specifics

North has to stay out of the penalty box shut down Mihulka. Red River is too good for North to play the game a man down. Also North is having trouble putting the puck away as it is, being 5 on 4 won't help that. Red River is going to have to keep the puck deep in North's end or they will also have trouble generating offense. Goaltending. Both teams.

I think some of it might be due to the fact that a lot of the people using this message board are from the East aswell? Whatever the case, Western hockey does deserve some representation even if the number one seed from the West isn't up to par with the number 4 or 5 seed from the East.

NDhockeyRR you make a very valid point. Red River has not struggled to keep the flow of talented players through there system and I don't see any of the Red River coaches "recruting". Any recruiting done is usually on a player to player bases and is more of a joke than an actual offer. I don't think it is very realistic to believe Tyler Klein would actually make the move to Red River, whether he wanted to our not (parents jobs, siblings,...). On the question why some would want to pick him up for juniors it might be as obvious as some of us would like to believe but here it is... Tyler has attended every National Festival making him one of the top 1989 births in the state. In his sophomore season he had 30 total points, ranking in the top 25 in the state. Junior teams are attracted to big, mobile players. Tyler is about 6'0" tall and one of the fastest skaters in the state. Although it may seem Mr. Klein is not keeping up with the other elite players in the state you have to remember hockey is a team game. Unless you have players around you tell help create time and space you're not going to put up much in the area of points, no matter how good you are. It's a simple concept, one guy can't beat five. Now if North can find a line combination that works well with Klein, I'm sure we'll see a lot more points than his 2 in 5.

My point was not that they should not keep scoring against North, of course they should when it's 4-0, 5-0, 6-0, 7-0, 8-0, 9-0, and even 10-0. They should not however rub it in the faces of the players. With about 4 minutes left a south player was called for unsportsmanlike conduct when he skated by Norths bench after a goal and went for high fives. Try and convince me that you'll see that in a Gopher/ Sioux game (4 minutes left, 4-0). Let's say what South did against Wahpeton was justified. Lets say South has been having trouble scoring this season and they were exercising some of there frustrations... Okay. But that's not the case. You don't know how hard those Wahpeton players work in the off-season, and neither do I. Maybe one or two of them worked really hard last summer. A great work ethic for 3 months will not make a Wahpeton into a high caliber team. Does any one deserve to lose 26-0? It was 19-0 going into the third. Have your top two lines sit on the bench and retape there sticks, they should not play. Make 20 passes before a shot, and every shot you take before twenty passes is one crusher. Figure something out. Maybe a South Holy Angels game wouldnt be 26-0. It probably wouldnt. But I want South to know how it feels to be down 10-0 and have Jay Barribal skate by there bench asking for high fives.

Just a thought. I highly doubt coaches take much consideration to how 3rd and 4th liners play against Wahpeton. Thats not when they fight for spots. What South did to Wahpeton is a disgrace to the game and I wish we could send South to the Academy of Holy Angels so they could learn how it feels. On a side note, this type of classless play is uncommon for this group of South players, in my mind at least. Many of the players on North and South are pretty good friends and even when South had the game won at 4-0 with little time to play, when they scored they rubbed it in Norths face. Uncalled for.

It seems as though you have a personal vendetta against Mr. Klenow. Did he take your spot on the select team, or maybe to the National festival? If so take your case to the local gym and exercise your frustration there. Hockeys a sport where, when its good its real good, and when its bad it's real bad. It's one thing to criticize him when he's having success, but to take shots at a KID when he's in a slump thats another thing. Grow up.

Have you ever watched Sidney Crosby play? If so your vision is blurred. Crosby works at both ends of the rink and is the only player on the ice that never gives up on the play. Recchi and Pallfy are the lucky ones, not Sidney. Crosby makes that line what it is, that's why he's leading his team in points. 31 points in 31 games. Ovechkin is two years older than Crosby, technically he is a rookie, but developmental wise, hardly. I've never once heard Wayne Gretzky talk about Ovechkin breaking his records, maybe that tells you something about Crosby. I'll finish this post later.

Inform me please Jloos, when was the last time you spoke personally with the Irmens? Have you ever spoken to an member of the Irmen family? If that was truely the case and you had formed any sort of friendship as you previously hinted, I would doubt you would be so corrupt to go behind there back and bash their family members. It's easy to make an assumption of who you are, by your actions and words Jloos. That is why it is still fact that you are hiding behind your screen name taking cheap shots at people that cannot otherwise defend themselves because of the fact that not everyone in the state can decifer who out of all the Loos' you are.

Who are you to call out specific people on a message board and hide behind your screen name? Lashing out at a player and parent the way you are now is in fact classless. You say personality played a big role in the Sioux recruiting Danny? If you can find me a college team in the nation that wouldnt want Danny on their roster, I'll shut my mouth. But until that happens (never will), I'm going to speak my mind. Have you ever thought that because Danny grew up in Fargo he grew up loving the NDSU Bison, and who was the Bison's greatest rival? The Sioux. He grew up a Gopher fan and that is the reason for his actions twords the sioux. Danny is not only a very talented player, but he carries his team with his work ethic and emotion. Have you ever seen someone get hit from behind before? I have. Get over it, when its an emotional game like that game was it happens, it happens to the best players in the world. Take Todd Bertuzzi for instance. Almost every player in the NHL has forgiven Todd, saying that it happens, it wasnt intended to go that far. I have yet to hear of someone beating the pulp out of him as you would say. You seem to think you know a lot more about the sport than you really do Jloos. On the topic of his celebration. Some people get overly excited when they score. I don't believe Danny is one of these players. I believe in whatever Mr. Danny Irmen does he has a purpose. When he was in the box, the UND student section was all over him, and only God knows what they were saying. And when giving the chance to rub it right back in there face, I don't know many people who would not have done something similar. You seem to be quite the expert in how top notch hockey teams respond to cocky, physical play. Maybe you can tell me the name of the league in which you acquired such knowledge...?

Are you trying to say Prpich did not take stupid penalties last night? If I remember correctly he wrapped his arm around a Gopher players neck in the corner well after the whistle had blown, and he sat two minutes for it. Prpich looked to me to be one of the worst players on the ice for the sioux and his loose mouth did nothing more but motivate the Gophers.

For one. It's Irmen. With an E. Another thing, that "idiot" is the best player on the ice tonight hands down. If I remember correctly, Irmen put Smaby down with authority in the first period. Big tough Smaby.

TopShelf you make a very good point. I was at the game and it did look as though Central was playing a fantastic defensive game. But then as I watched closer it was in fact that Central's forcheck was doing most of the work. Central was all over North in their own zone and with the inexpieranced defense North has they had a lot of trouble making a good breakout pass. With that in mind, whenever North did get a good breakout opportunity they were so worn down from trying to slow the Central attackers all they could do was dump the puck in and get a switch. If North could have solved the problem of breaking the puck out they would have faired much better as from what I saw when Norths top line was in Centrals end they dominated. IMO, North is going to need some players to step up because their top line is almost always matched against the opponents, and the 2nd and 3rd lines for the opposing team have a field day. Also, Central will only be effective if they keep up the hard, physical forcheck. It's still early though, so we'll see.

Thats a very fair analysis. The top three teams are fairly obvious as of right now, and that makes it hard to speculate who will finish 4th,5th, and 6th. Remember EDC records count for nothing if you don't win to games at EDC. It's going to be a battle for that fourth spot and it's gonna be interesting to see who comes out on top out of those middle teams. West Fargo is better than most have thought, and Central is down from previous years. I think the team we know least about is North. We know they have a completely new program and even though they lack depth, who knows where this coaching staff will take them. Each of these teams has there highs and lows and I can't wait until each of them meets.

Asking the question do you think someone will make it big time in a message board where most of the people in here do not know these kids personally is very difficult to answer. For example (these are fictional names and fictional scenarios)- Mike is a fairly big kid, he's 6 feet tall and 180 lbs., he out muscles the smaller players in the league and finds it easy to get to the net and score. His work ethic off ice is however suspect. He would rather hang out with his friends and play video games rather than work on his skating stride and shot release. Tim on the other hand is a small quick forward- about 5'9" 160 lbs. He is hardly fully developed and even though he is a very talented player he is out muscled on the puck and is frustrated he can't find the back of the net like Mike can. Tim's work ethic is second to none, any spare time he has he spends it working on his strength and shot... Which one of those two players do you think will make it big time? An easier question to answer correct? The logic to that is when Tim fully matures like his friend Mike not only will he have the size but he will have the work ethic and all the skills to go along with it. He will only get better and better. Because I know nothing about the work habits of Galbreath or LaDouceur it makes it very difficult for me to give an analysis on how far they will go in the game. Some of the players everyone believes are the best players in the state now, may not be come State Tournement. Best of luck to them.

The first line for Grafton is excellent. The only thing I can see that they could do to improve it is put Zach Miller on the line. With Mohagan being only a freshman he looks out of place at times. Nothing against the player, it just takes time to adapt. Other than that I think teams are going to need to stay out of the box as Grafton's powerplay is the best I've seen in years. Four of Graftons seven goals were on the power play and two more were scored just as a North player exited the box. Let's not forget Grafton crushed North 8-1 last year in the teams first meeting but struggled to beat them in OT the next time. This may be a possibility again as I did see some bright spots in Norths line-up and from what so is the work ethic. I heard after their poor performance against Grafton they put on there workout close and did wall-sits, lunges, push-ups, and ran the bleachers until about 10 at night. Wow. My EDC Dream Team Paul Campell(G)-Tom Campell(G)- Zach Miller(G) Andy Peterson(G) Jarret Galbreath (GFRR) Grant Larson(FS)-Paul Weisgarber(FS)-Marc Mihulka(GFRR) Erick Galt(FS) Danny Wurden(FS) Tyler Klein(FN)-Nick Klenow(FN)-Adam Campell(FS) Tyler Swanson (WF) Ryan Ladoucer (GFRR)

To end all further speculation... I believe anyone in their right mind who was at the game will agree the Red River defenseman had no prayer of stoping Harrie on his breakaway unless he was to do something illegal to prevent his forward process (trip,hook,slash...). With that said, unless the defenseman would have allowed Harrie to skate untouched twords the goal I don't see this penalty shot being avoided unless through some spectacular play the heavans shifted and he dove and swiped the puck away without touching Mr. Harrie. Harrie was past the defenseman, and pulling further when he was taken down. Easy call. Nice goal.

Nowhere in the rule book does it state any such "3 step" rule. What we have here is a Red River fan or player (thus the RR at the end of his name) stating fictional rules to support his team.

What do you mean talent doesn't win championships? This is high school hockey, talent is a huge factor. I can't think of a Grand Forks team that has won the title and not been talented. Talent is the primary factor for success in Grand Forks. If I remember correctly however, it was a much less talented Fargo North team that took a VERY talented Grand Forks Red River team into 5 OT's correct? Maybe because the Fargo North boys had some of those "other variables" your talking about? Because the score sure wasn't close because the teams were equal talent wise. So when you say Grand Forks teams are winning championships because of all these other factors you really have no hard evidence to prove it. I however know that Gopher captain Danny Irmen and fellow Gopher teammate Ryan Potunly were both on that Red River team. They also had a goalie name Nate Zieglemann so it wouldnt be rational to say the game was only close because North had Walski. Red River did not win that game because they had better coaching, were harder working, or had better chemistry. Red River won that game because they were more talented. If they did in fact have better coaching, were harder working, and had better chemistry the score of that game would have been at least 5-0.

My mistake Jack Mickelson. Galt should have most definitly been on that list, I guess I was just thinking of forwards but yes definitly Galt should be included on that list.

It's good to see even those from Grand Forks can reason where I'm coming from. Hopefully some day we can get near the level of MN high school hockey where many cities are vying for the high school championships instead of just two or three teams. But that kind of competition, for now at least, is a ways off. The season starts on Monday and I figured if it there was a time for one last speculative question there is no better time than now so, Who do you think will be in the top 10 for state scoring leaders this year? Any ideas? My thoughts are... (in no particular order) 1. Tom Campell 2. Paul Campell 3. Paul Weisgarber 4. Grant Larson 5. Marc Mihulka 6. Adam Campell 7. Nick Klenow 8. insert west player here 9. insert west player here 10. Tyler Klein

Almost a disgrace to ND hockey? A disgrace to ND hockey would be saying that one city will dominate competition for the rest of eternity... thats a disgrace. Your saying that it is not possible for another city in the state to become dominant for 5-10 years of high school hockey? So your essentially saying ND hockey is not good enough to produce enough quality players and coaching in another city to compete and or surpase Grand Forks? If you ask me, saying such things is a disgrace to North Dakota hockey. You selling the whole state short by saying there will never be enough talent elsewhere to consistently beat the Grand Forks schools. So thank you for selling the hardworking players and coaches from Fargo North, Fargo South, West Fargo, Minot, Bismarck High, Bismarck Century, Jamestown, Wahpeton, Dickinson, Shanley, Williston, Grafton, Mandan, Devils Lake, Bottineau and Hazen short... Cratter said- "Success in the past is an indicator of the future my friend. The majority of those players come out of Fargo because they have a greater population...umm duh. With all those great players you would have thought South would have won more hockey championships than one in how many years. Good thing good players don't make a great team. Chemistry and a bunch of other variables make a great championship team. And as of now the Fargo Schools seem to be lacking. Its HS hockey. They are kids. You could essentially return a core of awesome players and still go nowhere." Your right a majority of these players come out of Fargo because we have a greater population. In that regard don't citites with larger populations usually produce teams better than those with smaller populations? Yes they do. Because the larger population you have to pick from the better your team will be. And good players don't make a great team? Well then, do bad players make a great team? Who does make a great team? Maybe you were trying to say great players make great teams, but I'm not sure. Good players make good teams, sometimes championship teams. The point your trying to make is unclear in your post but maybe I can clarify. With the exception of last year, Grand Forks has won the state championship because they had the most talented team. The majority of the time, in High School hockey, the team that is more talented from back to front will win the game and the championship. This is high school you are correct, but chemistry and "a whole bunch of other variables" play less of a factor than your trying to make it sound like. What are these other factors? Or did you use those words because you don't know as much about the sport as you want everyone to believe you do? It is high school hockey. It isn't Jr. A where players are trying to get division one scholorships or college where players are trying to sign with a pro team. It's high school, a team where your playing with your best friend, and your ego doesnt get in the way because you don't want to end your senior season on a losing team. You play on the third line and you keep your mouth shut because your not a superstar and that doesn't matter to you. You want the team to succeed, so a team of awesome players in high school is going to take you a very long way almost every time. Almost every time...

You are correct, the facts do speak for themselves. And the fact is that because Grand Forks won the championship in 95,96,97,98,00,01,03,04, and 05 does not mean they will win it in 06,07,08,09,10,11... that is a fact. Success in the past does not gaurentee it in the future. We are seeing more and more great players come out of the Fargo area than ever before and I would not be surpised if in the near future Fargo becomes the Grand Forks of old. Some of these players include Danny Irmen, Tyler Magura, Aaron Walski (from GF moved to Fargo as a bantam?), Elliot Okland, Jon Halstenson (criticize him all you want, he is playing Jr. A hockey), Paul Weisgarber (top players in Elite League), Erick Galt (top scoring D in elite leauge). Of course, you can name many more Grand Forks players to move on with success but my point is that more and more are coming from Fargo, and assuming this pace runs true, there will be many more great hockey players to come out of the city. On the Elite One team this year there was two players from Grand Forks. Fargo posted 6 players. On the Elite Two team Grand Forks had 7 players. Fargo posting 10 players. With those facts it seems as though the majority of elite players in the state right now are coming from the city of Fargo.