Bison_Kent

Bringing up the article is one thing. But spreading information of half truths on an opponent of NDSU's site is something else. I would equate the mastery of UND Fan to that of an NDSU fan posting a message of UND slamming the Minnesota hockey program. Has anyone ever seen an NDSU fan going to the Minnesota hockey forum and slam UND for something a UND fan said about Minnesota? No, I haven't and actually don't even know if a Minnesota hockey site is out there. This is how UND fans should be. They shouldn't care what Montana thinks. There is no relation of the U of Montana and UND.

I found this interesting that a UND fan can't go to a NDSU message board to post his dislike for NDSU. He had to go to the Montana Grizzly site to do it. I am not saying all of you UND fans are this way but this is why we NDSU fans find UND fans so terrible. You have to go through another message board to say how you feel. Here is the link to this site: http://www.egriz.com/GrizBoard/viewtopic.php?t=1452

The Sicatoka, I can't believe you are admitting Thomas messed up. Is that a first? Now UND is asking NDSU to make up for his mistake. Regardless of NDSU moving up, NDSU should have the home game in 2003 which would give 4 road conference games. I say if UND wants the two straight home games (like they did in the early 90s when the schedules were flopped or what ever), Let NDSU have three straight home to make up for it.

huskies679, Where is the speculations? I may have had some differences that were based on new information but never daily. That was way off topic anyway. NDSU has added two Mississippi JUCO transfers; one being a small, speedster (runs a 4.4-40) and another is a DT. I still think St. Cloud is the team to beat this year even if huskies679 doesn't. Here is my order of finishing: St. Cloud 6-1 (9-2) one NCC loss to South Dakota State NDSU 6-1 (8-3) one loss in NCC to St. Cloud UND 5-2 (8-2) two NCC losses to St. Cloud and NDSU

Pirate, There are no ties in college football anymore with the overtime periods now. So your logic is wrong as it couldn't happen. Sure, if UND wins the NCC, they will get the playoff spot but finishing second will by no means assures a spot. By playing all sub .500 teams in the non-conference, this counts against you. This was the arguement. The only way I see UND getting into the playoffs is by winning the NCC or a complete fallout in the MIAA. Otherwise, the best hope would be for a superior MIAA team (go undefeated) and have the second place team with 3 conference losses. This seems very impossible as the MIAA is very top heavy with Pitt St. and NW Missouri State and newly Central Missouri State as the cream of the crop. If UND finishes second in the NCC and any MIAA team finishes second in their conference, the MIAA team will most likely get the node as they will have a better "in-region" record score. Playing Crookston and the other sub .500 seems like it would not hurt UND but it will when it comes to the playoff selection time. On the other hand, if NDSU has just one NCC loss and three total losses (and Concordia-St. Paul does as well as they did last year in the NSIC), NDSU will have a better chance then UND in my opinion based on strength of schedule (espically inregion strength). This is basically doing a comparison of Concordia-St. Paul and Minnesota-Crookston. If Crookston finishes under .500 on the season and our near the bottom of the NSIC, UND's in-region score goes down. If Concordia-St. Paul finishes over .500 or even near the top of the NSIC, NDSU's in-region score goes up. All out of region games count but not as much as in-region games and head-to-head games. In-region games would be against NSIC and MIAA teams, as well as NCC teams. I can just see the whining if UND finishes with just one loss and does not make the playoffs. I wonder if the out-of-conference schedule next year will be a little better.

Pirate, I think if NDSU has three losses (one being in confrence), they would be picked over a UND if they have one conference loss and only loss this is assuming UND losses to NDSU. If UND wins, they will get the node as head to head will count more. But if both lose just one time (UND to NDSU and NDSU to St. Cloud) NDSU will get the node even if UND just losses this one game. NDSU's only plays one in-region game and that is Concordia-St. Paul. I would guess this win will count more then Crookston. All other non-conference games are not in the region.

With Northern Colorado already off to I-AA, who will win the NCC this year?

UNDvince97-01, If I was a playoff voter, I would not vote for UND due to the poor non-conference schedule. UND and many of other NCC teams seem to think scheduling pansies and still finishing 2nd in the conference will result in a playoff berth. This is not the case. Strength of schedule does effect if you make the playoffs or not. This year St. Cloud has seen the light and has scheduled Pitt St. in a non-conference game. Yes, there is a risk in scheduling these teams but I see the risk in not. If UND finishes second in the NCC, no one can complain not making the playoffs as someone from the MIAA probably will be more deserving for the final spot.

Could we also expect the Mid Con to expand westward since Southern Utah was added 6 years ago? Face it, geography plays a little role in the Mid Con's expansion efforts. They are looking for the best schools reguardless of geographical location. Of course, if they were looking for geographical reasons, NDSU and SDSU are closer to the core of midwestern schools then are the Texas schools. When 6 of the schools are in Indiana, Illinois, Michigan, and Missouri, they probably will have the deciding vote as this would be 2/3rds of the conference. As far as football helping, I agree with Bisonguy. Many I-AA schools had been part of the old college division before the moved up. NDSU played several of these teams in bowl games, playoff games, and in non-conference games during the regualar season. These teams view NDSU as a peer not a team trying to get more money coming up to Division I (like several small schools moving up just with basketball) as several of those schools have done doing exactly what we are now. Also, winning many football title reguardless of division seems to put you in several school's radar. Many people know of Mount Union of Division III because they have won so many titles.

I will agree with you on Gonzaga but only the hockey world knows of UND which is about 10% of the USA. I don't agree with this. I live near Wichita where Wichita State at best gets second page coverage under U of Kansas and Kansas State in the Wichita newpaper. Any coverage for the conference will help lead the Mid Con and will be a big reason. Also, another area that was not discussed was attendence. If media attention is such a low priority, lets look at attendence instead. NDSU had approx. 2,800 average per game in men's basketball. This is more then everyone besides SDSU who are moving up. Attendence yields money and will garner more media exposure. TV likes to see a packed house when they show a game. A half filled arena will not warrant as many TV appearances as one that is full. Recruiting will be helped by adding SDSU and NDSU because the people watching the game will see near full attendences. Here was my quote on the Oral Roberts board quoting the attendences: Texas-Pan America is the one with the most attendence behind NDSU. 800 more people per game and more home games meant NDSU had more then twice the total attendence of its nearest competitor. Come on, money is the ultimate reason for the Mid Con to expand. Attendence, facilities, and media attention will all be higher at NDSU then either Texas school or IUPUFW and thus has a better capability of getting money. Also, NDSU and SDSU have by far more support finacially speaking. Here are attendence figures for basketball for the other teams being considered: Texas A & M-Corp. Christi 1483 IUPFW 1217 SDSU 3491 UNC 637 UND 3423

I have problems with some of the other numbers as well. NDSU and the Fargo media will be by far the best of all these schools with the Grand Forks media probably second. The Forum has an article on the Bison almost daily of some sort. I am not sure how you can rate the other schools higher. They are lucky to get a small blurb in their major newspaper about the game the night before. I am assuming you are using Denver as the media center for UNC. But with Colorado, Colorado State, and Air Force in the area, these schools are still going to get top billing. The same can be said for the Texas schools with Texas-Austin, Texas A & M, Texas Christian, Texas Tech, Baylor, Rice, SMU getting more press then either of the Texas schools. Utah Valley State is a brand new DI school as well and have never even had DII sports before so they are not real attractive to other then to be a travel partner for Southern Utah. NDSU's AD Gene Taylor has said that meetings with the Mid-Con will be happening in the next few months. The Mid Con had been without a commissioner until about a month ago.

Going to DI was very thought of being easy. If it was everyone would move up. The first years are going to be tough. No one ever thought otherwise. It is the long term that we are looking at. There was some good news though in the article. Although an automatic bid can't happen for 13 years in the NCAA tournament, an at-large bid is attainable after the 4 year probationary period. I know the men's team probably won't compete for this (at least at first) but the women's team possibly could or at least an NIT bid. Also, football and wrestling won't be effected as heavily. These two sports are the top 2 men's sports at NDSU anyway. Wrestling might not have any probationary period. Also, four years is probably what we need to see how to compete at the I-AA level. I am all in favor of this even though we have yet to secure a current conference in any sport. NDSU is a division I school. I also think UND is for all sports as well. It will be just be a matter of time until the push is there at UND to do the same thing NDSU is doing.

Speaking as an outsider here but why build this? It seems like a very big waste of money even if it isn'ttaxpayer money. It seems to me like that Hyslap (although old) gives UND the exact same facility. I would think the money could better be used to make the new hockey arena basketball friendly. But just my thoughts. Really, I could careless but this looked interesting to me.

How is the State going to approve the project with no funding in place? Or is there some money left in the Englestead fund?

Just out of curiosity, how is this new project going to be funded?

This is why I think the new I-AA might help UND out the most. With just 7 schools in the league, it is open for UND to also be added for football. I would be very surprised if UND would stay much more then 5-6 years longer in DII. But the climb to I-AA from DII is only going to get steeper for UND with lower football scholorship numbers in DII. Moving from 32 to 63 is almost doubling the number. This also requires that 30 or so women's scholorships to be added. What sports will be added for the women? On the NDSU subject, it looks like we won't have too much trouble getting to the 63 max scholorships in the next 2-3 years. Here was an article on the NDSU Teammakers president in The Forum. http://www.in-forum.com/articles/index.cfm?id=35179

JimDahl, I don't think the Mid-Cont. is ever going to be concerned with NDSU or SDSU moving. At least not any more so then the other members of the conference. Football will most likely be in a different conference and if all goes well with that, why would we want to leave unless there is an all sports conference that we could go to? With the unstability of all of college atheletics now, there aren't any guarantees but I don't think either NDSU or SDSU would make any move until the 13 year probation it up. (Of course, this number may be lowered this summer with the Big West's addition of Cal-Davis and this Mid-Cont. expansion move). I would hope it would be 6-7 years if you get into an existing conference. We will see. I feel the Mid-Con, although maybe not as good for us as the Big Sky, is still a very good option.

Star2City, I don't think you are correct in your thinking on this one. By far NDSU & SDSU would provide more fan fare, who can bring the Conference more notarity, and more money for the conference. And you need colleges to do this. Having transition DII to DI schools, I think, will be picked if the money and notarity are there for these schools to outway the possibility of teams leaving. Also, only one team has left the conference in the past 6 years. The only team that has a chance of moving is Valpariso. Other then that, there aren't going to be any other changes in my opinion. The other schools won't have any better offers and still have a chance at NCAA national tournaments. This might be the reason Valpo stays in the conference as they have dominated the highest payout sport of men's basketball. Why leave when you have gone to the NCAA tournament 4 of the past 5 years? Will the same opportunity be there at the supposedly better conference? Probably not. Ultimately, money and national exposure will be the reasons the Mid-Con expands not to add current bottom feeder Division I independants. If they really wanted these schools they would already be in the conference.

At first, it did look like the Mid Cont. was the worst possible conference to be associated with. However, I am not so sure now. The reason we thought the Mid-Cont. was so bad was that they do not offer football. But the other sports are at least equal with the Big Sky, in my opinion. Look at what this conference has done in men's basketball. Valpariso has had success in the men's basketball tourament over the past 6-7 years with the exception of this year. They have pulled off many upsets in the first round and one year, I believe, made it to the Sweet Sixteen. They were knocked off by Indiana University-Purdue University, Indianapolis this year so it proves that it is not just a Valpo dominated conference. This would be very compariable to the Big Sky's basketball tournament reprentative over the same time period. In baseball, Oral Roberts has made it to the College World Series in the past and at least make a good run into the baseball tournament year after year. Baseball isn't a sport that the Big Sky offers. Another plus about the Mid Cont. would be the locations of the members. There are member schools in the following metro areas: Chicago, Detroit, Indianapolis, and Tulsa. These areas would be great recruiting areas which NDSU is just tapping into. Although, I still think the Big Sky would be the better possibility, the Mid-Cont. isn't as bad as we were intially thinking.

Star2City, I don't buy the notion that having a great sports team will bring in many students inside of the upper midwest. It might be the fourth thing on the list of reasons why students choose the school they choose. Student majors, campus buildings/dorms, and what there is to do in the college's city are going to be the components that students look for in choosing a university before any sports reason. I knew of many Twin City students that went to NDSU because of the NDSU pharmacy and engineering programs are known as being one of the top programs in the country. The only places that sports helps is out of the upper midwest area for students and university research dollars. Just about everyone in ND, SD, MN, Neb, and Iowa have heard of NDSU and UND for their accademic reputations and for the sports teams as they have teams in those states that play the ND schools.

I never said that UND wasn't known but not known for hockey in Kansas. They are known for basketball and football here. Hockey is not a sport people follow here or even care about. NDSU is also known for football probably because NDSU has played Pitt St. is several close battles in the playoffs. I am sure the same can be said of all non-hockey states. Ask someone in California if they know of UND or NDSU and most will say no unless your in the Davis area but more likely people will remember a DII football champion rather then a DI hockey champion in non-hockey states which would be 60% of the country. Face the facts, NDSU has had several Super Bowl participants (as mentioned earlier). Notarity is not going to be higher for UND just because of DI hockey. Notarity comes from football and basketball if you want notarity countrywide. UND has the capability of notarity in 20 states while when NDSU is Division I in all sports, notarity will be in all 50. I will take the notarity in all 50.

WYOBISONMAN, True, true, true. There are probably only 20 states in the US that support college hockey. All 50 support football. Almost every state in the country has a Division II team in it so if those people follow the DII football they know about NDSU and probably as of late UND because of this. Living now in Kansas, the only way people here know UND is from their football and the fact that the U of Kansas played UND in Grand Forks a couple years ago. Nobody here knows that UND even has a hockey program and could care less. It may be true that UND is widely known in the 20 hockey states but NDSU is known country-wide for football. Also, there have been several NFL teams that have had starters from NDSU on their teams to make NDSU widely known. Do the names Stacey Robinson (won a Super Bowl with the Giants in 1987), Tyrone Braxton (won two Super Bowls and went to multiple Pro Bowls with the Broncos), and Phil Hanson (played in three Super Bowls with the Bills) ring a bell? I still remember the Broncos-Packers Super Bowl when Tyrone Braxton intercepted Favre and Dick Enberg stated that Tyrone went to North Dakota State and won three national titles. Being a Bronco fan is probably why I remember but the fact is that these three players have gone to the ultimate championship game and has made NDSU known world-wide with their play. Yes, you will say that Eddy Belfour has won the Stanley Cup. However, you can't argue what the nation's top spectator sport is; football. Football will get more nationwide notarity (even at a lower level) then the top level of hockey when both win.

If anything, I was going negative towards putting all the money into hockey. I wonder why the UND athletic department can't put just a little bit into the football and basketball promonations and historical data. These sports have given conference championships and national championships to UND just as hockey has. My comments are more of a slam on the UND athletic department and the city of Grand Forks, not the football team. The are the ones that set the budgets for each sport. Scheduling is also done by the AD. Lennon is a fine coach and has to be admired in what he has done for UND. If UND was wise, you would listen to his pleas or you will soon be looking for a new coach. I may have been a little out of line with the whining comments (just trying to get a rise out of you Sioux guys as you would to us Bison) but this might be the only way a non-hockey coach can get additions at UND. I still believe this shouldn't have even been a topic as these banners and other additions should have been in place as soon as the Alerus Center was opened and budgeted in as part of the building's cost. Yes, this is a newsworthy ND story but it shouldn't have been an issue in the first place if the planning of the building had been correct to begin with.

Sirakota, You are finally seeing the light. Why would a local newspaper be used when a private All-Sioux forum could be? I am sure there are many readers of the GF Herald that could careless about UND and its atheletic shortcomings. The same could be said of The Forum and NDSU. This is why no outcries for money are seen in The Forum. Not having a couple thousand dollars for banners and posters in both football and basketball just proves that any excess money for atheletics goes to hockey. It doesn't matter how successful a non-hockey sport's team does as it won't be supported in the future with anything over the allotted money. This is probably why UND continues to schedule pansies for football's non-conference games as it can't payout anything over the minimum for games. This is no way to win recruits and win fans.

I am sure there was talk to the alumni and boosters to give some money towards adding these banners and signs and whatnot to the FargoDome. However, you didn't see Rocky Hager complaining and whining about in The Forum though. This is the point I was making. Why not bring this up at a fund raiser or booster meeting or speech to the boosters? Instead, Lennon took his message to the GF Herald. It sounds like whining and complaining to me. As for trying to be like NDSU, here is the direct quote from the news article, "The lack of such a display, Lennon said, hurts recruiting efforts, particularly when competing with rival North Dakota State University in Fargo". Just another way that UND is behind NDSU in football.