GrahamKracker Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 Just thought I would share the articles I had got off microfiche. I didnt want to upload lots of huge images so you have to follow this link... only good for 7 days unfortunately. Dakota student articles So after a really long 2 week discussion, the name was changed from Flickertails and the unofficial name "Nodaks" to Sioux. With no mention of Honor. more to come.... (if there is a better way to do this, let me know... do you prefer .pdf?) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimdahl Posted September 3, 2005 Share Posted September 3, 2005 I think these references to adopting the "Sioux" label because of the strength of the North Dakota Indians explicitly honored (m-w.com , a showing of usually merited respect) the Sioux: The strong Indian tribes that first inhabited North Dakota were members of the Sioux nation. Man and beast fell before their strength. There is nothing weak about that name, such as "Flickertail" might suggestBut theh (sic) name "Sioux" is about ideal. It would lend itself to many colorful variations, is historically corect, and, most important of all, immediately brings to mind the pioneer conquerer of the bison, bears and the elements. New spirit, new enthusiasm on the part of University sport fans will result from the adoption of the "Sioux label, with all its historical background and suggestion of color and strength. Too bad the continuation of the far left article on the 4th image wasn't included, it seems like it would have given further editorial rationale for the new name. However, it is worth remembering that these are editorials and letters to the editor in a student newspaper, not statements from the University. Thanks for posting the articles, though, very interesting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldralph Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Just thought I would share the articles I had got off microfiche. I didnt want to upload lots of huge images so you have to follow this link... only good for 7 days unfortunately. Dakota student articles So after a really long 2 week discussion, the name was changed from Flickertails and the unofficial name "Nodaks" to Sioux. With no mention of Honor. more to come.... Amazing. If it doesn't come right out and say it is to honor the Native American's then in your mind there is no honor in selecting the name. And it does suggest honoring the original Sioux inhabitants, nothing about the current generation of Sioux. We honor the legend of your ancestors similar to how Denver honors the Pioneers that were the white settlers taming the new frontier. I suppose we should change that name too, since they likely never came out and said it was to honor the Pioneers. If you see no honor in the Sioux name we can't make you believe it. However, just because you don't see it doesn't mean that we aren't all proud of the people that first settled these harsh lands, whether in teepee or log cabin, those were hearty people well deserving of honor. Frankly, I don't know how they survived the elements. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamKracker Posted September 6, 2005 Author Share Posted September 6, 2005 Amazing. If it doesn't come right out and say it is to honor the Native American's then in your mind there is no honor in selecting the name. And it does suggest honoring the original Sioux inhabitants, nothing about the current generation of Sioux. We honor the legend of your ancestors similar to how Denver honors the Pioneers that were the white settlers taming the new frontier. I suppose we should change that name too, since they likely never came out and said it was to honor the Pioneers. If you see no honor in the Sioux name we can't make you believe it. However, just because you don't see it doesn't mean that we aren't all proud of the people that first settled these harsh lands, whether in teepee or log cabin, those were hearty people well deserving of honor. Frankly, I don't know how they survived the elements. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Put yourself in that place in time. 1930. Lets see, only 5 years ago Injuns weren't considered citizens of this country they have been occupying for 1000's of years. I little over 50 years ago, the 7th was wiped out by the Sioux and Cheyenne. Some people you know probably were alive then for that fight. Reservation are basically boundaries that Indians can't leave. And if you were in this state, there were rules dealing with Indians, "if there were more than 6 in a group, you were allowed to shoot at them". After putting yourself in that era, how could you possibly think that UND started using the name FS because of honor? Hell, its 2005 and we still don't get the respect deserved. If that was the case, the University would have "honored" the wishes of the Sioux Tribes and changed the name by now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fedorov Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Hell, its 2005 and we still don't get the respect deserved. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Wow, that is unique. Every other person in the world feels they have all the respect they deserve. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldralph Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Put yourself in that place in time. 1930. Lets see, only 5 years ago Injuns weren't considered citizens of this country they have been occupying for 1000's of years. I little over 50 years ago, the 7th was wiped out by the Sioux and Cheyenne. Some people you know probably were alive then for that fight. Reservation are basically boundaries that Indians can't leave. And if you were in this state, there were rules dealing with Indians, "if there were more than 6 in a group, you were allowed to shoot at them". After putting yourself in that era, how could you possibly think that UND started using the name FS because of honor? Hell, its 2005 and we still don't get the respect deserved. If that was the case, the University would have "honored" the wishes of the Sioux Tribes and changed the name by now. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> GrahamKracker, you have the biggest chip on your shoulder of anyone I've ever seen (and I've never even seen you). I will no longer entertain you with argument as you will always have that chip on your shoulder; Sioux name or not. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mikejm Posted September 6, 2005 Share Posted September 6, 2005 Hell, its 2005 and we still don't get the respect deserved. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> And you, Kracker, still don't get it. Respect is not a given; it has to be earned. A good way to earn respect for yourself is to respect others. One might even argue that a person demonstrating a good deal of self-respect would be deserving of reciprocal respect. You seem to have more than a little difficulty with this concept. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrahamKracker Posted September 7, 2005 Author Share Posted September 7, 2005 And you, Kracker, still don't get it. Respect is not a given; it has to be earned. A good way to earn respect for yourself is to respect others. One might even argue that a person demonstrating a good deal of self-respect would be deserving of reciprocal respect. You seem to have more than a little difficulty with this concept. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Respect is earned. Exactly!!!!! The following Sioux Tribal entities have asked that you not use our name: "United Sioux Tribes Development Corporation" Standing Rock Sioux Tribe, Chair Standing Rock Sioux Tribe Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux Tribe, Chair Sisseton-Wahpeton Sioux Tribe Oglala Sioux Tribe Rosebud Sioux Tribe Yankton Sioux Tribe Crow Creek Sioux Tribe Cheyenne River Sioux Tribe Who is respecting who? Oh wait, you mean for us to respect YOU, not really the "earning" part you were talking about earlier... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 And you, Kracker, still don't get it. Respect is not a given; it has to be earned. A good way to earn respect for yourself is to respect others. One might even argue that a person demonstrating a good deal of self-respect would be deserving of reciprocal respect. You seem to have more than a little difficulty with this concept. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> Doesn't matter to me who or what you are, if you have earned my respect, you have my respect. If you look like, act like, smell like, and/or speak like a jack a$$, likely you won't. But my respect is not something you want, you want a logo and nick name changed. As one of my favorite women, Eleanor Roosevelt once said, "No one can make you feel inferior without your permission." How unfortunate, that your self esteem depends so much on a name you don't even use. You would do well to teach your children about self respect and self worth. Teach them that the way the word SIOUX is used is not indicative of who they are; be it the name of a city, state, car, cereal, casino, etc. Sad, very, very, sad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HockeyMom Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I just got caught up in all these threads. I think we all need to take a deep breath and count to ten. I am at the point where I believe that both sides of this issue are not going to change their minds. No matter how much/what the other side says. What I do not agree with is that the NCAA made an irrational decision and didn't include all nicknames/logos/mascotts that have something to do with a group of people. They left open a gaping smoldering hole that is very gray. Now certain teams are being given exeptions and other are not. I'm a parent, and that's a huge no-no in disciplining your children. It's either all or nothing. What I would love to see is a sign like Central Michigan has with both the schools logo and the Chippewa Nation's logo, only here and actually honoring the Sioux people. How incredible would that be to walk into Engelstad Arena, the Betty, the Alerus Center, Bronson Field.....to see it everywhere on campus? Why can't we just put the past behind us, learn from it, and work together to make this right? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sioux-cia Posted September 7, 2005 Share Posted September 7, 2005 I just got caught up in all these threads. I think we all need to take a deep breath and count to ten. I am at the point where I believe that both sides of this issue are not going to change their minds. No matter how much/what the other side says. What I do not agree with is that the NCAA made an irrational decision and didn't include all nicknames/logos/mascotts that have something to do with a group of people. They left open a gaping smoldering hole that is very gray. Now certain teams are being given exeptions and other are not. I'm a parent, and that's a huge no-no in disciplining your children. It's either all or nothing. What I would love to see is a sign like Central Michigan has with both the schools logo and the Chippewa Nation's logo, only here and actually honoring the Sioux people. How incredible would that be to walk into Engelstad Arena, the Betty, the Alerus Center, Bronson Field.....to see it everywhere on campus? Why can't we just put the past behind us, learn from it, and work together to make this right? <{POST_SNAPBACK}> I totally agree HockeyMom. Unfortunately, what GK and KTF want is the logo and name gone. The other opponents that oppose the name also want all Indian references gone. 'Compromise' is not in their vocabulary. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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