Brett0909

Exactly. Every fan base thinks their teams got the bad call, bad draw, injury bug, etc. Turns out the same thing goes for UND’s opponents. We just don’t give them credit/grace when it happens to them. Add to it that UND is “lucky” to play at a home regional every other year. They’re lucky that even their away games have a healthy UND crowd. They’re lucky to have destination games, HoF games, charters, and every possible resource for recruiting top talent. What earns them this “luck”, despite operating in a small market? A loyal and rabid fan base, most of whom are committing capital. Sure those fans are demanding (and sometimes negative and whiney), but you can’t expect to be given everything as a program and then complain that expectations are too high. Berry knew what he was signing up for. Here’s hoping he can change the narrative to restore some harmony around here. Winning has a way of doing that.

Agree, and it would be great if any of us had that level of visibility (or expertise) to have that discussion. But it would also be pretty quiet and boring around here if expertise was a prerequisite to post. It’s an interesting argument that we should temper our criticism (or calls to change) the coach if we can’t articulate what he’s doing wrong. Although I really appreciate those defending him against the generalized frustration where the actual arguments don’t hold up… My unsolicited take? If Berry isn’t ACCOUNTABLE to the end-result (regardless of whether I can tell you precisely where he’s failing), who is? Every player, staff member, fan, etc contributes in their own way, but they merely play a role. The HC is the only position that is ultimately responsible for everything and shouldn’t be making excuses. They own the team’s result one way or another. He’s paid for this, and no doubt feels the weight of that responsibility every day. He has the resources to win in the post-season. It’s up to him to use every possible tool at his disposal to do it. The hard part is deciding the line between regular season success and post season disappointment to make a change. My line was a couple years ago when I realized I was confident they were going to lose in the post-season each year, and I no longer looked forward to filling out my bracket, taking regional days off to scout the “competition”, etc. I also stopped spending thousands of dollars on destination games that they consistently underperformed at. Maybe that makes me a bad fan and I hope to be proven wrong, but would ANYONE honestly put money on a Berry post-season game, regardless of the year/situation/“bad bounces”, etc.? I was (and am) ready for a change. But I won’t try to tell anyone else where their line is, there’s no “right” answer and likely only history will tell.

This. Every team in similar coaching situations needing to decide if occasional flashes or selective success are good enough, ultimately comes out stronger when they finally cut the anchor/HC. You can wait forever hoping for a different outcome, or just do the hard part of the business and make the call before it’s too late. Lucia, Berenson, York, etc. All major teams with HCs who had historical success that kept them around past their time to move on (more success than Berry). And that’s not counting teams like DU who lose a top tier coach like Monty and still uplevel after. UND athletics continues to have no urgency and cater to local politics, and it shows across the board with every sport having year after year of disappointment. Hockey lasted longer than most and deflected attention away from the even bigger issues in every other sport, but is sliding into mediocrity. Seriously, 1 win in the playoffs after his rookie season and now being outclassed by RMU and BSU with what should be a stacked team (minus injury issues). ?!?! It’s embarrassing to say the least. And for anyone who needs to hear it, this isn’t a recent overreaction. I didn’t like the hire, hoped I was wrong after his first year, and have been underwhelmed every year since. But he seems to have completely lost control at this point.

And you can blindly defend him all you want, but fans still have the right to criticize poor performance on a fan forum.

This part’s always stood out to me - Goehring has consistently maintained an NHL style bumper position on the PP, but they never score. Most of the time they don’t even get the shot off which is a recipe for an easy clearance the other way. They had one Grade-A shot from there last night which stood out because it’s so rare, but if they can make that position a true threat, it would be a game changer (paging Oshie) on an already reasonably effective PP. Until then, at least the bumper draws lots of defensive attention and opens up space up top, even if it amounts to a decoy position with our current system.

Maybe some (like customers, fans are supremely discontent), but things aren’t nearly as black and white as everyone on the boards seems to recall or overly-generalize. I never wanted to fire Hak, even if it was head scratching how things always fell apart at the F4. But I’d definitely trade a Berry for a Hak today, even if it meant maybe they don’t win the NC in 16’. Very hard to imagine the program wouldn’t have had greater year-to-year success, and be in a better position today. BUT it ain’t happening, so…we get to watch the team struggle to get back to where they were until some day when Berry hopefully figures it out. OR (and this is me, and many others), gradually lose interest, invest less time and financial support, and relegate ourselves to hoping to be surprised with some success instead of expecting it. A big bummer when the scales tip toward disappointment instead of joy, but thankfully there are tons of other sources of entertainment, especially for those of us outside of GFK. It wouldn’t hurt for us all to keep in mind though that everyone here cares (or they wouldn’t be on a fan forum), supports UND in their own way, and wants the team to succeed even if we have different opinions about what that entails.

Love it. Thx for collecting some of the greatest hits, it’s fun to see some posters that haven’t been around for years. At least we’re consistent! I laughed out loud at seeing stoney trying to calm down the overreactions on the first page I viewed, 10 years ago. Impressive resilience keeping up the good fight, I know it can’t be easy.

+1, I will miss the Friday game to be at MLS, and can’t justify the $25 minimum buy-in for Sat game only on the CCHA tv package (likely for a bad stream/production besides), but would be fine paying the Tier1 Midco plan for $10. Guessing stuck paying for the $25 package though?

This is the rub of it, right? And always fun to debate on things none of us are qualified to truly judge. (Sorry, I know we were trying to return to regularly scheduled programming).., I’d like to think if Berry was asked about each season since his first what went wrong, he’d give you a list of big and small things every year that he would’ve changed. Just part of the process for all coaches (or any professional for that matter). He’s competing against a lot of really good coaches who all want it just as bad, after all. It’s okay if he’s not the best. You take that list and shave off 10 or 20% of those things, and there’s a real chance that some of those seasons end differently- they make the playoffs, they make it to the FF, etc. Maybe Carle simply connects on that extra 10-20% of misses (recruiting, discipline, lines/in-game, drills and focus, mental aspects, etc.). I always felt Hakstol was an amazing GM, managing the team. And Berry was possibly the better game time coach and connected with the players. We saw a loaded Hakstol team that Berry led to victory…maybe neither would have done it on their own. I believe Berry’s a really good coach - likely top 5-10 in college hockey. I’m certainly rooting for his success. But I also believe the sample size is big enough now to know that Berry’s team is on the wrong side of needing bounces in the tourney - not 50/50 puck luck, but they just aren’t performing well enough to NOT NEED a bounce or two to go their way in order to win against good teams. Other than the shenanigans against BU, they certainly aren’t outplaying other teams but losing off of bad luck lately. If you listen to DU players, they 100% BELIEVE they’re going to win when it counts. UND players seem to be hoping lately not to lose in the postseason, and lose that belief in winning when things get hard (small slumps or full-on collapses that cost them the win). Compare to Sandelin’s NC teams or Carle’s last year - they were nearly flawless in their execution, even when playing more talented teams. Belief and mental resilience seems to be as good a driver as any I can come up with for the difference. This is an extreme example as Carle (results wise) is in a league of his own right now, like York was. But hopefully Berry’s taking notes and the optimists on the board get some vindication in the post-season soon. Berry HAS won (a share of, at least) the Spencer Penrose and dominated the regular season, so I’d say we’re debating first world problems…and I trust that he wants it far more than any of us and is giving his best.

Genuinely appreciate all your efforts to temper the ledgies who are prone to over-reacting on here…but are you really planting a flag that Carle is not a better coach than Berry, he’s just been luckier (year after year)? Maybe I’m misunderstanding… I think we can all agree luck is involved and you likely can’t win it all without a bounce or two…and Carle got more than his share last year. But we have a decade worth of evidence that something isn’t working for Berry when it matters most, and I SERIOUSLY hope he isn’t sitting around complaining that it’s just been year after year of bad luck. Even he seemed to acknowledges the need for changes to get a different result. What great coaches (vs. good) do, in the thousands of choices they make, we’ll never fully understand. But some elite coaches are consistently getting the results while some aren’t. Ultimately, Berry knows he’s judged by the final game of the year..I think it’s fair for posters here to also acknowledge that.

If my counting abilities are still accurate, I’d like to shrewdly deduce that we have 13 drafted skaters in tonight vs. their 9. Victory is assured! Also, in interesting news…every Friar forward line is rolling with a Fr, So, and Gr. Maybe that’s their answer to the Getter-Setter-Shooter approach.

Agreed on Emery’s size (at 6’3”), but hard for most of us to even comprehend how freakishly lean he is. Most competitive bodybuilders at show weight won’t ever achieve the 3.64% bf he registered at the combine. Even pushing him up to an average 12-15% bf of a solid college athlete, he’d be pushing close to 200# and we wouldn’t think anything of it. Adding 10# + of muscle (and even 10#) of fat, and he’ll be an absolute unit. Combined with his elite athleticism, it’ll be fun to see what he can do.

I think the point is that there could be a lot of reasons Brock experienced this. It sucks. Bad. Acting like it’s a statement of fact and tying it a political or anti-vax agenda isn’t helpful. Nor is it factual. Maybe check out some published studies on the now massively researched risk profile before making comments like this (hint, your risk of clots is exponentially higher from non-vaxed Covid infection than from the vaccine) or worse, making statements that Brock will regret getting the vaccine and cost him his career. The chances that a clot could occur from drugs (legal or not) or steroid usage (whether anabolic or cortico- again, legal or not) is SIGNIFICANTLY statistically higher than risk from the vax which is almost nonexistent. But you don’t see anyone accusing him of drug or steroid use just because he’s an elite athlete. Why? Because it would be incredibly irresponsible to do so and he’s a great dude that deserves better. Suggest we spend our energy putting goodness into the world for his recovery.

Boeser with the 2-1 GWG for Vancouver who takes a 2-1 series lead. Canucks outshot badly 12 to >30. JT Miller got the first goal.

I get the perspective, and likely agree more than I disagree. All things equal, I think a change is necessary to start the upswing and now’s the time. Curious what you’re suggesting exactly? I personally believe it’s also clear that all those programs I mentioned are in much better shape than they were before making the coaching change, but we can split hairs on whether being a NC runner-up the last two years (BC and UMN) and multiple FF’s (Mich) is success or your point implying it’s not…when comparing to UNDs ongoing struggles. Regardless, appreciate the perspective and attempt to calm the overreactions and hope this debate is old history come this time next year.