Northern Colorado Playoff Game

[elmduf]

Just an FYI,

Despite a down year for the NCC, Northern Colorado won 49-28 over Central Missouri State...huge come from behind win. They were down 21-0, then outscored them 49-7 the rest of the game. I didn't go, but heard the results on the radio on the way home today. I"m not a fan of SCSU, but I think they should have had a shot at the playoffs. Just my $.05.

[purplemavfan]

I agree with you that St. Cloud should have had a chance; too bad the six-team format was not in order for this season. UMD did well in playing NW Missouri close today.

[U2Bad1]

Too bad Northern Colorado shouldn't even be IN the playoffs.

[elmduf]

Yeah, that was a pretty odd situation. I tease my friends here that went to UNC. Apparantly, they submitted the ineligible list to the NCAA and a report of what had happened. It was a pretty big goof on the part of the compliance department at UNC. It seemed to appease the powers that be in the NCAA, so they get to play.

I talked to a gentleman who works at the compliance department at Colorado State University. (Amazing who hangs out at Old Chicago's and watches Vikings games on Sundays!) He told me that the transcripts were sent to CSU with the passing grades, along with the previous failing grade. It sounds like the compliance department at UNC overlooked that failing grade. He said it was a mistake, not done on purpose. Lord knows the way UNC takes transfers (or, rejects?) from D-1 schools that person is probably extremely overworked in that position.

I don't know the in's and out's of the whole situation, but it does sound like an honest mistake. I would like to think that the NCAA would cut some slack in other situations like that one. But I know better.

[pirate]

If Cutlip is eligible, why isn't he now playing? If he was ineligible, why was he allowed to play in four of his team's games? UNC's compliance people are a joke, besides, UNC doesn't care about the NCC, Division 2, or the NCAA. They are going d-1. Another dirty program in the lower echelons of d1-aa obscurity. Go NWMSU-Bearcats.

[dbarker]

Whether it was intentional or merely negligent, I think that there should have been some ramifications for using an ineligible player in four games. Particularly when that player was playing arguably the most important position on the field. Regardless of what UNC does in the remainder of the playoffs, their accomplishments of this season are tarnished. I don't think too many people are going to be missing them once they've left the NCC.

[elmduf]

dbarker,

I don't necessarily disagree with you. Because the Sioux are out of it, and UNC is in their lame duck year at D-II, I really don't care very much. I am just pulling for them because they are the last standing NCC school.

They do seem to be the funnel for the rejects of CU and CSU. That might not be a bad thing for a D I-AA program. I hear a lot of talk about going D-I from the NDSU and UNC crowd. But let's face facts. All they are going to be is a glorified D-II school in football, and a doormat for the REAL D-I schools in the other sports. IMHO, that isn't D-I, that is D-IAA.

Programs like the U of Minn, Colorado, Colorado State, even the University of Utah know the difference. Those schools don't exactly line up for the Weber State and Cal State Sacremento's of the college sports world for a fine day of football, much less a good evening of basketball. They have a long stenuous road ahead of them.

When UNC goes D-IAA, I wouldn't give a plug nickel to drive the fifteen minutes to Hughes Stadium and watch CSU kick the Snot out of them. Buena suerte...........

[purplemavfan]

If division II was not being diluted with very small schools, then yes, UNC and NDSU would be better off to stay in d-2. As for basketball, I don't think it is such a big jump to be quite successful at division I as some think....I recall Northern Iowa coming within a few points of Mn. Gophers in the 1990 NCAA tournament. I won't miss UNC in the NCC either, they are too far away and use some "questionable" tactics in their programs. I question if the d-1 market is large enough in Colorado, what with several d-1 colleges already operating there. I think the situation in the Dakotas, North and South, is different, in that there are no division I programs (except for hockey) in either state, and Minnesota has but one. Both NDSU and SDSU have good fans, and good financial backing it seems, although the Jacks are located in a fairly small city as division I goes. Whether they are vindicated or not in their decisions will depend a lot on what the NCAA does in the next two years. For me, the ideal would be the entire NCC moving to I-AA as a group, but the financial burden of d-1 hockey at several of the schools (except maybe UND) makes this pretty much out of the question.

[star2city]

the ideal would be the entire NCC moving to I-AA as a group, but the financial burden of d-1 hockey at several of the schools (except maybe UND) makes this pretty much out of the question.

The postings, including this one, are veering way off topic, but the above quote is just begging for a rebuttal. The financial burden of Div I college hockey always seems to get ripped on this site by external (non-UND) posters. But is this a reality compared to a sport like football?

For St. Cloud and Mankato, what would be a greater burden, Div. I hockey or Div I- AA football?

Hockey income: 16 home games, 5000 people/game, $10 / ticket (avg)

= $800,000 in ticket income +$200,000 concessions/other

Hockey expeditures: 20 scholarships, travel, coaches etc.

= $1,200,000

Net Loss to be made up by school/boosters= $200,000

Div II Football income: 5 home games, 5000 people/game (At SCSU/MSU-M), $10 /ticket = $250,000 in ticket income + $50,000 concessions etc

Football Div II expenditures: 35 scholarship, travel, coaches etc.

= $1,000,000

Net loss to be made up by school/boosters = $700,000

Div I-AA net loss to be made up by school/boosters = $1.1 mill

Moving to Div IAA would only increase the football losses as St. Cloud's and Mankato's football facilities would need major upgrades. They would have to double attendance to maintain their existing losses. Financially, it just does not make sense, even if they play a $400,000 guarantee game with Nebraska and get pulverized. Furthermore, how many Division I athletes are leaving Minnesota on hockey scholarships? When that exodus is compared with football, it would be crime to consider Div I football in Minnesota before Div I hockey.

If St. Cloud, Mankato, or even (don't laugh) Augustana dropped football, they could viably consider Div. I in all other sports if their boosters 'bought' into it. Football is where the big money is drained out of Div II AD budgets. There are a few exceptions: NDSU in years before 2002 when drawing less than 7000 spectators was unheard of.

[purplemavfan]

The point is, men's divison I hockey by itself might be supportable, but add gender equity, and a women's program as well, and the costs inflate. Where you live, hockey is likely a more popular sport, but here in southern Minnesota, the average person is more basketball or football oriented, at least those 40 and over. Division I-AA football need not be an overwhelming burden, either. Look at Drake and others. The NCC could set a scholarship limit, i.e., somewhat less than 63, to make it more affordable. Let's face it, most teams would not expect to set the world on fire at that level, but the chance to have division I basketball would be a prime reason for the move. But it's all academic anyway, it won't be happening. Regardless of what happens to UNC, NDSU, and maybe SDSU, I admire the fact that at least they are willing to take some risks and try the next level. I would be interested in hearing from Northern Iowa supporters and seeing what their outlook is now after being in division I for the last 20 or so years, or however long it has been. There are valid arguments for staying in division II no doubt; it is good competition, but a move to division I is also a good move for some of the NCC members, depending on their situation.

[JBB]

I have to say PurpleMavFans eyes open approach is very refreshing for this forum. He is expressing thoughts that really arent welcome here. Unfortunately, no real debate about the merits of a D1 NCC could ever be undertaken because of the advisarial position the sue sox community, as a whole, has taken. It hard to be heard above all the shouting and foaming at the mouth nay sayers.

[elmduf]

The way this thread is going, it probably belongs in the D-IAA section. So be it.

From living in Colorado and seeing UNC's athletic facilities, our friends in Greeley are MUCH weaker in that area than both NDSU and UND. (With the exception of the use of the Denver Broncos weight training facilities.) I think one thing that has pulled the trigger for them is the fact that their travel expenses to other D-1AA schools isn't going to be any greater than what they deal with now in the NCC. The other has to be the potential revenue. That's what I don't understand.

The big money loser is going to be football, despite the fact it may be the one sport they will compete in more quickly at the I-AA level than either NDSU or SDSU. Although they have a new facility, they don't have a small D-II facility. They can possibly get 10,000+ seated with some temporary stands next year. I can't imagine a comfortable seating situation for many of the fans there.

I don't understand how UNC could possibly fill 10,000 seats in their stadium. CSU has trouble filling their stadium for a game. It isn't for a lack of success at the D-1 level. That's a program that's becoming a perennial top 25 football program. They have won 3 of the last 4 Mountain West Conference championships. They can't fill a stadium. If UNC tries to compete for the CSU business (and they will have to), people would rather go to Hughes Stadium at CSU.

It's about a 40 minute drive between Hughes Stadium at CSU and Nottingham Field at UNC. UNC is in Greeley, roughly the size of Grand Forks. Loveland is about 20 minutes to the west, another town the size of Grand Forks. Ft. Collins is about the size of Fargo/Moorhead. All in all, there are about 1 million (+) living in Northern Colorado - within an hours drive from both CSU and UNC. CSU has a good D-1 athletic program. Successful both on the field and off. Outside of football, they draw good crowds. Exceptionally well for the Women's basketball and volleyball programs.

Butler-Hancock arena at UNC is a downscaled newer version of Hyslop at UND. Only without the larger additions for swimming and the office space. It's a glorified high school gymnasium. Yet it will host D-1 basketball and volleyball programs next year. That will be interesting, but I'll take my business to CSU. Moby Arena is much nicer and the quality of the competition is going to be much greater. For a long, long, long time.

Like I said before, D-1AA is not D-1. Their teams outside of Football may be called D-1, but they aren't. Not even close. They won't be for a long, long, long time.

I will give NDSU some credit. The Fargo Dome is a much better facility than anything UNC has to offer. They also don't have the competition for the sports $$$ in Basketball and Football in the Fargo-Moorhead area. However, I don't think that's enough to make the move to D-1AA.

I think the others (including our beloved Sioux) in the NCC are doing the wise thing by waiting for a probable re-classification. Granted, there is a diluted quality to D-II at this time. But the NCAA won't allow the D-IAA schools to suck at the teat of the March Madness money for much longer. It's ridiculous to think that the D-1AA schools would share equally with legitimate "big-time" programs like Arizona, Michigan, LSU...and even CSU.

As far as adding a new "NCC" D-1 conference. C'mon, be realistic. They don't want Cinderella at the dance.

NDSU, UNC and the other's making the jump are going to be in for a rude awakening when they play with the "big boys". There will be no Prince Charming to rescue them.

[administrator]

He is expressing thoughts that really arent welcome here.

Right you are! Debates about the merits of moving to D-IAA aren't welcome here, in the football forum.

I'm leaving this thread open in this forum, but future posts to it shouldn't debate D-IAA any further. Feel free to take it up in the D-IAA forum.

[SDSUFAN]

To get this thread back on topic, I was at the UNC game on Saturday in Greeley. UNC played remarkable after being down 21-0. Believe me, UNC never needed Cutlip and Dalton has to regret making the decision to play Cutlip instead of Passard. I would take Passard over Fjeldheim, because he has a strong long arm. UNC seems to be on a roll right now. NWMSU is suppose to have a bigger o line and that may make the difference. CMSU line was about 280 and UNC had many 300 big macs. A CSMU fan on D2 football claims a number of holding calls were missed and held one Mule defensive player all day.

I think CMSU saw the game films of UNC and the NCC and thought we can not run on these guys so lets dream up some trick plays. It worked for a while, but UNC in NCC fashion clawed their way back into the game and won big time.

[elmduf]

UNC rolled into the semi-finals against Grand Valley State. I wish them luck. However, Mr. Cutlip ended up on the wrong side of the law last week. He's facing DUI charges and more than likely won't be given another chance to play football at UNC. At the beginning of the year Kay Dalton stated he would not allow any room for error in his case. Dalton is a stubborn old school guy, I believe that Cutlip is finished playing college football.

[pirate]

Not so quick, Cutlip could fit in very well with behrnsie at uno, or with Rocky at Temple.

[kr]

GVS defeated UNC 44 - 7 (according to d2football.com) GVS will play Valdosta State (21-12 winner over Texas-A&M-Kingsville) for the championship.