The Sicatoka

Raid their cabinets. That's pretty good. I wonder if they have Mohawk carpets in the lobby in Indianapolis, Indiana. Sadly, no cabinet (or fridge) raids. We only had to look in their driveway. They have a stated policy one direction, yet they choose to take the money from Pontiac, a company with an Indian name and with an Indian-related logo (arrowhead). "Do as I say, not as I do," must be the NCAA motto, eh. I guess money talks when it comes to names and logo at the NCAA too. So much for the "righteousness" of the NCAA on this topic. Or does the NCAA tribal approval of Chief Pontiac's Ottawa tribe so they can display their official car and its Indian name and imagery at NCAA Championships?

There are bigger issues here, bigger than a moniker and logo, bigger than UND, bigger than the beloved Sioux Nations, bigger than North Dakota. Let me hit y'all with some of the issues here: - a sub-committee within an organization UND belongs to is trying to usurp its own by-laws and constitution to ramrod things down the member's throats. That's great if you're the rodder, crappy if you're the roddee. For example, GK, you wouldn't like it if all tribal policy came solely from the tribal secretary and not the chair and full council, would you? You have to stand up and fight those fights (usurped by-laws) in any organization when it happens. - "the best little monopoly in America" (BusinessWeek On-line, Dec. 9, 2002) is attempting to put illegal restraints on trade in almost sure violation of the Sherman Anti-Trust Act. - an organization that UND belongs to, which has clearly defined process for reviews, keeps changing the process at their own whims. Let's put this into simpler terms: How frustrated would anyone be if your department or major kept changing, moving, or adding to the graduation requirements on you? An organization that does that, without following legislated process to make changes within the organization, must be stood up to and challenged. - UND was called "hostile and abusive." It's not the case and must be challenged. What else would you expect. - There's a difference between "hostile and abusive" and "offensive". Nobody has clearly set the standards within the NCAA. (See "moving target" above) By the standard that really matters (the courts) UND isn't "hostile and abusive." Personally, I think UND has been slandered by the NCAA using those words. - (quoting UND's 35 page response) "Should any group be given the exclusive right to control the image of their ancestors? ... . Giving ethnic groups a proprietary right over historical images is a principle which should be rejected outright." Like I said before, if this alleged "exclusive right" did exist soon only Democrats could tell us about Clinton and only Republicans tell us about Bush. Better yet, only Nazis and Aryans about Nazis and Aryans. I reject the "exclusive right" notion; I favor the First Amendment. - UND holds the legal rights on the moniker "Fighting Sioux" and on the Ben Brien artwork used as a logo. All of that is intellectual property. If the NCAA forces this they've devalued UND's intellectual property. That's damage. Damage is recoverable. - the NCAA is trying to justify their position using suspect (at best) data. If there is such a thing as due process anywhere, all of the data used in making a decision should be available and have been reviewed (thoroughly, by disinterested parties). This isn't the case in this matter. The NCAA is using unpublished studies (not publicly reviewed), studies that don't report process and method, key in any study, as a basis. This is wrong and most likely won't stand a test in a court room. - and finally, the NCAA created a "namesake tribe" exemption (even though the research they seem to love to cite says that shouldn't matter) but continues to refuse to accept Spirit Lake Tribe Resolution No. A05-01-041. That resolution is yet to be overridden or recinded by Spirit Lake Tribal Council (the only group that matters, as GK has told us). What we have here are some fundamental issues: - breech of contract (NCAA constitution is a contract with UND) - intellectual property rights - anti-trust (NCAA actions as a monopoly) - due process (following process, using reliable data and evidence to make decisions)

Read the linked thread and think of all of the things the NCAA left unchecked could try. (PS - PCM owes me a for use of the "ox" line. :lol: ) http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?t=52968 There is one thing a liberal college president loves more than their ideology: Their power. There is no way a college president will do anything that'll cede even more "institutional control" away from themselves (their power). What you have to do is convince them that trying to take power from them is exactly what Myles Brand and his NCAA cohorts are up to.

Thanks to ScottM at USCHO pointing out that Pontiac produces a vehicle called Aztek (as in Aztec, the Mexican tribe).

The old Pontiac logo actually used an Indian chief head. The current logo is still a downward pointing arrowhead. (Look at it.) No Indian imagery. Myles Brand, and his sponsor car, must stay home.

Link fixed. Myles Brand driving an Indian mascot car into his "catalyst for social change" championships. ROTFLMFAO.

The stuff you learn watching TV: 1. The official car of the NCAA this year is the Pontiac. http://www.ncaa.org/releases/miscel...003031401ms.htm 2. Pontiac is named after Pontiac, the Ottawa Indian Chief! 3. Thus, the NCAA has an Indian mascot car at all of its championship events. 4. Thus, by its very own edict, the NCAA and its Indian mascot official car should not be allowed to participate in its own NCAA championship events, or should at least have to drop Pontiac, or leave them at home. An organization based in Indianapolis, Indiana, with Pontiac as the official mascot car, getting "righteous" about Indian names. Now that-thar, that's funny, I don't care who you are.

I know sponsor doesn't equal require. I wish more conferences would sponsor sports (and allow associate members) and require fewer. As far as cherry-picking, "so what" is what I say. Pick a few things that you can succeed at and do them exceptionally well. If Ohio State can do exceptionally well in 36 sports good for them. I won't be jealous, I'll just hope UND can do exceptionally well in the sports it's chosen. The minimum sports thing is just a ploy by the big-budget schools to keep the schools that could be powerhouses in one or two sports from focusing on just those. In having to focus on maintaining a minimum number of sports those schools can't build the powerhouse and thus the big-budget schools stay on top. I say "so what" if a school like Gonzaga only had mens basketball and womens soccer (for Title IX). I say "so what" if a school like Bemidji State just had mens and womens hockey. It'd probably be better for the school's overall budget. (We all know resources that could go for academics are funnelled to athletics at just about every school out there.) I know this is blasphemy to some, but there is nothing magical about an "all-sports" conference. Pick a few things that you can succeed at and do them exceptionally well.

Yup, you keep quoting Dr. Kupchella on that one and you keep being correct. :lol: Didn't NDSU and SDSU use the "all our old rivals moved up" argument (Montana, Montana St., et al) as part of their basis? Isn't that the exact same argument?

The issues are money and conference. This travel you mention is the money part of that. Explain to me how non-conference travel to all of those places as a DII is any cheaper than non-conference travel to similar distance places as a DI? I still say conference is the issue that is more important than money when discussing DI. Why? A known conference sets about half of your travel schedule per year. Knowing travel, even part of it, makes budgeting (money) easier to do. Not having a conference (completely unknown travel) means you start each budget cycle guessing how many miles you'll be travelling. And travel, at $2+ per gallon of gas, ain't cheap.

I looked at the NCC and the five nearest DI (A or AA or AAA) conferences: Big 10, Big Sky, MAC, Missouri Valley, MidCon. What'd I find? All sponsor: M: BB, golf, CC, I Tr, O Tr. W: BB, golf, CC, I Tr, O Tr, Soc, Tennis, VB Note: UND fits all of those perfectly. NDSU has no W Tennis. All but the BSC sponsor: M: baseball, swim W: softball, swim Note: UND fits all that perfectly. NDSU has no swim teams. All but the NCC sponsor M tennis. Note: That fits neither UND or NDSU. If somebody is worried about "conference", not having any tennis or swimming (including an Olympic pool) seems to be the bigger issue than fans on a chat board tossing about the notion of maybe dropping M/W golf. As far as fiscal sense, golf is cheap, but it's also sure red ink: no gate. On a personal note, I believe this "minimum number of sports" concept is crazy. How about sports departments that play what they and the fans can and will support.

No, but which conference? All we have here is hypotheticals! Heck, we could dream up a conference that could require lacrosse if we really wanted to. And would you really want to join a conference where golf, or even swimming, (not the revenue sports) is the deal-breaker? You can't control hypothetical bids to hypothetical conferences. You can control what's yours to control. PS - The NCC and Mid-Con sponsor swimming, but don't require it for membership. What an interesting concept: sponsor, not require.

Let me help you out with that one also. From UND's second appeal:

Firstly, it is Buning. Secondly, I can't speak for others, but I've put the word "lacrosse" and the thoughts of dropping baseball and golf past Mr. Buning (and others in key positions at UND). Can't the same be said of swimming for about any conference (save the Big Sky)? (Or do we not want to talk swimming because NDSU doesn't have teams and most nearby DI conferences sponsor swimming?) Under the counting rules for sports for DI, UND currently has 20 sports: M(9): FB, BB, hockey, golf, baseball, S&D, CC, indoor track, outdoor track. W(11): BB, hockey, golf, soccer, VB, softball, tennis, S&D, CC, indoor track, outdoor track. The DI rules only mandate 6M and 8W sports. The key is to not drop "track" (which gets you CC, indoor, and outdoor teams counting for "3" teams per sex relatively cheap). Beyond that, personally, I'd say go with what makes fiscal and competitive sense. And again, UND can't control potential conference affiliation requirements. UND can only control what is its to control.

From the Herald: Don't ya love it when Phil talks the lawyer talk.

.... again. Come on Myles "catalyst for social change" Brand. I thought this was great social and moral issue. If it is stick to your position and deny UND's second appeal (and stand by to get yours handed to you in court on legal grounds).

The M-SP area non-NCC school with the wherewithall (is that a word?) to make a jump to a potential DI-AA NCC would be St. Thomas (long before C-SP).

I won't disagree. But they dared say "DI" aloud in St. Cloud which was truly surprising. And that same pressure would also be felt in Vermillion. And of course "if SCSU can do it" the folks in Duluth and Mankato will say .... Honestly, if the NCC dominos fell that way, I'd see Augie to the NSIC and UNO to the MIAA (backfilling Missouri-Rolla's spot) and the rest taking a shot at DI-AA. (I said "shot." Success is a whole other matter.) Then again, UNO might look at a non-conference, all bus trip, BB schedule that could easily include Creighton, Drake, UNI, Iowa, Iowa State, and "Big Red". It's going to get more confusing before it gets clearer.

Canada v. Russia? Too much red on the ice, and maybe not enough red on the ice in some cases. Quick, call your bookies! I just got the short box score from the gold medal game. GAME SUMMARY Scoring By Period RUS 0-0-0 -- 0 CAN 0-0-1 -- 1 First Period

But you repeat yourself.

Heck, that's easy. Northern Colorado NDSU SDSU Now rumblings at SCSU ....

I agree with your assessment. That's how I see it also. But how is that worse than a (week-long, think: lodging) trip to Florida, two to Kansas, and about a 18 regional bus trips (between baseball and mens golf)? Five travel weekends can be 10 road games leaving six home games. The goal of course would be 8 home, 8 road games. And as far as "remote location", Denver and Air Force are not exactly in the heart of lacrosse territory right now either. Yes, they have "pair" factor, but a team coming to GF could try to schedule an exhibition in Winnipeg against a Canadian team. Our EADA data shows 45 on the baseball team. All go to Florida for the week, don't they? And doesn't lacrosse limit the "travel party" like hockey does also? (Hockey only, by rule, takes 22 on the road; the others stay home.) Here I think we'll agree: 1. Baseball at DI doesn't make sense for UND (if UND were to go DI). 2. Lacrosse is a viable option given the existing infrastructure and nature of the fan base. 3. If a move to DI were to occur, cutting would happen long before adding. (I accept and acknowledge that.) My point in the conversation is this: UND needs to look at all, all, of this as a blank piece of paper to be filled in.

Golf? Golf? And here all along I thought it was strong academics (you are creating your "peer group" by coming together in a conference, right?), solid foundations (fiscal, facilities, fans), and either football or basketball programs that can produce (national tourney dollars) that conferences look for. Tell Dale Lennon, tell Craig Bohl: It's golf. For the record, of the conference names normally invoked in these discussions (NCC, Big Sky, Missouri Valley, Mid-Con, and heck the MAC and Big Ten) all sponsor swimming. No, wait, all except the Big Sky. But not having swimming in looking for a conference doesn't seem to come up as a "gotta have" issue as golf has. Something seems amiss.

Given the FY 2005 EADA data showing UND with a (albeit very small) profit and NDSU with a perfectly magical "break even" (to the dollar no less ), should we read into these comments concerns about programs at schools who've recently made the jump as well?