Sioux-cia

1. I agree, it's a crazy law. 2. I don't believe society should pay for idiots decisions either but we do. 3. Me, too. 4. As a woman who, in spite of it all, managed to raise two young men, who, IMO, turned out pretty well, please, tell me how to change the attitudes of young people!! I'll pass it on the them and, maybe, they won't have to dye their hair at an extremely ( ) young age!!!!

Asbestos, lead based paint, flourinated water, mandatory immunizations, government regulated building codes, mandatory education, ........... I'm all for regulations that serve the greater good and for the children's sake.

siouxjoy, how's that chronic respiratory condition you acquired from your mother's second hand smoke doing? Hey, Dad, how about we..... Hmm, oh yeah, you died, lung cancer.

We're cool! As most who know me know, I enjoy a good discussion but when I feel it's turning into a 'insult debate', it's no fun. But, I will admit there are person's on this forum that I don't like mainly because of things they have done 'in the real world'. Sometimes, I just can't help myself and I stoop to doing to them what I don't like done to me!! What!?!?!? I can keep Prp!?!?! Ok then! I will.

There is not limit on how much you can smoke. You can't do it in a public establishment but knock yourself out at home or out doors or anywhere else it's not banned. Lighting a cigarette while driving may become illegal just like texting on your cell phone is becoming illegal in many states. Remember the car load of cheerleaders, (5?6?) who were killed because the driver was texting someone in the car following their's? Yeah, I'm sure the girls made a choice to text vs to live. I don't believe the car they ran into had any fatalities but where was that drivers choice? But, again, I digress. You can drink as much as you want but not in a car. Open container in a vehicle is illegal, you don't have to be impaired or driving recklessly to get cited, points added to your driving record and your auto insurance to go sky high!

1. You can believe what you want but the city will not allow you to raise angus cattle or thoroughbred horses on your private property. In, GF you're not allowed to own more than two dogs per family unit! Someone reported me when my son moved home for a short time with his two dogs because I aleady had one!! AND I have a six foot fence around my lot and a half! 2. Your not wearing a helmet and sustaining traumatic head injures will result in around 4 million dollars for life time medical care. Then there are those nasty home modifications, ridiculous acute rehabilitation costs, and if you're lucky, there are 'supportive employment' costs. Those are just a few of the costs for traumatic brain injury sustained from riding a motorcycle without a helmet. There are more, just don't have the desire to list them. Do you have funeral insurance? If you don't, add $10-15,000 that your family is going to have to shell out of their pockets to bury or burn you. 3. I don't want to live anywhere else either. But, I'm not so naive' that I believe I'm living in a 'free' society. 4. I don't believe that a complete smoking ban would work. Alchohol prohibition didn't work. I just don't want it where it adversely affects people who don't smoke. I've been reading about 'don't like it don't work there, don't go there'. Not so easy for some. One of the best paying jobs for a mom is bartender/bar waitress. She works nights. Dad stays home at night. No exhorbitant daycare costs. You think she's going to go work for a significantly less wage and have less for her famil?. Anyone even suggesting it isn't remembering what their own parents sacrificed for them! How many young adults are driven by what their peers want. In a group of 6, one smokes, so rather than leave that person out, they go to a smoky bar. I know, it's their choice,but it's either go with the flow or stay home when you're a certain age. I'm convinced that the 'common sense' gene doesn't kick in until you're well over 30. Light 'em, smoke 'em, enjoy 'em. Just don't do it in a public establishment or in my home/car.

Thanks for the link!! Good to know that TJ won't have this hanging over him, oh, and for that other dude, too!

No, you're not. But, regardless of your position, you are paying for it.

Another example of policing yourself. MANY children are allergic, fatally in more cases that I can cite, and their schools, daycare centers, athletic organizations ban peanuts when they know someone in their group is allergic.

Many businesses, most noteably health care facilities, already ban their employees from wearing perfume in the work place. I'm allergic to perfume as well. On two occasions in the remote past, my reactions were severe enough to send me home. Oh, and those thirty+ patients I was suppose to see on each of those days, rescheduled. That's called policing your self. Doesn't work everywhere. Don't misinterpret my post. I just wanted to add to your 'tongue in cheek' post.

It amazes me to read that people actually think they have the right to a 'free' society. You don't. I don't. We don't have a 'free society'. This is not anarchy as someone posted. Anarchy is living without laws in a society that governs itself and lives in peace and harmony. Yeah, right! There have been laws that prevent you from doing what you want in and on your own property and in the privacy of your own home since this country became independent. You can't discriminate when renting. You can't have a meth lab on your property. You can't physically, sexually, mentally abuse your family members (or anyone else's for that matter but for the sake of this argument, your family). You can't drive your vehicle in a reckless manner. You can't drink and drive in your own vehicle. You can't drive your own vehicle drunk or high. You can't keep your own farm animals, cows, horses, cattle, etc. in the city on your own property. You can't have dog/cock fights on your own property with your own animals. Get the point? I can't refuse you health care based on your ability or inability to pay. If I can't save your life after you have sustained massive head injuries for not wearing a helmet and riding a motorcycle, your loved ones have the right to sue me. They'll likely lose but not after costing my insurance company, hospital, collegues, me and my family a whole lot more than just time and money. You don't like welfare, medical assistance, medicare? Too bad, you're already paying for it. You do not have the choice to not pay into those programs. You feel smug because you have private insurance? Well, look at it more closely. There's a cap to how much they'll pay for everything! So, who's going to pay when that cap has been reached? A hospital can't throw you out into the street because you can't pay. But you know what? They can and do stop agressive treatment to make you the best you can be, maybe even get you to the point where you can hold a job again. All they have to do is the minimum. Sick as it sounds, hospitals are businesses and they can't afford to take care of anyone for nothing. See that mason jar by the cash register? You know, the one with the picture of the beautiful little child/the young adult/the war veteran? Why do you think it's there? It's not because that person is getting 'free' health care or because their insurance company is paying for all their health care costs. 2nd hand smoke, drunks behind the wheel of a car, riding a motorcycle without a helmet all cost society millions of dollars a day. You can still smoke. You can still drink. You can still ride without a helmet. There are laws that limit your ability to do those things where you can damage someone other than yourself. Quit kidding yourself. The U.S. of A. is not a 'free society' but it's the only country I want to live in. For those of you who are sick of our rules/laws/etc., I'll contribute to Oxbow's fund and help you move away to a 'better place'.

Which brings me back to the questions I asked earlier. The one's you didn't answer pending my answer to your question. I answered it. I await your answers to my questions. Post #145.

So, when people vote, the majority does not speak? Whose fault it that? When I vote, I want my voice heard but I accept the majority vote even if it's not how I voted.

Then you can't blame yourself if this law passes or passed in your community and you can take credit if it doesn't. Campaign hard. In spite of what has been said on this thread, there are more than a 'few, self rightous' against smoking in public businesses. If there were only a few opposed, this reg would not have passed.

Just one more of those darned ol' government agencies putting out a negative message about a little ol' thing like weed.... http://www.nida.nih.gov/Infofacts/marijuana.html

I don't support a ban on smoking. I support a ban on smoking in a public domain where non-smokers health is adversely affected by second hand smoke. I don't support a ban on motorcycles. I support the wearing of a helmet when driving or riding a motorcycle.

Sorry, I don't understand what you're asking.

I was a motorcycle owner. Loved riding down the PCH when I lived in California. I always wore a helmet. It messed up my hair and I looked like ET wearing it but I always wore it. No, I would not outlaw motorcycles. You assume wrong. I stopped riding when I moved to Illinois. I found it boring on flat highways.

You can still smoke. You can still buy tobacco products.

So where do you stand on welfare? Valid question. How long is health insurance going to pay for the brain damaged, the chronically ill (lung disease/heart disease/bladder cancer/premature babies, etc)? Not forever, there is a limit to what private insurance will pay. So, who ends up paying? State medical assistance. How many brain damaged citizens make a salary? For that matter how many citizens with advanced cancer, heart disease, strokes make a salary? State assistance. How much does it cost to nurture the product of someone's choice? Honestly, you don't have a problem paying for other people's right to choose? Do you really believe that anarchy is the answer?

Uhm, did you not see the 'wink'? My comment was made in response to Slamdance's comment. You can no longer smoke in a bar in Fargo. Not fair to smokers who go to bars in Fargo. But no one is stopping anyone from smoking. Smoke your lungs to black goo. That is your right!! Where was all this public outrage before the polling booths opened? How many of you were out campaigning a NO vote to this new regulation? You don't want to be dictated to by what has been described as a "few, self-rightious non-smokers', where were you? Waiting for someone else to carry the torch? How the heck did this pass??

In all of our discussion, I don't recall being abusive to you. I don't agree with your take on the smoking ban and you don't agree with mine. But, telling me to get off my 'high horse' because my opinion differs with yours just shows your frustration and inability to continue discussing the matter civilly. Gotta admit though, this is the first time I've heard public health is a buzz word. It's my reality. The smoking ban is fair. Period.

It is not about MORALITY. It's about PUBLIC HEALTH!

Absolutely!

If your actions didn't affect me or 'innocents', I wouldn't care either. In none of your examples could I see where the consequences of your actions would not affect others. But, one factor that keeps getting overlooked, you can still smoke. You just can't smoke in certain venues. There were bars that became 'theaters' in Minnesota. For a small fee, a patron become an 'actor' and the whole bar scene was suppose to be the 'play'. I think the State has or is going to stop this 'dance around the law' practice. Private smoking clubs may be the answer for smokers.