Expansion of Div I Hockey in the West

[star2city]

Note: This does lead up to and relate to the Div IAA topic.

Perhaps it

[bisonguy]

star2city,

After extensive DI conference reasearch and input from intelligent DI fans, the MoValley conference would be a UND pipedream. The Horizon might be a possiblity. The MoValley is trying to get rid of the "mid-major" label, and become one of the Big Boy conferences. They're trying to attract the Notre Dame's, not the North Dakota's.

[Siouxrock]

that would be gay

[schmidtdoggydog]

If NDSU is in a league with schools such as the "Notre Dame's" their abysmal record of last year will not be an aberration.

[Siouxrock]

i hope they dont come out with a d-1 hockey big ten

[bisonguy]

If NDSU is in a league with schools such as the "Notre Dame's" their abysmal record of last year will not be an aberration.

The MoValley is a non-football conference. Most of their members with football teams compete in The Gateway Conference. The MoValley is trying to become a upper level conference, especially in basketball. I was trying to point out that they are looking more for established DI members that would help to improve their status. Notre Dame and North Dakota were used only for reference (that and they both have the same logo for football ).

[BisonMav]

star2city Posted on Apr 4 2003, 06:37 PM

non-traditional hockey school such as UN-Omaha selling out their arena (and paying bills for much of the athletic budget)

Omaha's success in hockey is not surprising. The city has a great hockey tradition. Gordie Howe, Marcel Pronovost and Terry Sawchuk all played for the Omaha Knights. The Omaha Lancers sold out every night for years. It was only a matter of time before UNO joined the mix. UNO never really drew fans for their other sports. Basketball fans go to Creighton games, and Football fans flock to Lincoln.

[star2city]

star2city,

After extensive DI conference reasearch and input from intelligent DI fans, the MoValley conference would be a UND pipedream. The Horizon might be a possiblity. The MoValley is trying to get rid of the "mid-major" label, and become one of the Big Boy conferences. They're trying to attract the Notre Dame's, not the North Dakota's.

Bisonguy:

It's good to see you actually researching Div I conferences. I agree with you, as the MOValley has been incredibly stable over the last two decades and only major changes in the college sports landscape would cause it to seek expansion. The Horizon has much more potential for near-term (2-5 year) changes.

My point since last September is that, for reasons of geography and population, it is extraordinarily difficult for any North Dakota-based school to get accepted into a decent existing Div I conference. Only by partnering with a Minnesota school and by leveraging other assets (WCHA membership) could UND get into a decent Div I conference. For these same reasons, NDSU's chances are even more remote, as they have almost nothing to leverage.

What has been absolutely incredible is that the Fargo media and the NDSU athletic department have, until now, consistently offered up the Horizon League and the MoValley as possible conference options to the Big Sky. No one within the bison community has stood up and challenged what is clearly propaganda and misleading statements. If a Sioux fan such as myself states truth, it is rejected violently by certain bison fans. Finally, bisonguy steps up and says the MoValley is a pipedream. Truth is finally prevailing. I have hope for you, bisonguy.

[bisonguy]

star2city,

I have a feeling that the NDSU/SDSU saga will play out as follows:

1) orphan football conference is founded with other sport conference affiliations to help round out the schedules

2) After probationary period, Big Sky may reconsider NDSU/SDSU membership

3) If Big Sky membership fails, new members will be invited into the new conference for other sports, making it a multi sport conference. A new multisport conference might be made, as another scenario, but this would increase the playoff ineligibility and autobid period.

4) The new conference wil not accept any new probationary members. If they are out of the probationary period, they may receive an invitation.

[Bison_Kent]

Bisonguy,

I think you are right about the Big Sky. If NDSU & SDSU were already Division I, they probably would have let us in right away but since there is a five year probationary period, this might be why the Big Sky was against it right now. Also, I think there are going to be many more changes in college football in 3-4 years as well. Teams like Idaho, New Mexico State, San Jose State, and Utah State might be forced down to I-AA.

Having this temporary conference would be a good fit in the probationary period as NDSU can compete for a conference title against like teams. The three independent schools, from what I have heard, are not full 63 scholorship football schools so they can grow along with the newly created I-AA teams.

[star2city]

star2city,

I have a feeling that the NDSU/SDSU saga will play out as follows:

1) orphan football conference is founded with other sport conference affiliations to help round out the schedules

2) After probationary period, Big Sky may reconsider NDSU/SDSU membership

3) If Big Sky membership fails, new members will be invited into the new conference for other sports, making it a multi sport conference. A new multisport conference might be made, as another scenario, but this would increase the playoff ineligibility and autobid period.

4) The new conference wil not accept any new probationary members. If they are out of the probationary period, they may receive an invitation.

Bisonguy:

Remarkably, I am almost in complete agreement with your statements. Div. I probation and delayed eligibility, as has been discussed on Siouxsports, is a huge barrier to Div I Conference acceptance. I would only add that the conference affiliation reached in the near term will probably be a loose confederation of other Div I independents or orphans: TxAM-Corpus, Tex-Pan Am, Utah Valley St., IP-FortWayne, and UNColo.

How will the casual NDSU and SDSU fans react when they find their home basketball schedule in 2004-5 is filled with the above teams, or even teams from the Mid-Continent? To me, it takes highly committed fans to endure an independent or weakly-aligned conference schedule.

[bisonguy]

Time will tell. It's hard to say how casual fans may react to the above teams, but there's a good possibility that it might be favorable. Some of my NDSU classmates couldn't handle going to NDSU BB games, because they said it was at a lower level than they were used to. Most of these guys were from Montana, when their team wasn't that great. Mediocre DI has a greater chance of seeing someone like Beasley(or two or three) that makes the game fun to watch.

[Elmerduf]

Unfortunately for Colorado State University hockey hopefuls, it appears that we'll be stuck with the club team for quite a few more years. The new athletic director Jeff Hathaway let it be known that the priorities are to expand the football stadium, basketball arena and "level" the athletic scholarships for womens sports. He actually mentioned adding women's soccer as a D-I sport to give some more scholarships to the women athletes at CSU.

He mentioned this at a public forum on March 1st. When specifically asked about ice hockey he said it was "too expensive" and that "we have other priorities". I doubt that the Utah Utes would add D-I hockey sport either. Although it would be nice to add another politically incorrect name to D-I hockey! Gotta keep those agitators busy!

If they did decide to add another mens sports program, baseball would probably be a higher priority than hockey. The Colorado Eagles, the new hockey team from the CHL playing just southeast of Fort Collins probably wouldn't want any ticket competition from a new D-1 program. However, if the new minor league team folds in a year or two, there will be a 6000 seat hockey arena looking for a tenant. That would make it interesting.

Here is a quote from the website Ramnation, kind of the Siouxsports.com of CSU:

No varsity hockey--Hathaway was asked what the chances are for adding hockey as a varsity sport, which was met with a pretty emphatic "no". He said he has been contacted by the commissioner of the College Hockey America (CHA) conference (which is the conference Air Force is in) to visit campus and talk about the possibility of adding hockey at Colorado State. But Hathaway said adding hockey would not be feasible because it requires a large number of scholarships (about 20 or so) to compete at that level. And if 20 scholarships were added to a men's sport, the same would have to be offered to women's.

[Siouxrock]

i dont see this ever happening

as the wcha being one of the strongest conferences, i dont think they wanna make a bigger weaker one

[star2city]

Unfortunately for Colorado State University hockey hopefuls, it appears that we'll be stuck with the club team for quite a few more years.  The new athletic director Jeff Hathaway let it be known that the priorities are to expand the football stadium, basketball arena and "level" the athletic scholarships for womens sports.  He actually mentioned adding women's soccer as a D-I sport to give some more scholarships to the women athletes at CSU.

....

Here is a quote from the website Ramnation, kind of the Siouxsports.com of CSU:

Elmerduf:

Thanks for the info from Fort Collins. A CSU Div I hockey team doesn't sound realistic in the short-term, but I do wonder what CSU's response would be if the WCHA approached them, rather than the CHA. Membership in the CHA would not be very financially rewarding, but WCHA membership would, what with almost immediate rivalries with Denver and CC and revenues that could probably pay for the extra women's sport. Only if CSU started hockey would I ever envision Utah also starting Div I hockey.

If Div I hockey is ever to grow more in the west, it would seem the WCHA would have to take two steps: (a) make a commitment to expand and eventually split into two conferences or affiliated divisions, and (b) rework the scheduling with travel partners so that Friday/Saturday home games are against different opponents (more like Hockey East), allowing every team to visit every arena every year. These changes would meet great resistance, but it's probably the only way for western hockey to grow.

[Elmerduf]

Although the WCHA would wield more clout that the CHA, the fact is that this athletic director is just not currently interested in ice hockey. He feels that it is not a priority for the school.

As far as Utah goes, the costs in Salt Lake City would be even more than out of Fort Collins to start a varsity program. I doubt that the Utes would add it either. Get BYU interested in a varsity hockey program, then that could change! Apparantly internal problems with the club hockey program at Utah have forced their club team to drop the "Ute" nickname. I don't know exactly what happened, but there seems to have been violations with ineligible players on their team. I know it's a side issue, but these internal problems may have created a PR issue that could possibly affect the future of any hockey program with the Utes.

Although I don't think CSU varsity ice hockey will happen for a while, I would love to see it. I don't like driving to south Denver from Fort Collins on a snowy friday evening to watch college hockey.