about it that day. The PERCEPTION is that NDSU was didn't want to lose the players because they were playing a higher division team and that NDSU cares more about winning football games than doing what is right. The average person on the street in North Dakota are ultimately the people that own NDSU, and if they get upset enough they may demand that something is done. This isn't the type of story that North Dakota residents like seeing on ESPN and other national media.

The fact that the announcements were made the week of the CSU game is what makes it suspicious to most people. Most people don't have any idea about when he knew anything. The AG made an announcement on Tuesday, and Bohl held his press conference on Tuesday. Therefore the average citizen on the street believes that Bohl was reacting to the AG announcement. That is why the general impression is that he was protecting his players so he could win this particular game and that is the impression I am talking about. Most people in North Dakota aren't getting into all of the details. They know that NDSU players committed a crime and the school is not doing anything publicly to punish them, even though NDSU has punished players that have committed other players that may have committed a lesser crime.

Mussman benched 2 players for the first game because they skipped a class. If that is the standard that the coach is setting I would expect that someone that admitted to a Class A Misdemeanor would get that or more. At least 1-3 games suspended. If this is a second or third offense the suspension would be longer, and if the crimes were serious enough they should be dismissed from the team. Then the coach could decide whether all of the suspensions would be served at the same time or if they would be spread throughout the rest of the season. There are several problems with how NDSU has handled this issue. First, Bohl has a history of reacting quickly. This time he decided to wait for the courts. It was especially questionable because the team was getting ready to play up against a FBS program. Second is the attitude that this isn't a serious crime. The North Dakota Legislature must have believed that the crime is fairly serious if they made it a Class A Misdemeanor. This is a case of forging legal documents and interfering with the election process. It is definitely a serious crime. Third is the fact that Gene Taylor has now declared that the players will not be suspended. He is trying to make them out as victims, even though they have reportedly admitted to investigators that they committed the crime. Not only are they criminals, they are either lazy or stupid or both. Taylor announcing that this isn't a big deal and that they won't be punished any further is a slap in the face to the people of North Dakota at a time when higher education is already under a microscope. That is a problem that could hurt all of higher education because it adds fuel to the fire for people like Al Carlson who want to bring higher education down a few pegs.

The Alerus Center doesn't make the policy about student tickets. The Athletic Department makes ticket policies. UND is renting the building and they are in charge of all ticket policies. The problem is that students often pick up tickets and don't use them. That can leave a bunch of open seats in the student section at the same time that they have quit giving away student tickets. You can't give away more tickets than seats, because there will be games where all of the students or almost all of them show up. Then you have more bodies than seats available. If that happens during a game where the other tickets also sell out you have huge problems with people in the crowd and potentially with the fire department. It would be nice to have a problem where we have too many people in the building. But people running facilities have to make plans to prevent that from becoming a problem.

You read right. Taylor thought that a lot of people said mean things about the players, and it hurt their feelings, so that should be enough penalty for them. All of the accused players admitted to investigators that they forged signatures on the petitions, and then signed the affidavit stating that they believed the signatures to be actual signatures. They have all been charged with a Class A misdemeanor, one step below a felony, and Taylor believes that they have suffered enough. This is going to cause a great deal of trouble with Carlson and the Legislature. NDSU is going to continue to garner negative publicity, much more than they would if they had actually given them a public penalty. They have created a perception that winning football games is more important than the law or the legal process. The issue isn't going to go away for a while, and will continue to be brought up for a long time. But Taylor thinks it should just go away. I don't know what fantasy world he lives in, reality says this isn't close to over.

People have been saying mean things about them. That is more than enough penalty according to Gene Taylor. They didn't deserve to have all of those mean things said, they only forged hundreds of signatures on legal documents and defrauded the state of North Dakota. Bohl is now following the orders of his boss. Anything goes for Bison football players as long as no one gets hurt or exposes themselves.

Yes, it does happen that way for a lot of college students, not just athletes. But there are also cases where a company will hire athletes on purpose for whatever reason. And because of the other issues associated with this employment, I'm sure that someone will at least ask about how they were employed or why the company hired so many football players.

That's true. But it is interesting that 13 current or former NDSU football players were working together. It might be perfectly innocent, but it will be reviewed considering the circumstances.

We now know where the line is drawn at NDSU. Committing fraud against the state of North Dakota is not a serious crime according to Gene Taylor. Forging hundreds or even thousands of signatures is considered a minor issue. Anything less than a felony is only a problem if it involves alcohol, sex or violence. Even those may not be a problem if the team needs the player. Honesty and honor are not a concern for the athletic program. After all, the record of the football team is the most important thing at NDSU. If the players feelings are hurt by mean people talking about the crime, then the players have suffered enough and don't need to be punished any further. This has reached a point where it is embarrassing to the entire state. But at NDSU all is well as long as they continue to beat low level FBS teams in football.

The sad part is that, unlike your scenario, it was possible for them to earn the bonus without doing anything illegal. They probably wouldn't have gotten the bonus every day, but you can certainly get 80 signatures in a day without forging them. You just need to be in the right spot and be good at talking to people. Getting signatures on a petition is not always an easy job, but it isn't rocket science. It mainly takes persistence.

This line was also added to that story:

It also wasn't just a few signatures. 30-40% for one and about 50% for the other. I don't know how many days they worked, but that could add up to a lot of signatures.

Well, it was $10 for each day, that could add up to a few hundred dollars if they worked(?) enough days.

New article in the Forum says that 10 of the 15 are current NDSU players and 3 are former players, http://www.inforum.c...group/homepage/. Interesting paragraphs:

I didn't say you were wrong, I said your point was meaningless. You grabbed a trivial part of the issue. The process was working. The people that were saying that they had been charged were going by media reports that were tied to the AG's statement. Maybe the better way to state it would have been that those people were being charged, or that they were in the process of being charged, instead of that they had been charged. It is all meaningless now that the process has been completed. And I don't think Scott commented either way on your point, so I'm not sure why you are trying to drag him in on your side.

The official charges had already been drawn up and were in process when the AG made the announcement. It just took longer than normal to process because of the change in which office was handling the complaints. So your point was meaningless. The charges were in place as of Tuesday.

No. But it sounds like it was a procedural issue. The AG drew up the charges and announced them on Tuesday. But because of the level of charge, the charges were better placed in Cass County court by the Cass County States Attorney. That took a couple of days for the Cass County people to process and get into the court system. Your point is meaningless. The charges were in process and they have been officially charged.

9 of the people officially charged are current members of the NDSU football team and 3 are former members of the team. 12 out of 15 people charged are affiliated with the program.

I would guess that at least a majority of the posts on this topic have been in response to you and a couple of your fellow Bvillers. If you hadn't spent so much time on this board trying to tell us that this wasn't so bad, the topic wouldn't be at 19 pages. Most people seem to be questioning the inconsistency of putting off this decision when Bohl normally responds very quickly. It looks suspicious, which is what many Bison fans are saying, not just UND fans. I haven't seen a lot of people saying what kind of punishment should be given, or even a lot of anger from people posting on this forum, just questioning why nothing has been done now when that doesn't fit the pattern that Bohl has set. It appears that Bohl is more concerned about winning the games then about setting the right example for the players. I haven't made any comments on what kind of punishment should be given, my main point in posting on this topic has been to refute the idea that this isn't important because all they did is "fake a few signatures". Forging signatures is a big deal. Doing so on legal documents is a bigger deal. Interfering with an election by forging signatures is a major deal. A significant number of Bvillers continue to downplay the crime. This is at least as bad as a person exposing himself, times 8 because we have 8 players being accused. If it wasn't a similar level crime then the Legislature wouldn't have made them the same level. No one was physically harmed, but people were harmed by this act. A company spent $145,000 on this project and these people ended any chance of the project being successful. Other people put a lot of time, energy and money into the projects. This isn't shoplifting, or a speeding ticket, or a minor in possession. This is a serious matter.

Again, read the title of the forum. Community Topics of interest at UND, in Grand Forks, and in North Dakota. No politics, please. Voter fraud in North Dakota by NDSU football players would be a topic of interest in North Dakota. It is on web sites all over the country, so it is more than just North Dakota news. The better question is why do you keep bringing up Ralph Engelstad in this discussion and in many others? Ralph isn't relevant to this topic. Obviously you hate Mr. Engelstad and everything he did in his life.

I guess that wasting way over $100,000 of an employer's money isn't a big deal either.