82SiouxGuy

Didn't you see my post above? Almost all schools lose money on athletics. Less than half make money on hockey, and that is one of the more profitable sports on campus. If they were in it for the money they are doing it wrong. College athletics are a completely different business model than a for profit business like a Jr. hockey team or a sporting goods store. Most schools would be happy if the athletic department was at break even. The colleges benefit by using it as an activity for students, using it as a marketing tool, and using it to attract donations from donors which are often alumni. And not all the donations end up in the athletic department.

They are in business to make money. That isn't the main goal for a college team. And the college teams have expenses that a Jr. team doesn't, like scholarships for the student-athletes. I would guess that those expenses are higher for a college team than any similar educational expenses would be for the Jr. team.

I'm not sure what your point is. As tSic mentions, you are comparing apples to oranges. I'm pretty sure that the Minnesota Wild makes more money than either UND or the Lincoln Stars.

People choose colleges for a lot of reasons. A big one that you didn't mention is field of study. But there are a lot of similar opportunities. A lot of students in the Twin Cities want to go to school out of town, but within a certain range. They could choose from UND, NDSU, SDSU, USD, St. Cloud, Duluth, Mankato, Southwest Minnesota, plus all of the smaller schools like Moorhead, Concordia, St Johns, etc. If they want to go into teaching, or business, or another similar major, then other factors enter into the discussion. They would probably get similar financial aide from many of the schools I listed. A lot of kids want to go somewhere they can have some fun. Attending sporting events can be a major social event for the students. And as some of the other posts have noted, having successful sports teams help get the potential students attention. So having sports isn't the most important factor for attracting students, it is an important factor.

Being in the red is very common in college athletics. From http://californiawat...sing-money-4121: That is out of 120 programs.

Is the membership surprised, or are individual administrators surprised? The representatives of the members are the school presidents. I would guess that fewer of them are surprised by anything that the NCAA does than the lower level administrators.

From this source, http://www.sportsfinancial.org/Resources/Documents/NCAA%202011%20%20NHL%20Educational%20Document.pdf

Thanks, homer. I knew the numbers were out there but didn't have a lot of time available to go find it.

The fact is that schools use advertising on sports broadcasts to attract new students. But again, I don't have time to go and find the numbers to try and satisfy some anonymous poster on the internet. The numbers are out there and you can find them yourself.

Do your own research, I don't have time to go find all of the numbers. I can tell you from looking in the past that most of the top hockey programs are profitable. That includes the obvious schools like UND, Minnesota, Wisconsin, Denver, Boston College, Boston University, Maine, etc. Nebraska-Omaha dropped football to move up to Division I because they were losing money in football and saw the opportunity to make more money in hockey (they didn't get to share in Division I proceeds as long as they were Division II). More than half of Division I football programs lose money, including most FCS programs. Only the top programs like the top half of the Big 10 and the top half of the SEC make large amounts of money on football.

The school uses sports to market the University, especially in the Twin Cities. So yes, they would probably lose students. I don't work for UND so I don't have specific data. However, I have had friends that live in the Twin Cities whose children became interested in UND because of watching Sioux-Gopher hockey games. Without that they would have had little or no interest or awareness. Usually the parents are originally from this area, but not always alumni.

And yet it's one of the few sports that is profitable for the NCAA and for many of the schools that play it.

Nice, broad statements since you don't know who most of the people here are or what positions they have had over time. And it doesn't take into account the fact that the issue has evolved some over time. Dave and Fletch have made some outrageous statements on the issue that very few other people have even come close to duplicating, and they don't accept actual facts that are presented. Continually saying that it would be better to let the athletic department be shut down rather than change the nickname deserves some opposition.

Wow, Dave. You just insulted hundreds of schools all in one post. That must be a record. Congratulations! Oh, by the way, does that mean that UND sold its soul in 1930 when it changed the nickname from Flickertails to Sioux? They turned their back on their heritage, and someone once said that was the ultimate display of dishonor. I don't know how you could ever support a school that would do that.

It's funny that so many other schools have changed their nickname over the past 30 or 40 years because of Native American issues, at both the high school and collegiate levels, and they survived quite well without "selling their souls". I have a great deal of confidence that UND could do as well. If your soul is involved with a sports nickname maybe you ought to examine your life to see whether your priorities are in the right place.

That is probably about right. And some more will sign between now and September 1.

Or maybe teams didn't want to burn a full year of a rookie contract for a couple of games. I don't know if he'll sign or not, but just because he hasn't signed yet doesn't mean that he doesn't have opportunities.

The local Chippewa tribe gave Central Michigan permission to use the name right away. I don't think that the NCAA is OK with the different things that happen at Central Michigan or the activities at Florida State. But they are living up to the policy they set up. At some point in the future the NCAA will take their next step and eliminate the rest of the Native American names, in part because of activities like you mentioned.

I went back and checked the letter and it spells out your answer. So they could wear the warmups for the morning skate as long as they were not around during the game itself.

They wouldn't have to forfeit to Western Michigan if they wore them the day after the game. Maybe the NCAA staff didn't notice. Maybe they only planned to enforce for the game itself. Maybe UND got permission. The letter that was sent to UND said that if anyone affiliated with UND was seen with a logo it could result in a forfeit.

Dell could sign now without leaving school. The NHL season is done. I don't know when the deadline is for rosters in the AHL, but it is probably pretty soon. So he could sign a contract and not report until next season.

My guess is that they would have allowed the game to be played rather than make a scene. After the game it would be announced that the game was a forfeit. I don't think they would have allowed the entire regional to finish if the violation was in the first game.

Yes. Anything shown by any of the official traveling party, including the band and cheerleaders, could have been considered a flagrant violation. So warmups would have definitely been considered a violation.

Only someone with a warped sense of priorities would say they want their Fighting Sioux team or no team at all. That is exemplified by your unbelievable theory that it won't be the same team just because it has a different nickname. I don't know anyone else that has the same theory. I grew up rooting for the University of North Dakota and I will continue to root for UND, no matter what their nickname is. Thanks for the last word. If only it were permanent.

You can trust your faith. I will trust attorneys that I've talked with and trust my experience and knowledge of the legal system. They all tell me that what has happened with the NCAA is perfectly legal, and that the Spirit Lake case is weak.