61hawk

If only there was a way to gut the interior of those buildings and install modern air handling systems. Maybe those making decisions could contact the good people at Johnson Controls for answers.

Ha!!! You take things way too literally. I also said that there are buildings on every campus that hold little to no historic value to the of the architectural value to the historic portion of the campus. On most old campuses those buildings of historic value are in the center of the campus and surround a horseshoe or square. Many buildings built in the 1960's - 1990's were little more than generic brick boxes with no redeeming features. The Walsh quad has historic value, the cinder block married housing buildings on the west end of campus that have been torn down did not. Hyslop has historic value, the science building west of Hyslop does not. The Chester Fritz auditorium as much as I don't like the look does have historic value, the Fine Arts building across the coulee not so much... actually most of campus west of the English Coulee has no historic or architectural value. The old President's ranch style house, nope. Just my opinion. As much history as the old hockey arena had, it was a seriously ugly building that I still hated to see it go but what else could it have been used for? Storage??? Gamble Hall is an ugly building, not as ugly as the science building I mentioned, but could be renovated for modern classroom and office space. Maybe if I'm ever on the Notre Dame campus again I'll bring up the idea of getting rid of that old football stadium and have them put up a gigantic quonset looking building so the fans and players won't have to play in a non-climate controlled atmosphere.

Sorry, I'm not much of a cheerleader or sunshine pumper as some here. Would it help if I presented my credentials to help back up my concern about the future of Hyslop? I do have a 4th if needed, I just don't remember where it is.

Does the picture of you have guy on the left turned around and facing the other direction?

Is UND really now supposed to be called "The UND"? That's almost as retarded as when the University of South Carolina went from USC to UofSC and the last I heard has returned to USC.

Okay, so what Schafer did is what every President should have done in office. Schafer's highpoint in his short tenure was to do his job correctly. Face it, UND hasn't had a decent president since Thomas Clifford.

Okay the North Dakota University System... same thing as a Board of Trustees. Most universities I work with report to a BOT, not a state-wide board. If only you knew the embarrassment I am feeling, it's almost as bad as a spelling or grammatical error in a forum post. From now I'll just use "the Board" to reduce confusion. What did Schafer do at UND that wasn't already in place on Day One of him stepping foot on campus? Can you give me at least one example just to satisfy my curiosity? True, you don't have to do anything for me, I'm just wondering if you actually have anything, or if this is just your way of bluffing. Schafer signed off on the removal of "Fighting Sioux" and move to "Fighting Hawks", but that process took a little longer than the six months he was there. I have a close friend who was on that name change committee, and let her know how F'd up it was from the day she let me know she had been appointed to the last time I talked to her around Christmas. It sounds like you had an inside source at the workings of UND, I too have a source in the administrative buildings at universities such as Yale, Vanderbilt, Duke, University of Florida/South Carolina down to several community colleges you've never heard of, that doesn't mean I have first hand knowledge of what the President is doing at any of those locations.

You sure are good at categorizing people, even though you're again wrong. I think you're giving Schafer a little too much credit considering he was at UND for what... 6 months. He was there on an interim basis, he was on a leash held by the Board of Trustees, he was there to put out fires that reached his office and to give the commencement speech in May. Mark Kennedy was there for two years before announcing his resignation, he put his own interests above those of the university and only used UND as a stepping stone for a job at a larger university. He went onto the University of Colorado where he accomplished little, his major accomplishments were to hire a diversity officer (which every university in the country was doing at the time) and to move to online learning because of COVID (which every university in the country was doing at the time). Yes Mark Kennedy is a pioneer in the world of higher education!!! Prove me wrong instead of being a cheerleader for both of these "leaders".

An architect and an engineer, if you'd have taken up marine biology instead of engineering you'd be a regular George Castansa.

Every campus has good and bad buildings... it just seems like UND feels they have more bad buildings than good buildings and demolition is the only answer. My comments aren't going to change anybodies minds, but doesn't mean I can't disagree with the plan. Visit Yale some day and walk through their buildings, many interiors will surprise you especially when you look at the exterior and expect more of the same inside.

The Carmichael Towers were something looked like Chicago housing projects. They made it 55 years from construction to demolition. There is nothing special or historic about either tower. To be concerned about them would be like being concerned about the married housing apartments at UND that were torn down in the 1980's and 1990's. Every campus has something on campus that doesn't match and has no historic value, I'd even go as far to say the entire Gamble Hall building at UND fits that comment... even though I spent most of my classroom time in that building. There is nothing special about the architecture or history of the university in that building. My favorites are the raw poured concrete exterior buildings you see on many campuses, it's as if the architect was told to cut construction costs by 50%. If you want to see how things are done right, take a look at West Point's renovation projects. https://www.westpoint.edu/USMA-2035/academic-infrastructure/academic-building-upgrade-program

If NDSU really wanted Schafer or Kennedy, I'm sure either would jump at the chance. It sounds like the one person you talked to may be in the minority on these two leading the university. I realize that to you Schafer and Kennedy could walk into any Ivy League President's office, since you seem to think they walk on water. Isn't it interesting that top research universities tend to keep their historic buildings and UND under the watch of the honerable Schafer and Kennedy decided it was best to demolish and rebuild. If they were in such demand why aren't they leading any university these days? Did Kennedy even make it two years before the Colorado Board of Trustees told his to GTFO?

And it has absolutely nothing to do with the current mascot.

You can say that about every university and college. Employers are learning this and starting to consider experience in place of a 2 or 4 year degree for many jobs. Example: 4 year degree and 2 years experience, or 2 year degree and 4 years of experience, or 6 years of experience. I've hired or been involved in hiring over 100 employees and in most cases I valued experience over the degree. Most universities could probably cut 50% of their majors offered. 90% of liberal arts degrees are nothing more than a pathway to working at Starbucks.

Ask Southern Cal how well working with "for profit" snake oil salesmen 2U worked out for them. I know the people who had to go in and straighten that mess out... and it involved a lot of budget cuts and layoffs. I know of other colleges/departments around the country that have used or looked into using 2U thinking it was going to be a money making proposition, when it was anything but that. https://www.forbes.com/sites/edwardconroy/2023/05/13/former-master-of-social-work-students-are-suing-usc/?sh=a3afec590d2c

Wow, people actually approved of Schafer and Kennedy? Ed Shafer was a nutjob when he was governor, I can only imagine he didn't change as President. Kennedy wasn't qualified for the job when hired, just ask Colorado, they booted him after two years. Half a billion, were they planning on tearing down 75% of the campus? I get it, you're all for raising the campus and building new. Let's line up the bulldozers at the east end and not stop until we hit the interstate. When you talk about outdated, I suspect you're talking about the interior and not the exterior... hense the renovation instead of demolition. In 50 years we can do it all again, because a modern building isn't going to look very well in 2073, look at how those 1973 built buildings look. That areospace building has to be showing it's age by now, they built it when I was there 40 years ago. Is that old Presidents house still in front of Gamble Hall? Might as well knock that down and throw up something modern.

So that's your professional, engineering/architectural opinion?

They put in bleachers on the ends of the gym floor for games like the NDSU basketball game. Plus those game were usually standing room only.

That's exactly what I've been talking about the whole time. Some of the buildings I've worked on were no better than Hyslop. The latest the university gutted the building to the four exterior walls, they even pulled the roof and basement floor and renovated. From the outside the building is 90% the same as it was when it was built back in the 1940's with the only difference being an addition of expanding the lobby with a board room on the 2nd floor.

Fire - 1977, stabbing - 1980

Why is that house coming down? That's a frat house that I can't see needing to be replaced. Hell the Sigma Nu house burned to the exterior walls and they stabbed a guy to death in it and they rebuilt back to original with a fire suppression system. But to be fair, the frat houses aren't university owned property. Is the SAE house still standing? That was a fun rush house, back when wet rush was allowed... $5 for an admission card good for the whole week of drinking at any house. Nothing like attending UND back in the 80's. I always thought it was funny that Sigma Nu at UND was the ultra-douchy preppy fraternity on campus (with Sigma Chi a very close second) and SAE was the Animal House fraternity whereas at NDSU it was just the opposite. I knew Sigma Nu'ers who wouldn't even acknowledge their brothers at NDSU.

I'd' say the Beck/Walsh/Squires dorms to begin with, Dorms are easy to renovate. There were some buildings the block or two to the east, I don't remember the names but I remember I took Comp I in one of them. They went down a few years ago. I haven't kept up with everything that's been torn down since I don't live in the area, but UND's procedure for renovation is to demolish and rebuild rather than renovate existing buildings. In 50 years these buildings will be trashed and it'll start all over.

So your decision is to go from sunshine pumper to the "you're old" comment. I will always be a Fighting Sioux fan, while you'll always be a fan of Mike Hawk. Now that you're showing your age, just know that some of us... maybe more than a few may just have banged your mom if she went to UND. This message to me explains a lot: ChrisUND1 Started conversation: 1 hour ago Trump lost. Vaccines work. Go UND Fighting Hawks. Let’s take this private. Thoughts on things I’ve said?

Late to the party but the discussion of declining enrollment is the current hot topic at every college and university in the country. The only schools l that aren't pushing the panic button are some of the more prestigious private universities. 10 year forecasts aren't good, look at the number of 3rd graders in grade schools (college freshmen in 10 years) compared to what they were a decade ago or two decades ago. K through 2nd grade numbers are even lower. Throw in AP courses in high school, the cost of obtaining an undergraduate degree, and the increase in employers who now are not requiring a college degree for many positions and you have the perfect storm for declining enrollment in higher education. Some larger universities are projecting up to a 25% decline in enrollment in the next 10 years. I wouldn't be surprised to see UND's enrollment hovering around 10,000 students in 2033. Enrollment was around 13,000 if I remember correctly back in the mid-1980's when I attended. 40 years later it's just above 14,000. I really believe we'll start seeing smaller schools in ND closing their doors if they can't draw students away from UND, NDSU and Minot and UND, NDSU and Minot cutting majors that are not profitable.

University of South Carolina Navy ROTC building Glass block windows could easily be replaced with clear glass. I was thinking more along the lines if if they were to add a second floor to the gymnasium area of Hyslop to make it classroom and office space. The exterior walls would have natural light, the interior offices wouldn't unless they made the center into an atrium or courtyard space.