IowaBison

Montana and Montana State are around $10 million each, right around UND. UND also has to support its hockey programs as well as pay for increased travel. I'd say the University would need about 3 to 4 million dollars more per year to be competitive in Division I.

I'm serious. The reason I visit this site is to gain insight into UND's potential move to Division I. I also (usually) enjoy the whatif scenarios that many posters contribute. However, this lacrosse thread seems to be so disconnected from the financial realities facing the University that I have taken the liberty to bring up my concerns. I don't do this because I enjoy poo-pooing the creative endeavors of other posters, but rather because I believe that often times the hypotheticals, in this instance the addition of lacrosse, need to be brought down to earth a little. (I'll gladly mention that I do the same thing when imagining where NDSU will end up conference-wise. I'm just intelligent enough not to post that under a certain, rare set of circumstances, the Bison will end up in the BIG XII, as it is based in pure fantasy.)

Under the DI-lite and DI+lax, exactly what conference do expect UND to get into?

If the day ever comes good luck pushing that.

The Big Sky doesn't field baseball or softball teams.

Story about BSU's Goalie and then the killer quote at the end: "I'll be a Sioux fan for life. That's all we have in North Dakota." aaaaargh.

1. Equestrian is an emerging sport, synchronized skating is not. 2. Once again thanks for referring to a phantom article. 3. Show me anywhere where it says that Denver had an invitiation sans a football program. 4. Thanks for referring to a post on a message board about 'the word on the street'. I'd like something factual from someone in the know (same for information on #3).

Hypothetically, you drop men's and women's golf which would preclude UND from joining the Big Sky to add lacrosse. This helps the university how?

That was for 2003-2004. In 2004-2005 we raised 1.2 million. This last year it was 1.4.

A few more points. 1. Synchronized skating isn't a NCAA sport. 2. Thanks for the bad post to an article, Star2City. 3. I haven't heard anywhere that adding vet med is a plan of Chapman's. 4. A conference doesn't care if you have extra sports, but most require that you field a given combination of men's and women's sports. 5. I don't think the BSC has any interest in having member institutions not field their core sports. The only current exception is Portland State without tennis which it promised to add after joining and I don't think the conference or other schools are too pleased about it. 6. From what I heard (from a little birdie) is that Denver had an invitiation waiting in IF they added football AND that Denver has no interest in the Big Sky; they want in the WAC, WCC, or Missouri Valley otherwise they're staying in the Sun Belt. 7. Show me anywhere that anyone said NDSU had a Big Sky invititation.

A couple of things. 1. I'm happy UND has a successful hockey program and that NDSU doesn't. 2. Equestrian is on the list of sports to possible add if(When) Title IX gets sticky. 3. Do you have any evidence whatsoever that Denver was offered a spot in the Big SKy. I've heard this numerous places, but have yet to see it from a media or administrative source. 4. I don't see NDSU ever adding a vet med program. ////////////////// 5. Lacrosse doesn't fit because all-sports conference counts it. You'd essentially be spending money wit little in return (I don't believe that for a second that with scholarships that it would cashflow at UND). ///////////////// 6. I agree with the idea of replacement, if that's what it was. The problem is my point 5 above. You'd need tennis AND lacrosse, I don't see how that saves you any money.

$1.4 million. We'll raise $1.7 million next year. Having success in football and basketball certainly helps.

Equestrian, if begun, is actually a pretty smart move by the University. It helps with Title IX and is likely to be a money generator for the University as a whole (though almost certainly a loser for the athletic department). Those horses need to be boarded (for $$$) and the University's Equine Center needs boarders.

The recent interest on this board in lacrosse is interesting (to put it politely). IMO, if UND is sincerely thinking about making the move to Division I adding sports isn't going to be part of the equation. Making ends meet given Title IX and conference requirements for number and types of sports will be demanding enough. For example (only), the Big Sky membership requires men's tennis (need to add that) and women's tennis and golf (can't drop those). Also the thought that lacrosse or skating or soccer would be revenue generators is pretty optimistic.

That all depends on if and when UND moves to Division I.

I really think that one of the State's legislators should require each school in the state to fill out a uniform athletic financial reporting form. The only two numbers I care about: Tuition waivers, if any. Discretionary university funds spent on athletics. I want this from everybody from Lake Region State to UND and NDSU. I'm just as confused by how little junior colleges scrap up money for scholarships. Alternatively, I believe that a few boosters (and if you're familiar with Team Makers and the University, you know who these people are) covered the gap in last minute donations. Anybody else remember who Team Makers came up with a few hundred thousand dollars last minute in the spring, that wasn't me.

Thanks for the additions, star2city.

1. I don't think NDSU is going to get into the Big Sky, barring a big shakeup. 2. I don't think UND has any effect on NDSU's conference dealings. 3. I am for UND going DI, though I don't think it is necessarily in their best interests to do so. 4. I don't (strongly) care who our travel partner is, I think that the SDSU/NDSU pair is better than the NDSU/UND one for reasons on another thread. 5. NDSU does nothing to convince the Big Sky to let us in. They know who we are and where we are at. The change will come from within the conference not from without. 6. I don't see the Bison leaving the GWFC, who's going to take them. If the Gateway had a spot, I'm sure NDSU would jump at it (autobid, quality teams, relationship with the MVC).

I was hoping you could decipher those, SiouxMD. geography is a negative UNL-University of Nebraska-Lincoln UVSU is Utah Valley State the Big Sky has voiced concerns about SUU's academics (which with geography are the big determinants of membership) and UVSU is in transition from a junior college to DI. UND/NDSU/SDSU get props in my book for being outstanding research and teaching institutions, but to the Big Sky much of our quality is just gravy when looking at academics. After doing a little checking, I've determined that there is no way that UNO is going to the Big Sky as they only offer 2 (football, basketball) of the required 7 sports (track, cross country, indoor track, golf, tennis). Another issue that should be put in context is commitment to athletic quality and the case of UNC. First off, I like the Bears a lot and I wish them the best in the Big Sky regardless of where we end up. However, they currently provide only 42 football scholarships and per Kay Dalton's comments last night, it doesn't sound like they are in any hurry to get to the league requirement of 63. Also, the Vikings of Portland State also have no plans to add tennis which is also required by the league. This says something about the Big Sky.

Just a couple of thoughts that I've put together Up (Those Interested) NDSU (geography) SDSU (geography) SUU (academics, geography) UVSU (in transition, academics, relatively large market) UND (DII, geography) USD (DII, geography, BROKE) UNO (DII, UNL, geography, relatively large market) Out (Those who might leave) Sac State (Big West, WAC) Portland State (WAC-should have joined the Big West, not the Big Sky in the 90's) NAU? (don't think that is too credible, where are they gonna go?) Not Interested Davis (Happy with Big West) Poly (Happy with Big West) Denver (Sun Belt is 'better') Conjecture is fun, but the President's get to vote for admission or can decide to leave. I do see change ahead in the next 2-3 years as 9 teams doesn't work. Given comments by Fullerton and certain President's the 12 team idea isn't going to happen unless there is a major shakeup.

Sounds fine. If you're really picky, I'll buy you a 2 liter

I don't see the benefit of having three teams in the Dakotas (or Upper Midwest) in the Big Sky, talk about a scheduling mess. And I definitely don't see anyone else moving up, even if UND does.

I think your sentiment about NDSU/UND being a BSC package deal is absolutely ludicrous. The major (only?) hindrance to NDSU finding a conference is its location. If a travel partner is needed, the Bison have one in SDSU. I have no idea what UND brings to the table other than the currently comatose rivalry. The BSC has repeated its criteria for expansion regularly over the last few years: geography and academic quality. It's huge unstated standard is presence in a large markets (Northridge, Portland State, UNC, Sac-State). Concerns regarding athletic competiveness, commitment to gender-equity and student-athletes have also been voiced. I don't see for a second how UND trumps SDSU in any of these categories, though some are definitely arguable. Given the fact that SDSU is currently DI definitely gives them a leg up.

I give the Bison at best a 3-1 shot of being in the Big Sky in the near future, UND 8-1. But since you made the offer first I bet you a coke that UND won't be in the BSC by 08/09 (I'd love to be wrong on this one, but I don't see it happening).