Bison_Kent

The meeting in February was a meeting of Big Sky athletic directors and presidents. It is the presidents of each university that decide on the expansion of the league. I do agree that if UND & NDSU were looking together instead of SDSU, but UND wasn't interested. It takes a 2/3rds majority to get into the Big Sky which means 6 of the 8 need to vote yes. With 3 already in favor of SDSU & NDSU getting in, it will require getting 3 of 5 to say yes. NDSU & SDSU are like Portland St. and Sacramento St. These two schools were former Division II schools that the Big Sky added approx. 10 years ago. At that time, I am sure Montana and Montana St. didn't want these schools for travel reasons for themselves. Since it is likely Montana and Montana St. voted to let them in to the conference , it is likely their influence can be heard in these newer members. The two newer members have not really been the great additions like the Big Sky had hoped. They wanted to expand to larger metro areas and choose these two schools. Also, with President Chapman's Montana St. influence, I think will lead to the changing of the minds of some of these schools. It might be let these two schools and you can remain. If not, we might vote you out. I wish UND would have said yes to I-AA when NDSU need. It might have helped both parties. But UND stated that they wanted to be in DII and stay there. Time will tell when and if NDSU gets into the Big Sky. But it is for sure will be without UND. I don't think there will be a 12 team league. It is just to hard to schedule that in a playoff Division. There would need to be a championship game between the two halves and I don't think that will happen. This may give one team a week off before the playoffs begin if the top two teams are from the same half. It would be unfair to that team and to the team that would go to the championship game. I think Idaho wrote its own fate when they left the Big Sky. Most university presidents would not want them back. They left once. What makes them think they might not try to leave again after getting a 10 year winning steak in I-AA? They did it once, most likely they will do it again. Travel is becoming a minor issue. Most teams have to fly to the others in the league anyway with the exception of Montana to Montana St. and Montana to E. Washington (there may be one or two others that are close enough to drive, I'm not sure). When you can go to two teams with one trip, I don't see the problems. Of course, this leads UND and NDSU back to a better travel relationship but SDSU isn't terrible. I think it is a 3 hour drive from Fargo to Brookings. The major issue that the Big Sky is going to look at is attendance and money. Will adding NDSU & SDSU, add to the overall money coming into the conference? If you look at attendance of both schools in both football and basketball, the answer is yes. NDSU would rank in the top 20 in football if the attendance would be the same as last year. SDSU would be in the top 20 (of the I-AA teams) in basketball in the country. NDSU & SDSU would most likely out rank half the current Big Sky in money generated. The issue of Southern Utah and Northern Colorado would gain the Big Sky little in attendance and notarity. Fargo is a large city that also supports its university. Brookings is smaller but there is much support there as well and Sioux Falls is very close. Sorry for being so long but I thought I would make several points in one message.

The Big Sky is not as dead as people once thought for NDSU & SDSU. If UND would have been smart, they would have joined NDSU in forces to join that conference. But if you snooze, you loose. SDSU saw the opening and joined forces with NDSU. WDAY reported that three schools right now favor NDSU & SDSU getting in. Two teams were dead against them and three teams were undecieded. I am just speculating that Montana, Montana State, and Idaho State are the three in favor of adding the NDSU & SDSU. The two farthest away teams are probably the two against the additions in Northern Arizona and Sacramento St. Weber St., Eastern Washington, and Portland St. are most likely the undecides yet. If these three vote yes, UND will be the one lost in the shuffle due to the idiocity of Roger Thomas. Where are they going to go except stay in the declining D2 or should I say DIII, Class A?

I had a closed poll earlier and the results are as follows: Yes, the teams should continue to play regardless of divisions------50% No, the teams should stop playing since NDSU will be in I-AA--------17% Yes, but only if UND also goes to I-AA-------------------------------------33% It seems that the majority want to see the game continue. I for one want it to continue. Cal-Davis and Sacramento St. are an example of a rivarly continuing for years even though the two were in different divisions. Of course, the two now are both I-AA. I predict that UND will be in I-AA 4-5 years after the Bison make the move. It seems UND is always a step or two behind NDSU in their progress. NDSU gets a dome stadium, UND copies 8 years later with a lower grade version.

I might give the edge in WRs to UND just from the number in that position but the two receivers NDSU recruited are top notch. A 6'5" reciever in Dragosavich that averaged over 20 yards a catch and a certain starter for this fall in Burrell who has speed. He and M. Johnson, along with the former Northwestern QB Stauss, make for a great three way combination. Also, it has been reported that all the freshman have signed up for classes this fall for NDSU. It is somewhat remarkable since the head coach that recruited them left the day before they signed. This tells a lot about a proven program like NDSU. NDSU will have a fluke bad year once every 25-30 years but it won't be for more then one year. The recruits see the chance at going to I-AA and know that they will be winners.

I'll admit football is NDSU's #1 sport. Hockey is UND's. Fan support for both sports is great. It is due to the history and current success seen in both programs. I am sure if either team had an Elite 8 basketball team year after year the support would be there for those teams as well. I am watching the Big Sky championship mens basketball game and I think the top teams in the NCC could compete in that league right now.

But how many South Dakota or St. Cloud State fans did you see in either the FargoDome or the Alerius Center? I went to Omaha last year for the NDSU/Omaha game and I think there was more NDSU fans there then Omaha fans. Even UND seems only to travel to Fargo. NDSU fans will go anywhere in the country to see the Bison. This is what the top I-AA teams like Montana have in their fans. I would guess that any NDSU road game is the hosts top selling game of the year, mainly due to the number of NDSU fans that go to the game.

I am not sure how UNC is getting away with it. I thought (by the NDSU I-AA Carr Report) that the team was to play a majority of Division I teams at the start of the four year probabitionary period (last year was their exploritory year). This would mean 4-5 games could be against D2 teams but the remainder would be I-AA or I-A teams. I am not sure that they are being compliant to the I-AA rules but I could be wrong.

Riverman, I would have gladly played for an Ivy League team even though they don't play in the playoffs. I would like to have gone to one of these schools for free and then get a six figure job offer right out of school. NDSU still holds the state record for a sporting event. 19,020 is the record to beat. Oh, that is right UND doesn't have a facility that holds that much so it looks like NDSU will the only one that can break that record in the near future. I am glad UND has 7 titles in hockey with a half Canadian roster on those teams. This would be like winning a NCAA soccer title with a half Brazilian roster. Win it with the majority being North Dakota and western Minnesota natives and get back to me. NDSU has 8 titles with that being the case in football alone with this kind of majority.

Riverman, I am not sure what your argument was trying to prove. Yale is an Ivy League team so sports are a second thought and they don't play for the playoffs. Yale's big game is always Harvard. Lehigh is a perennial playoff team (making it four of the past five years). William & Mary has made it twice in seven years. James Madison has made it to the playoffs three times in the past 9 years. These are all quality programs with quality attendance. They might not meet the standards that NDSU & UND have set but it proves both schools are I-AA caliber.

Here are the I-AA attendance figures for the 2002 season. NDSU would have ranked in the Top 25 even with a 2-8 record. Look out when the NDSU is in I-AA. I will predict a Top 10 attendance figure just as NDSU has had in the past 10 years in D2 excluding last year. I figure when the Bison are a full blown I-AA member we will have numbers resembling Montana's. http://www.ncaa.org/stats/division1%20foot...GATTENDANCE.pdf Also, note that the waiting period for the I-AA playoffs is 4 years from when the schedule is a full I-AA schedule. It is a total of 5 years but one being classified as a reclassification year and the school can remain in the current division. This is where NDSU is at next year. In the 2008 season, NDSU will be eligible for the I-AA playoffs with or without a conference. Conference affiliation does not mean a quicker period. I found this out on I-AA.org.

Maybe we all could donate a dollar or two and get Siouxrock Hooked on Phonics and maybe a dictionary. I have heard he is in high school. It doesn't say too much about his high school.

The Sicatoka, Can the Alerus be expanded? Actually, 13,500 would be on the lower half of the list. Also, many of the Big Sky, Southern, and Gateway schools are in the 16,000+ range. These are probably the top three conferences in I-AA. Just thought I would point that out.

Actually, the FargoDome would be in the top 30 stadiums in capacity in I-AA so expansion is probably not needed. Montana will have approx. 23,000 in its capacity for this year. 19,000 is about the right amount. Here is a list of the capacities in I-AA. http://www.cae.wisc.edu/~dwilson/rsfc/StadIAA.txt

I was one that wanted the Bison to go outside. I was in favor of Terry Allen or Dennis Wagner or Craig Bohl. Every time in the past that the Bison had a losing record they went for new blood. Bohl is the best of both worlds. He was on the 1984 national runners-up coaching staff at NDSU and has been part of national titles at Nebraska. I think Nebraska was stupid to let him go. I never wanted Rocky and Bradley was kind of my pick if all others went down. I think he is going to turn the Bison around next year. He did it at Duke in 1994. He was the right choice to lead the Bison into I-AA.

I see that Siouxrock is just as irritating on this site as he is on the bisonville site. I think UND will eventually move up to I-AA and will be in the near future, 2-3 years. It might depend on NDSU & SDSU. If a new conference is the route NDSU & SDSU go, it will happen for sure in that time period. If an existing conference pick NDSU or SDSU, it might be tougher for UND. NDSU waited a year to allow such a move to happen but it seems only SDSU has taken the offer. Time will tell. People think the Big Sky opportunity is not dead. I personally think it is but there still is the Gateway conference which only has 8 teams right now. But a non-football conference would also be needed. I want the UND rivalry to continue even if it is a D2 vs. I-AA. I hope UND also moves up.

Could we also add UND to that list? I think it would be possible but the first choice would be to get into an existing conference. I think Division I-AA would like a second true western conference so the Nevada State, Central Oklahoma, Southern Utah, Northern Colorado, NDSU, and SDSU, Utah Valley, and possibly one other western team be a great conference. Eight teams is the minimum needed to be considered for an automatic bid. I wouldn't add Wayne St. or Central Missouri. I think the place to expand I-AA is west. The Big Sky is the only true western conference now. I have not heard of the Nevada State University. Do you have any information on this? I think if a new conference is created it would be one for all sports not just football and another for the other sports.

I don't think the Illinois, Iowa or Indiana schools would be too concerned. If they schedule a game and beat NDSU that should help their recruiting efforts. Of course, it might go the other direction if NDSU wins but that will put their recruiting efforts higher in the Chicago area. I think they would be wise to schedule. Otherwise, without a game, more recruits will come to NDSU; especially if NDSU wins and some of the players make it to the pro ranks; such as Lamar Gordon and the offensive linemen that have made it recently. I agree with you on the basketball issue. Most likely the teams that would come to Fargo would be the lower end D-I teams. NDSU would go to the Wisconsin's and Minnesota's. After thinking about it, it might be wise for the non-football sports to get into some kind of conference such as the Mid-Continent or the Horizon. I have also posted that maybe NDSU should loose SDSU as a partner. Both the Horizon and Mid-Continent have 9 schools. They might be interested in adding one team but not two.

What I was saying was that we (NDSU) will develope new rivalries and for two or three years it really won't matter if there is a new conference or if it is an independent schedule. They will all be new teams to the fans. The fanfare might be that team made it to the playoffs last year or that team has a local player on it. It is going to take time no matter if there is a conference or not to develop these rivalries. As for your other response, you are correct with the basketball playoffs but football is different. If you have a current conference affliation then the time frame is 5 years from when you first declare for the reclassification; counting the one year of still being in Division II. If there is no current conference affliation, the waiting period is 8 years for independent teams or new conferences. Basketball would not matter for NDSU as much as football. If there are some top teams like Minnesota or Wisconsin or Nebraska or Creighton that come to NDSU to play, the crowds will be there just to see the team play because they are a top team. This 13 year wait was just implimented. In my opinion,if you get associated with a conference with an automatic bid, it won't be 13 years to wait. That wait period is idiotic.

There will never be a D1 NCC unless there are teams that are not currently in the NCC included. If NDSU does not get into the Big Sky, they have four years to find a conference. What is the difference if you are in a D-I-AA conference or if you are an independent? If a conference is not found right away, NDSU can play other conference teams from the Gateway, Ohio Valley and the Big Sky in home & home games. This will allow alumni and fans and administration from those schools show what NDSU has to offer. When they come to NDSU, they will see how impressive the school is and how well NDSU would fit into their conference. Getting a new conference would be the last resort. The probation period for a new conference is a lot longer then if a current conference is found.

Here is a poll to see if fans of UND and NDSU would still like the two teams to meet after NDSU is I-AA in 2004

I disagree with the Sioux fans. The new Bison coach, whoever it will be, will have this team under him. That is going to be one of the requirements when Gene Taylor hires him.