mksioux

As long as we're on the subject of the military, you should ask these people if they want the nickname changed.

PCM, I have no doubt UND does more to reach out to American Indians than any other school in the region. I was referring specifically to the athletic department. What has the athletic department done for outreach? Having athletes visit the kids, free tickets, and things along those lines would hopefully create young fans with a vested interest who are less likely to be "taught" to be ashamed of the nickname once they go to college.

To say the State was "bought" makes a huge assumption that the majority of North Dakotans are against the nickname and the only reason it still exists is because of Ralph. That's just foolish. That's the name-change crowd just trying to create a boogeyman. They can't accept the fact that the VAST majority of North Dakotans did NOT want the nickname changed BEFORE Ralph's donation. If that's being "bought" then words have no meaning.

I am as big of Sioux nickname proponent as one can be, but for the life me, I can't figure out why this isn't already happening. This should have started 15-20 years ago when the nickname issue really began gaining steam. Anyone with any common sense back then should have had the foresight to see that tribal support would be important in the future for keeping the name. I don't believe ethnic/racial groups have a right to self-identity, but from a practical standpoint, if UND had fostered a better relationship with the tribe(s), we probably would have had a rubber-stamp appeal grant like FSU, CMU, and Utah. If UND somehow gets out this mess, they better not make the same mistake again.

Well, I'd more than happy if he turns out to be anything like David Hoogsteen on the ice.

Here is the story on it from the GF Herald

One issue I've been wondering about that I don't think has been addressed is the conditinos that Skip Longie referred to in his comments earlier in the week. He said there were a "string of conditions" that went along with Spirit Lake's permission to use the name. One of those conditions was to require all freshmen at UND to take a trip to the reservation. My question is, where do these conditions come from? Were they written down? Was it a verbal understanding, and if so, between whom? The resolution itself requires 1) zero tolerance on racist activity (which UND has done), and 2) to "begin the process of establishing a cultural awareness course for all students" I have to think there are plenty of cultural awareness courses available for all students at UND. Did it mean a required course? Did it mean specific to American Indians? And if it is a required course, what does "begin the process of establishing" mean? All of these terms are quite subjective. And I see no mention in the resolutino for the other "string of conditions" that Mr. Longie was referring to, including the required trip to the reservation. This is an honest question. I'm not saying there wasn't a separate agreement, I'm just curious as to what that was if it existed. Another question I have with the 2000 resolution, is that Spirit Lake approved the nickname and the "present logo." The resolution passed in December 2000, before the teams started using the new Bennett Brien logo (that wasn't until October 2001, I believe). However, hadn't the new logo been introduced and approved as of December 2000? Which logo(s) does the resolution refer to?

No, but it pisses off Whitey, and that's what truly motivates him.

Don't let the door... I hear Berkeley is pretty nice this time of year. And I'm sure you'd fit in real well there.

Leprechauns may not be "a people", but the Irish certainly are. Notre Dame's nickname is "Fighting Irish" not "Fighting Leprechauns." Their logo is a caricature of a drunken, brawling Irishman. And they have a mascot. The only difference is that the Irish aren't hyper-sensitive. And neither are the vast majority of American Indians...just the ones that have been brainwashed by their white elitist professors. Of course you will never get it.

Turtle Mountain Tribal chair: UND has done 'a good job' It appears that reports that Turtle Mountain would draft a resolution opposing UND's appeal were premature. Yes, the Turtle Mountain tribe is Chippewa, but at least it's something.

If we've learned anything in this mess, it's that words like "honor" and "offensive" no longer have any objective meaning. If someone says they are insulted, it is objectively insulting. Intent, apparently, is irrelevent. And so too is whether a majority of people would find something "honorable" or "offensive." Having said that, I always enjoyed the American Indian dances before the games. Perhaps having more of them would honor? It's difficult to say these days.

Point taken. UND needed to do something more than FSU. I just wish it was put out a little quicker.

Even more reason for the council/mayor not to spend political capital on a tribe that has condemned something that perhaps some of the city's elected officials hold dear.

Good point PCM, I think UND should have gotten their appeal out about a week earlier when the political pendulum was strongly swining it its favor. They waited just long enough to give the activists time to regroup and mount a counter-attack. Waiting even longer to fine tune the details would have been counter-productive.

It's debatable whether a casino would be good for GF. There are valid points on both sides of the issue. The council is lukewarm about it. The public is lukewarm about it. All things being equal, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that an issue very important to many people in GF wouldn't tip it one way or another. But, like I said, it's a moot point because both tribes that would be most impacted by a casino -- one postively, one negatively -- both oppose the nickname (or will come Friday). And thanks for the encouragement. I'll do my best to GROW UP in the coming years.

I think an assumption is being made the UND didn't do what the resolution requested. Rather than quoting Longie, please quote the exact language in the resolution that UND didn't do. This is an honest question, because I don't see any obligations of UND other than a "zero tolerance" policy toward racist behavior (which UND has done), "to begin the process" of a "cultural awareness course" (which is quite subjective). Is there some other "agreement" I'm not aware of. Again, an honest question.

In theory, I have no problem with denying a casino to a tribe who has opposed the nickname. Face it, Turtle Mountain needs the casino much more than Grand Forks does. Why should we do them any favors? Actions have consequences. That is the reality of the "adult" world. Having said that, the problem is that both Turtle Mountain and (now) Spirit Lake are opposed to the nickname. I would imagine Spirit Lake is very much opposed to a new casino in Grand Forks. So whatever Grand Forks does regarding Turtle Mountain

Spirit Lake general assembly votes to withdraw support of Fighting Sioux nickname

Yea, I know that's what you meant. I was just reinforcing it I guess. I also happen to think it's a reasonable position once all remedies are exhausted to "cave" rather than punishing the athletes. The NCAA policy is much more than changing jersies come playoff time. I don't think it's a sustainable policy. In other words, this policy (as currently applied) and the Sioux nickname can not peacefully co-exist. And yes, many will question whether it's worth "wasting" resources to commence litigation over a nickname. But I do, however, think it's worth fighting regardless of the eventual outcome. If a mere administrative appeal is all that is launched before dropping the name, few will accept the decision and resentment will rightfully abound.

This is exactly what the NCAA intended. I hope the sentiment doesn't change unless and untill all remedies are completely exhausted, including administrative, legal, and political.

I personally don't think nationalities or ethnicities should be able to exclusively control their images, words, etc. However, what I think is undoubtedly much different than what the NCAA decionmakers think, who have said that tribe approval is going to be the primary factor in the appeal. The support of at least one tribe could have, at least, given the NCAA something to hang it's hat on if it were inclined to take UND off the list for other reasons. If there are no tribes left supporting the name, then I just can't envision the NCAA granting the appeal. I think many of you are giving the NCAA too much credit. Just because their decision looks foolish to most people and just because we see all sorts of holes in it, does not mean the NCAA executive committee sees it the same way. I have little doubt that most of the people on the committee have waived bye-bye to reality and common sense a long time ago. In their insulated world on college campuses amongst university administrators and professors, their decision did not go far enough. As I've continued to say, the NCAA will have no problem with the readily apparent hypocricy of giving FSU, Utah, and Central Michigan a pass, while denying UND's appeal. While defending attacks from both sides, they will simply pass responsibility to the namesake tribes.