Brim006

Gotcha, good deal. Sorry about that

Is UND Princess a bot or what's happening right now lol

I would be fine with that, as that would break the trends of the last 6-8 years. Especially with football, it seemed like they actually somehow got worse as the year went on, and some of the lead players actually seemed to regress through the season and even throughout their career at UND... Hockey didnt necessarily have a clear trend of regressing through the season, but they definitely played poorly when it mattered, especially toward in the post season. I havent followed either team very closely the past 2-3 seasons due to no changes being made and seeing the exact same issues happen over and over again. But this year I'm all in and am going to watch any and every game I can. I'll even be making a trip to GF to watch games for both for the first time in at least 4-5 years. No matter how their seasons go this year, I know for the long term the right choices were made and I want to be there to support it and keep in mind that growing pains are real and understandable, even if it's the first full season or so.

Yeah, I was wondering how much those developments outside of town had grown since the south side alone wasn't much. And I would say yes, home ownership is still very important to young familes. Most young families who are a few years into their career and have young kids 1000% want to live in a single family home over an apartment. But it's typically a supply and demand topic, so judging off all the new apartments, and so few new single family homes, that's where my thought of most new residents being lower income most likely but maybe I'm wrong since I didnt get to see all the new building out of town in those other neighborhoods.

Holy smokes that is great, I hadn't heard about those yet, but GF is hitting the nail on the head with those additions, and a bonus of the location!

My young family and I were in GF for a short bit this past weekend for the first time since we moved away to Bis about 6 years ago. We drove around quite a bit to reminisce, to check out changes and to compare to Bis. A few notes - 1 - The UND campus updates are absolutely fantastic...we could not believe how much the main campus has changed and grown but still kept the classic traditional look. What an amazing school and campus it has become. The new athletic facilities on and around memorial are FAR bigger and more impressive than I realized they would be. I can see how UND football is winning more of these recruiting battles. Props to anyone/everyone involved because it really came together phenomenally. 2 - the downtown grand forks development was equally fantastic...we once again could not believe how well things came together and how much bigger and better all of the development ended up being in person than what we had pictured. Everything was clean, lively and busy. We drove around several blocks and didnt really see a single eye sore in any direction. Those upgrades and attractions are going to attract and retain more young families. We found ourselves feeling like we missed out and/or maybe shouldnt have moved away now that it all came together and has so much more to offer. Downtown GF is far better than downtown Bismarck in every single aspect, and it's not even close. 3 - when is scheels going to pull out of the columbia mall to finally just allow it to die all the way off to be sold and used for something else? Scheels having their own standalone building somewhere on the south end would be great, but maybe that isn't realistic? Could the mall be used as a giant food court with bars and resturants with TILT and other indoor turf and batting cages type places? Retail stores are dying even in the highest traffic malls in america. 4 - Grand Forks is similar to Bismarck in that the areas most visible to outsiders ( interstates and main highways) are some of the roughest parts of town. Both cities could do a much better job of maintaining and improving these corridors to better align with what the rest of the community actually looks like. Many people pass through Grand Forks via Highway 2 (Gateway Drive) and form opinions based on that stretch, which doesn’t reflect the city’s true character. While the view from the interstate is somewhat better, it still falls short of showcasing what the Greater Grand Forks area really has to offer. Similarly, Bismarck and Billings seem to leave their interstate corridors looking outdated and uninviting almost on purpose for some reason haha. 5- Despite the huge developments completed downtown and on the UND campus, there seemed to be surprisingly very little growth in the residential areas as far as single family homes go, even on the south end. Is there more development happening to the north or the west anywhere really? After being gone 6 years we were surprised to see how few new homes had been built on the south end compared to the growth and development we're used to seeing in bismarck. I think phase 1 of elk ridge alone in 1 year was more than the entire south end of GF in 6 years. Not to mention the 4-5 other big developments happening in Bismarck. We did see many new apartment complexes though. Are most new residents moving into apartments in GF? Is GF getting more low income new residents than middle+upper class professionals? I know we discussed GF is actually showing some population growth again which is great, but after seeing the pretty stagnent housing build (for the size of GF) and many new apartments, I'm wondering if the majority of that growth is from refugees and "new americans" rather than higher income families like Fargo and Bis seem to be attracting? I'll have to look at median income trends to see what that looks like between the 3 cities to see if that confirms anything or not. 6 - Grand Forks is a great place for a young family to live and is getting really close to offering what Bismarck and Fargo do. I think GGF is just a few indoor facilities away from being on par—with the added bonus of a more small-town, exclusive feel that’s less hectic than what Fargo and Bismarck have become. When we compared it directly to Bismarck as a young family, the deciding factors were the larger indoor museum, the zoo, the indoor science center, the turf bubble dome, and more indoor swimming options. Those amenities ultimately won us over, otherwise we probably would have stayed in Grand Forks. Choice Fitness blows anything Bismarck has out of the water—we miss that place tremendously. The small and crappy YMCA being the main fitness center in Bismarck is hilariously horrible. GF also having a major college in town for events is a big bonus that Bismarck lacks and something we also miss. I’m not sure how realistic a zoo would be for GGF, but I think just a few small additions like that would give GF an even bigger boost than what it seems to have added recently.

2-decade old revival. Love it lol

From what I remember, that was probably worst-case scenario? Easily enough kids to make 2 teams but the lopsided numbers to North made it complicated. Now they will have far too many kids for one program and many will either not join or get cut? Hopefully their JR GOLD team/s has some room.

That's great news. Is that the new potato processor coming to town or something else?

Wow I didnt realize it used to be over 10k. Less than 1/4 of what it used to be even in the 90s, sheesh. That is substantial.

To be fair, the census is typically the baseline for population estimates yes, but it's pretty well known that the 2020 census was a disaster due to covid. The counts got drug out nearly 2 years late, it forced restarting counts midway through, and the questionable results have created many debates about it's accuracy in many different areas due to it's impact on political representative counts in some larger cities and states. But it's still far better than judging by a new apartment complex or gut feel on traffic congestion.

Agreed. But I'm not just comparing with Fargo, I'm comparing with pretty much every other peer city within a 750-1000 mile radius that has been growing substantially in population, economy, household income and everything in between all at levels far above Grand Forks. And other than the good ole boys club actively suppressing new development opportunities to protect their own pockets, I just don't understand how or why it has happened. And the future outlook appears to be even worse. 2025 to 2050 population growth forecasts just in ND, from the ND dept of commerce.

How about this one straight from the North Dakota Department of Commerce. Read through their extensive forecasting study and tell me Grand Forks is doing well compared to any of its peers. I didn't come here to argue this point, I came here to try figure out why it's happening and was curious to who had some ideas or solutions. I thought it was pretty well known and obvious Grand Forks was falling short on capturing any of this local economic growth. And judging by these state forecasts, it's only going to snow ball from here. State Data Center | Commerce | North Dakota Region 8 (Dickinson): +39.96% Region 5 (Fargo): +33.44% Region 1 (Williston): +30.01% Region 7 (Bismarck): +20.68% Region 2 (Minot): +15.00% Region 4 (Grand Forks): +3.18% Region 3 (Devils Lake): −8.17% Region 6 (Jamestown): −9.11%

I don't think anyone has said Grand Forks was going to crumble to the ground. I think most unbiased outsiders are just noticing the obvious stagnant growth it's had despite all of it's peer cities growing and prospering. I love Grand Forks and want to see it prosper, and maybe that means quality over quantity which would be fine too, but the truth is it hasn't really been either. If you want to compare from the 1990s to now. Offical census counts for each peer in 1990 compared to 2020 % growth. Which one stands out? Fargo, ND: 69.81% West Fargo, ND: 159.28% Grand Forks, ND: 18.83% Rapid City, SD: 42.56% Bismarck, ND: 47.32% Sioux Falls, SD: 137.04%

North Dakota population forecast for 2025 and 2030 - Aterio

These 10 year forecasted growth estimates look promising.

Exactly. UND campus growth, older complexes getting torn down. The population data is accurate, and shows little to no new residents, so it's just a fact that it's just housing transitions far more than new resident growth. I would love to say Grand Forks is booming just like F/M, BisMan, SF, RC and other similar areas but its just not at all for some reason. Either way, housing upgrades are a boost to the community so that's good to hear.

What's your point? 119 single family lots? That will only account for about 300 people in a 3-4 year span LOL. That's decimal dust. The data doesn't lie...Grand Forks is not growing, and I'm sorry that hurts your feelings and bias. If one older complex is being torn down anytime soon that will wash out this new addition... those people have to go somewhere, so that will push supply and demand transitions in the apartment and housing market. Any new apartment complexes in GF appear to almost be entirely filled by current locals, or UND students, not newcomer citizens. Upgrading the community housing is always a good thing though, so that's a plus.

Population growth? 4-5 apartment complexes per year? I'm assuming this is just a running inside joke I missed haha. At best GF has been stagnant, and most years actually getting smaller. Which is actually quite the impressive feat figuring all it's largest ND and SD peers are growing 10-25% in this same span. It's almost like Grand Forks is actively pushing to keep people out. I'm not sure how they're accomplishing it.

With the West likely having no contenders, is there anyone from the East that will be able to run with GFC+RR to at least give hope of avoiding the all GF ship yet again? FD, FN, WFS, WF?

What's the scoop on Century kids leaving early or what's the doom and gloom about there? I see they are supposed to be returning 4 of their top 5 scorers from a solid team last year, plus have a returning goalie who posted .930 SV% in 18 games played. And there's no way that's true about the WDA only returning 5 of the top 100 scorers in the state. Century alone has 5...and even if they are leaving Legacy has 4 (1 sounds like he's leaving), Bott 2, Dick 1, Jtown 3, Mandan 2, Minot 5, Williston 2. Of those 24 are you saying you personally confirmed 19 of them are leaving early?

Who are some of the top returning players? Minot losing a few to juniors I hear? GPR and DL have a few young studs but not enough. RR and GFC will reload no problem im sure. How are the Fargo and WF schools looking? Looks like century and Mandan will be top dogs out west? Legacy losing a few kids early including their freshman phenom.

This. And a lot of parents forget that even if your kid truly is elite, and you have the money to support whatever extra development opportunities, that the kid himself still has to want it even more than the parents. You can't force passion, and you can't force true effort on someone no matter how hard you try.

Or just let them enjoy playing the sport of hockey with their hometown friends.

It's a strange trend, and I'm guessing most often it is the parents that want it for their pissing matches. Too many doors have opened just for money making oppurtunities that are posing as development opportunities. It is very rare where we see a kid leaving early being for a legitmate reason. Most often they get little to no benefit from a life altering change. And all for what? Someone should teach parents basic statistics so they can see the reality of their kid playing anything beyond Jr Bs after school.