Siouxman Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Well when I show FACTS its kind of hard to not take me seriously. You can't argue FACTS, something some people on here dont know how to get. Hint #1: Many of us put obnoxious posters on the ignore list. Then it doesn't matter how many facts you post, they don't get seen. When it comes to credibility, half of it is facts, and half is attitude. So far you are only half right on that index. But this is just a suggestion. Hint #2: The administrator can also take matters into his hands if you don't learn to play nice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SportsDoc Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Gold Gloves are based on DEFENSE NOT OFFENSE! and out of 19 Gold Glove winners this year 7 came from playoff teams. Also, last year Justin Morneau won the AL MVP and he was not on the best team in the country. To start on Derek Jeter, I hate the Yankees but Jeter is at best and average hitter but his fielding is what makes him, in 1783 games he has only 182 errors which gives him a percentage of .975 which is very good. So to say that if you win a Gold Glove just because you can hit and your on the best team in the country does not make any sense. But, fielding % does not tell the whole story, either. Jeter has decent range, but a below average MLB SS arm. Someone with great range and a cannon could be a better SS than Jeter because he gets to more balls and has a chance to throw more runners out, both of which are more difficult plays that will result in more errors, thereby lowering his fielding %. Jeter would not even get to some of those balls, and when he does, some will just be beaten out due to his arm strength, resulting in hits, and no errors for Jeter, thereby keeping his fielding % high. In Jeter's case, all it proves is he makes the routine plays consistently, which he does. There are many defensive SS's at the MLB level who GM's would take ahead of Jeter for their defense. Doesn't make Jeter a bad SS, but he is not a Gold Glove SS, either, to me. Like it or not, many times the Gold Glove award is like the Homecoming Queen vote, popularity contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Sicatoka Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 give it to someone who had a mere 3 errors in 105 games? that would be the stupidest thing ever, of course he is going to have less errors HE PLAYED IN A LOT LESS GAMES. To answer your question of how many GG did JR. win when he played a partial season...ZERO God you are getting dumber each time you speak...Griffey has only 10 GG and those 10 gold gloves all came when he played in SEATTLE not with the REDS it wasnt tell he got to the REDS that he started getting injured. Kent Hrbek played 105 games in 1988 with a 0.004 better fielding percentage than Mattingly: No Gold Glove. For comparison .... Ken Griffey, Jr., won a Gold Glove in 1994 playing just 111 games (partial season), in Seattle. Ken Griffey, Jr., won a Gold Glove in 1995 playing just 72 games (partial season), in Seattle. Sources: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2148 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=2148 To answer your question of how many GG did JR. win when he played a partial season...ZERO We're sorry. The correct answer is TWO. I just hate people who dont do some research and just say things off the top of there head. You must really hate it now. And Danny Freund will be all conference in FCS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soohockey15 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 give it to someone who had a mere 3 errors in 105 games? that would be the stupidest thing ever, of course he is going to have less errors HE PLAYED IN A LOT LESS GAMES. To answer your question of how many GG did JR. win when he played a partial season...ZERO God you are getting dumber each time you speak...Griffey has only 10 GG and those 10 gold gloves all came when he played in SEATTLE not with the REDS it wasnt tell he got to the REDS that he started getting injured. This post is important to people who think they know how to rate players on a defensive level. You, my friend, are the reason that fans do not get votes in Gold Glove voting. First of all, fielding percentage means basically nothing, ESPECIALLY when it comes to first basemen. Try looking at some other metrics, such as Range Factor (the single most telling stat when it comes to defense) and Zone Rating. Since you believe Derek Jeter is a good fielder, I'll assume you have no idea what these stats mean and have never seen them. Zone Rating is how many balls you get to that are hit in your defensive zones. Jeter ranks dead last in all of baseball in this stat. Range Factor, for reasons you will soon hear, is the most important stat when evaluating players defensively. The formula is simple, (putouts + assists)/innings. In short, its basically how many balls the player gets to and successfully make plays on, not only taking range into account, but also how well a player can make outs. Derek Jeter ranks second to last in this stat, and last in the American League. I suppose if you want to look at fielding percentage, Jeter also was in the bottom third of all shortstops in this category. I also will assume, because you think that fielding percentage is so important, that batting average and RBI (the two most overrated offensive stats) are all a fan and scout needs to know about a player's offense. Get a clue, siouxkid12, get a clue. Link to defensive stats (Range Factor and Zone Rating are the two stats at the end of the list) Defensive Stats If you ask nicely, I will give you the people who should've won Gold Gloves in the AL/NL (hint: Torii Hunter isn't one of them). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxkid12 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Kent Hrbek played 105 games in 1988 with a 0.004 better fielding percentage than Mattingly: No Gold Glove. For comparison .... Ken Griffey, Jr., won a Gold Glove in 1994 playing just 111 games (partial season), in Seattle. Ken Griffey, Jr., won a Gold Glove in 1995 playing just 72 games (partial season), in Seattle. Sources: http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=2148 http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/profile?playerId=2148 We're sorry. The correct answer is TWO. You must really hate it now. And Danny Freund will be all conference in FCS. Obviously the Coaches and Managers thought Griffey had enough merit to win one. But this argument started as why Kent Hrbek shouldve won one and you still have yet to prove that he shouldve won it. Don Mattingly was the best fielding 1st basemen of his era and he has the awards to prove it. Ask anybody that knows anything about major league baseball or works within baseball and they will tell you that Don was the right choice. oh and by they way Griffey didnt play in 111 games in 1994...he played in 103 in CF and 1 in RF and then 9 games as a DH. and in 1995 he played only in 70 games in CF and 2 as a DH Once again you didnt do your research Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soohockey15 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Obviously the Coaches and Managers thought Griffey had enough merit to win one. But this argument started as why Kent Hrbek shouldve won one and you still have yet to prove that he shouldve won it. Don Mattingly was the best fielding 1st basemen of his era and he has the awards to prove it. Ask anybody that knows anything about major league baseball or works within baseball and they will tell you that Don was the right choice. oh and by they way Griffey didnt play in 111 games in 1994...he played in 103 in CF and 1 in RF and then 9 games as a DH. and in 1995 he played only in 70 games in CF and 2 as a DH Once again you didnt do your research The awards don't mean anything, after a while players begin to win on reputation over skill (Torii Hunter, Ivan Rodriguez). I just wish sportswriters could get over the fact that there is more to defense than having a play shown on Baseball Tonight. Also, I'd love to see your response to my fielding percentage rant. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxkid12 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 This post is important to people who think they know how to rate players on a defensive level. You, my friend, are the reason that fans do not get votes in Gold Glove voting. First of all, fielding percentage means basically nothing, ESPECIALLY when it comes to first basemen. Try looking at some other metrics, such as Range Factor (the single most telling stat when it comes to defense) and Zone Rating. Since you believe Derek Jeter is a good fielder, I'll assume you have no idea what these stats mean and have never seen them. Zone Rating is how many balls you get to that are hit in your defensive zones. Jeter ranks dead last in all of baseball in this stat. Range Factor, for reasons you will soon hear, is the most important stat when evaluating players defensively. The formula is simple, (putouts + assists)/innings. In short, its basically how many balls the player gets to and successfully make plays on, not only taking range into account, but also how well a player can make outs. Derek Jeter ranks second to last in this stat, and last in the American League. I suppose if you want to look at fielding percentage, Jeter also was in the bottom third of all shortstops in this category. I also will assume, because you think that fielding percentage is so important, that batting average and RBI (the two most overrated offensive stats) are all a fan and scout needs to know about a player's offense. Get a clue, siouxkid12, get a clue. Link to defensive stats (Range Factor and Zone Rating are the two stats at the end of the list) Defensive Stats If you ask nicely, I will give you the people who should've won Gold Gloves in the AL/NL (hint: Torii Hunter isn't one of them). I wouldnt ask for your opinion if my life depended on it. Is this your own list that you came up with? Because i would LAUGH MY @$$ off if i saw your list. No, batting average and RBI's and HR dont mean crap when talk about offensive stats. Lets talk about on base percentage, or maybe slugging percentage, maybe Isop, those would be just a few things I would talk about when talking offensive stats. Get a clue SOOHOCKEY, get a clue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soohockey15 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 I wouldnt ask for your opinion if my life depended on it. Is this your own list that you came up with? Because i would LAUGH MY @$$ off if i saw your list. No, batting average and RBI's and HR dont mean crap when talk about offensive stats. Lets talk about on base percentage, or maybe slugging percentage, maybe Isop, those would be just a few things I would talk about when talking offensive stats. Get a clue SOOHOCKEY, get a clue Well at least you know which offensive stats matter (although I'd love to hear your reasons *why* BA and RBI are overrated and OBP/SLG and OPS are the most important ones). Still, you haven't responded to my comments on fielding percentage and Derek Jeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxkid12 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 First, the field is divided into 22 slices, with each one starting at home and going to the outfield fence. The first slice running along the left field line is Zone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soohockey15 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Congratulations, you know how to use the copy and paste function; well done. Also, it was about Jeter to start, you brought up that his defense set him apart from other shortstops; this obviously isn't true. Hey, I can use the copy/paste too! From Siouxkid12: "To start on Derek Jeter, I hate the Yankees but Jeter is at best and average hitter but his fielding is what makes him, in 1783 games he has only 182 errors which gives him a percentage of .975 which is very good." Using fielding percentage as a telling defesive stat is like saying David Eckstein is a good hitter because he hit .310 this year. Also, I'm not really sure where you get that Jeter is at best an average hitter, he went .322/.388/.452. He had the 5th best OPS of all shortstops, so I'd say thats much better than average, considering he isnt a big time power hitter and the guys above him all posted much better SLG numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
siouxkid12 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Congratulations, you know how to use the copy and paste function; well done. Also, it was about Jeter to start, you brought up that his defense set him apart from other shortstops; this obviously isn't true. Hey, I can use the copy/paste too! From Siouxkid12: "To start on Derek Jeter, I hate the Yankees but Jeter is at best and average hitter but his fielding is what makes him, in 1783 games he has only 182 errors which gives him a percentage of .975 which is very good." Using fielding percentage as a telling defesive stat is like saying David Eckstein is a good hitter because he hit .310 this year. Do you think I want type all of that, I know what it all means. Your just pissed that I know what I am talking about. Have a good day! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soohockey15 Posted November 21, 2007 Share Posted November 21, 2007 Do you think I want type all of that, I know what it all means. Your just pissed that I know what I am talking about. Have a good day! You obviously don't know what you're talking about, you think Jeter is a good defensive player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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