Chief Illiniwek Supporter

Really? Which ones? I'm not aware of any school that turns them down. Wisconsin will play them. As a matter of fact, they just played in basketball last year IIRC. Which schools "will not schedule (FSU) because of their nickname"? The city fathers of Sioux City Iowa have to be wondering how much it will cost them to change. After all, if the tribes vote to make them change, keeping the name would "just be plain wrong". Oh yes, everyone else sees the light now. You've raised so many issues that have never been discussed before; and with irrefutable logic too! Full agreement.

If I read this post right, you seem to be of the opinion that three years of negotiations will yield a satisfactory result. I have to wonder what will make the years 2007-10 any different than 2004-07; or for that matter any 3-year period from apx. 1985 to the present. Certainly those years were just as long, and equally capable of being "enough time": yet nothing has been accomplished. Adding a deadline is counterproductive IMHO. If there was enough of a loophole because of the NCAA's failure to follow procedures, what does the settlement do to remedy this? Neither a change in stated procedures nor a "follow thru" of current rules seems to be in the offing. I don't understand exactly what will be required to obtain "tribal support" (and I suppose that tonight nobody outside the negotiations understands that). But if you need all the tribes to get behind your name, it seems to me that you have just handed veto power to a group as small as a plurality of the smallest tribe. If so, even if the largest tribe was to vote 5,000 to zero in support of the nickname, a tribe of 200 people could vote 101-99 the other way and negate the first tribe's overwhelming support. Again, I cannot see that as being productive. IF you think that UND could get support, why even negotiate for a settlement with the NCAA? Announce the support and let the NCAA twist in the wind. And "cheap" can be measured in a number of ways. Yes, you stop the clock on the lawyers, but you start the clock on losing contributions the minute you announce an unpopular settlement. Which way is "cheaper" is a matter of opinion. And its JMHO, but only one of those ways has an unlimited downside. At this point there are far, far more questions than answers and the three paragraphs in the paper aren't helpful at all IMHO. I'll be eager to see the actual terms, if and when they do come out. On a totally different point: political corruption in CHICAGO?? Pshaw. Pure as the driven snow.

Well, that's interesting. The backpedaling-that one is a no brainer, "we messed up, forget all about that FSU deal, talk to you after the weekendbuhbyenowwegottagoseeya!!!" is an easy call. But I'd think those dopes would be proud of their PC statement to announce that speaking for the majority of schools who they never asked, they've decided that we don't want to play with you guys anymore.... This announcement is coming from your school though. I guess I don't see any reason why your school would want to delay good news at all. And I would call a win over the NCAA good news; and I think most of your alums would too. So who knows. We'll find out more tomorrow.

Guys, I am rooting for you here and I hope the NCAA takes it right up the exhaust pipe. But I also look for what else may be happening when big news is announced. Its common here that unfavorable news is announced late on a Friday so as to miss the daily newspaper cycle and also get buried on Friday night's TV news (usually a low ratings draw). And it seems like both your football and hockey teams are away this weekend, so there is no reason for the alums to be visiting campus. My thought is that if there was bad news, it would be hard to find a better time to bury it.

Ah ha!! Thanks!! To be honest, in my own mind I couldn't get past the idea of the "pom-poms" used in cheerleading. So I was totally mystified. Thanks again!

Exactly. The story IS important: and judgements about exactly what is and is not important are made by the public, not the editors of newspapers nor any other media outlet. Any editor or newspaper is free to ignore the story and either reap the benefit of redeploying scarce resources or potentially incur the costs of lost readership/circulation/advertising. But complaining about how your readers are making you cover a story isn't very bright. Do not complain about stories "not going away" because stories are the only reason you're in business. When stories go away, so does your raison d'etre. Frankly, Illinois seemed to run into the "gee I wish we could stop talking about this" people too. And of course, the way to stop talking about it was to cave to the NCAA. I think you'll see this attitude mostly from younger people (at least that was my experience) and IMHO its not a good sign. This is when the administration starts making cold, hard decisions about how much they need the older alums and their dollars. Good luck with that. Make your voices (and $$) heard!! Its JMHO, but the info about a 40-year old club membership would have come out sooner or later. I agree with those who think it will become fodder for an appeal, but OTOH I also have to believe that such an appeal won't go very far. Finally, an editorial today about our homecoming parade: UI campus becomes a no-free-speech zone PS: don't ask me what "pomming" means.

(I changed the emphasis from the original in order to focus on the dates.) I quickly reviewed the posts containing the news articles, and I can't find any significant articles published between those two dates. I'd say the recent discussion of exactly what the "Veteran's Committee" said was the closest thing to a divisive series of articles, and that seemed to occur over Labor Day AFAIK. Does anyone have an idea as to which articles/controversy the judge is thinking about?

IIRC, the other school on the watch list is Bradley, with the Braves. They got down to that by emphasizing that they only use the letter "B" as their symbol these days. I am not aware of any time limit on the watch list, but that doesn't mean such a limit doesn't exist. For myself, I wouldn't be satisfied with just five years. I was afraid to say anything more than 20, I don't know what legal effect a longer term might have. Personally, I'd go with at least the old 99-year term (if you can't get 9,999 years). I thought the way that the NCAA would be able to declare victory and go home would be to find a namesake tribe and just say "hey, they have just as much right to accept the nickname as the other tribes have to protest it" and then let the job of placating/satisfying that namesake tribe on a continuing basis fall to your school-just like FSU and Utah. But I also think that both sides are pretty "dug in" to their positions right now.

I'm thinking that image is from some sort of a video game, if you can call that kind of entertainment a game. I can't. I don't know anything about the are of campus where the body was found but I hope the remains aren't dated from an era that was before the arrival of European settlers; otherwise your construction project will be held up for years if it gets completed at all.

Here is my question then: how can your side agree to being on an indefinite "watch list" status that can be rescinded at any time? One year from now the NCAA can say they are reviewing the names on the watch list-and suddenly your school will be placed right back on their "S" list with no home playoffs, etc. Or it might not even take a year, it might be the spring. Its just my opinion, but without a substantial, solid "we won't touch your nickname for 20-odd years" statement from the NCAA such a pretrial settlement has no value for North Dakota. I would think that whatever dollars expended so far had been wasted if all I got was a vague "well, we'll think about it for a while" settlement.

Please. Your contract probably contains either a liquidated damages clause or a buyout clause or something that has the same effect. You don't want to specifically perform? Pay a certain amount of money and your "contractual obligations" are discharged. This is really the heart of the matter. Dollars first, principles second. Sound like a very, very old profession?

I've been talking about the "borders of the Continental United States" for a while since I know that Hawaii gets a pass with their "Warrior" nickname, but I did look up Alaska right now: Here's a link to their "Nanook" page-did anyone get a signoff from the Inupiaq Eskimo group??? http://www.uaf.edu/uaf/athletics/index.html

I can tell you this much: AFAIK, our professor who was sending out "information" to HS recruits in an effort to sabotage our athletic programs has not donated even a penny to the Athletic Department since Chief has been retired. Not even the cost of the stamps he no longer has to buy. But OTOH, a group of the men who have protrayed Chief down thru the years have gotten together to fund a scholarship for Native American HS students who wish to attend Illinois.

First of all, I hope it never comes to that for your school. But playing along with your hypothetical for a moment, I would anticipate a backlash from some "I want to be constantly offended and continually identify myself as a victim" group no matter what name you might choose.

Ooops, my mistake. Thanks for pointing that out. I should have said "before any nasty ol' European types" instead of saying Pilgrims. But that does bring up a question: how do you define "native American"? What if some of Leif Erickson's crew had stuck around and, uh, "married into" one of the native tribes? Would those descendents be just as "native" as the ones who have no European blood? Do they get to vote a la the Seminole and Ute "elections" for okaying a school name? Oh well. I'm sure the NCAA has someone working on that problem 24/7, 365.

SDSU went thru this at least twice: committees, revised logos, sensitivity meetings, etc. They've laid out plenty of cash to placate the whiners. If they tried to reverse course now they'd run into a bit of opposition. Hey, there aren't any Spartans within the Continental United States, are there? I guess its okay to offend the Greeks as long as they weren't here before the Pilgrims. After all, they're thousands of miles away: the Aztecs are merely a few hundred miles from the border.

Yes, I can see that by siding with the knee-jerk liberals on this issue you're staying out of a "controversial debate". Of course, if you had swung over to the other side, then you'd be right in the middle of the controversy, but this way you've stayed out it. Good thinking. "Doesn't have a stake"?? I think as an NCAA member, you're on the other side of a lawsuit that could cost you a few dollars. Like it or not, Minnesota does have a stake. BTW, Iowa was so hung up on their policy that they ignored it for years: and they actually played the Bradley Braves at least once after their "ironclad" policy was put into effect. The Iowa administration cancelled the remaining games and paid off the contract once the Iowa student government called them out on their noncompliance. Wisconsin (and perhaps Minnesota too) has a backbone of balsawood on this issue. They claim an exemption for postseason play (including bowl games in football) and somehow they played Florida State in basketball during the regular season last year too. I have a feeling the exemptions are based mostly on dollars and television exposure. But who am I to say that? I'm sure that when the Badgers played Florida State they sent over a really nasty note to the coach, expressing solidarity with those poor, oppressed, downtrodden Seminoles who were ready to be a party to any lawsuit brought by FSU against the NCAA.

http://www.nvbooks.nevada.edu/books.asp?ID=1908 (emphasis added) I wonder what that affadavit had to say?

Yes, its axiomatic that each and every dollar that is now being donated to the lawsuit would automatically and undeniably go ONLY to the University if the lawsuit was dropped. Not a penny would go to the American Cancer Society. Or the Red Cross. Or local children's hospitals. (this is where you need that Rolleyes emoticon.) Plus, dropping the name that is favored by an overwhelming majority of alums would undoubtly engender good feelings going forward, leading to even MORE donations in the future. (again, you need the Rolleyes emoticon-I'd use it twice here.) I think people who can only see one side to this issue can only see one side to the idea that the donations (increased or decreased) are tied to the nickname. As far as the issue with Minnesota, all you can do is continue to play them in hockey, etc. and hopefully beat them every single time. The more that happens the more they will look like they're ducking you in football. Will it cost you some cash? IMHO, yes. They're a close (in terms of distance) rival and I'm thinking that you'll spend more in travel (and recieve less in recruiting benefits) by being forced to go elsewhere. But IMHO, that's a small price to pay. The ultimate decision is up to your AD and BOT. One thing to consider is that the # of times you'd actually play the Gophers is probably limited. You'd be offered a contract that would mean two games at their home with one at your place, and the game at your stadium would probably be bought out before it could be played. And then you'd be looking at 3-4 years before they'd look to schedule you again. So I think you're looking at replacing 2 guaranteed games and a buyout fee. That's just a guess.

A nationally syndicated newspaper columnist who's work is often carried in the editorial sections of papers is an alum of the University of Illinois. Rumor has it that a column to be published in the near future will contain these quotes: What he doesn't mention is the the names of the two Democrats who pandered to their racial minority base and killed off Chief: the President of our State Senate, Emil Jones Jr.; and our (incredibly unpopular and genuinely stupid) Governor, Rod Blagovich. At one time Blagovich fancied himself as Presidential material. Now its almost a foregone conclusion that he won't even be re-elected to his present office. It couldn't happen to a bigger clown.

Will the Indians demand a royalty payment from the NCAA for letting them run a Lacrosse tournament? After all, its pretty much a known fact that this game originated here among the Native Americans. Or maybe ALL of the teams will have to dress as the Native players did in the 1700's. Did the Indian women participate in these games?? Uh oh, potential clash of the political correctness geeks: Title IX screamers vs. those resolved to "respect indigenous cultures" .

We've got this group in Chicago too. Thankfully, we have more rail transit than most other cities; but trucking companies, bus drivers, etc. aren't happy about the disruption once a month. In the short run, you're correct: you have no choice. In the long run, as many employees leave for the burbs and tell their bosses "listen, I've got one life on this earth: I want to get to my kid's Little League games, and I don't need to watch some barefoot clown ride a unicycle while blowing soap bubbles who thinks that by taking time out of MY schedule that HE'S personally responsible for saving the universe." As jobs move out, greedy politicians will realize that these leftover protestors of life in general don't pay taxes. When the raises for the police start lagging, their attitude will be a little less sanguine too. That's when things will change. I've often wondered what the press will say when some 90 year-old dies because an ambulance couldn't get to her place in time because of the traffic tied up by naive dopes dressed up as sea turtles with no knowledge of what they're supposed to be protesting but a great deal of motivation to "get in on the party". Especially if said 90 year-old is the mayor's mother. Side note: with all the emphasis on going green, did anyone else notice the headlines a few weeks ago saying that the emerging nations were telling the industrialized world "our economy first, then saving the environment"?? And a final note in response to the repetitive trolling: does anyone know how the Indians themselves are dealing with the consequences of the unknown number of centuries of "Indian-on-Indian" wars? I mean, what if 1000 years ago the Sioux ran the Utes (or whoever) off the Great Plains, forcing the Utes into generations of roaming infertile lands, eeking out a bare substanence in the infertile mountains and causing starvation on a massive scale?? I mean, if you want to blame the victim go ahead, but.... well, instead lets just continue to rely on guilt and the "known" (or guessed) actions of those evil European settlers. After all, the only ones to blame are those who built boats and sailed them to the Americas. If your race was here before written history then you're blameless and entitled to neverending victim status.

Sign idea for the LA Coliseum: "Trojans are ......... not mascots"