MplsBison

Exactly. It's so simple. Poly and Davis need games. The end. The GWFC teams can play Poly and Davis OOC anytime they want too!

They have seven core members right now (after Chi State and Valpo leave) and IPFW will replace Centenary. They'll still have seven core members (SUU, UMKC, IUPUI, IPFW, WIU, ORU, Oakland). NDSU, UND, SDSU, USD does not equal the NCC. It merely equals the top public schools (IE, the dakota flagships) from the old NCC. If you want to start talking about Saint Cloud and Mankato, then maybe that's 15+ years, sure. But UND and USD will declare 07-08 as exploritory with the Great West picking them up in 08-09 and the Mid Con picking them up that same year or a couple years later.

Fully agree Star2. Aff simply doesn't want USD to get into the conference. Nothing more that sickheaded, blind hatred of the other school in the state. Right, as if the GWFC is going to say "WHOA! We've got six members now! We're not going to consider anyone now!". BS. Double BS. Davis and Poly are great members. I hope they decide to stay. If traveling to Grand Forks, Fargo, Brookings, and Vermillion every two years is too much for their athletic budget, so be it. Good luck as an I-AA independent. And the real truth is that once their stadiums are fully upgraded, Davis and Poly are probably out of I-AA anyway. They'll be in the WAC with Sac State and San Jose State. And SUU is going to drop football probably after the 2007 season. Hello USD! (that's U South Dakota, not U San Diego)

None.

The California schools don't have much of a choice. If they want, they can leave the Great West and be independents. Maybe that's the better option for them if more NCC schools step up and join. NDSU and SDSU can't control which of the NCC schools upgrades to DI. But we sure as heck can schedule them and save massive amounts of money on travel. And since we can't control that, we also can't control the fact that we'll be competing for the same local recruits as they will. That's just the way it is. No use in even talking about it.

Recent history will have no effect on the present and future. The Mid Con won't add a school that doesn't have baseball. Don't even bother worrying about it. Even if UND declared interest in cutting baseball tomorrow, the program would fight the move and survive long enough to get UND in the mid con. Neither of which have approached the Mid Con for baseball affiliation and neither of which would be allowed to join only for baseball. Absolutely correct. Baseball in North Dakota doesn't work until May, at the best. Won't happen. You'll be seeing a lot of NDSU and SDSU home games cramed into the time in May. Those teams won't be heading up north in the April winter. SU was already in the WCC in the 80's. No idea why they left. Looking at their facilities, they'd have to add baseball and upgrade their basekball venue. But it could be done. BS they have. That's nothing more than you speaking for a team that you don't speak for. They's still going to be trying those conferences, there isn't anything left for them that they'd be interested in. Both of those will never happen. Denver will not align itself with public I-AA and I-AAA schools. And DU never has to worry about UND not being the WCHA, which is the only conference that really counts at DU.

Nope. That's not the way it works. The baseball schools in the Mid Con are going to look at a baseball-less UND and say "we need more teams to play in baseball". That's how you're going to get in the conference. Once you're in, fine. You can cut baseball. But it's not going to help you and certainly will hurt you if you don't have it. Not buying it for a second. Denver doesn't want in the Big Sky, for one. They want in the WCC. Pairing up with Seattle U will give the WCC the Denver and Seattle markets in a league of private schools without football. Second, Denver doesn't give a hoot about UND.

My guess is that if the Mid Con takes NDSU and SDSU, you'll see UND and then USD declaring their exploritory year to be 2007-2008 with the Mid Con/Great West picking them both up in 2008-09. Great West: NDSU UND SDSU USD Cal Poly Cal Davis Mid Con West: NDSU UND SDSU USD SUU UVSC Mid Con East: ORU UMKC Oakland West Ill IPUPI IPFW (assuming SUU drops football, Centenary leaves or gets kicked out)

Upgrading the softball stadium is not going to happen soon. They're merely submitting the plan to the state for approval should the funds happen to open up sometime in the future. They may never open up. The NDSU softball team played nine games this season in Fargo. 6 against DII teams (Saint Cloud, Duluth, and Mary) and three against SDSU. I don't see the point in spending 5 million dollars on something that will be used 10 times per season. If there was a professional softball team with 25+ games per year in Fargo, fine. But there isn't.

Except, do SDSU and esp. USD even recruit the twin cities?

I don't see why UND hasn't tried to partner with USD and have a traveling trophy to boot like NDSU and SDSU did.

The MIAA is a very nice conference and UNO should fit right in.

Well said. Keeping and even expanding Mayville and VC is analogous to the small links in the chain telling the big links what to do. Mayville and VC should be JC's in the same vein as Bismark, Williston, and Wahpeton. Minot and Dickinson should be teaching schools/liberal arts 4 years with no master's programs and no research. Maybe close down Lake Reigon and Bottineau but otherwise keep them as two year. Then NDSU and UND of course are the doctoral research centers.

Even if NDSU dropped baseball, Newman field would still be mostly used the same as it is now. NDSU hasn't played many meaningful games at Newman since moving up (SDSU and Minnesota). That's the only way I think UND should build a baseball stadium on campus. Don't waste your own money building the whole thing. Try to partner with the city. If you later axe the baseball team for scholarships for DI-A football or whatever, then no one loses out. You could also build about four new softball fields (ala the NDSU park) that would be used for city softball leagues or whatever have you. Put metal bleacher seating for about 250 behind the backstop of one of them and call that good for the 10 or so games max that UND softball would use it for.

Wow. A beautiful nonsequitor comback about how athletics have nothing to do with academics. A point I conceeded several posts ago.

When did I say that our school has more engineering programs? I posted a link that shows that UND has five ABET accredited programs and NDSU has seven. Take that for whatever it's worth, but there now way possible that you can prove that NDSU doesn't have more accredited programs when it's right on ABET's website. Nothing you can say will change that. I've yet to say that...in all of my posts. This is the second time you've accused me of this when I've never said this. Architecture is not a core engineering program. Architecture is not a non core engineering program. Architecture is not any type of engineering program in any shape or form. I didn't say NDSU was better than UND. I only posted a link that shows that we have more ABET accredited programs. What is your fetish with architecture? Would you stop already? Again with the architects. Did an architect kill your dog? Construction engineers only have to take calculus I and collge physics I (the lesser of the college and university physics classes). So I wouldn't compare them with the more traditional engineers that have to take University physics I, II, calculus I,II,III, linear algebra, and differential equations. But if ABET accredites the program, then the program is accredited, for whatever that's worth. Please do go into the details. I did go to the ASEE website: http://www.asee.org/about/publications/pro...nt=2&sequence=3 http://www.asee.org/about/publications/pro...nt=2&sequence=3 And that says the same thing as the ABET website. Bull*hit. UND is not competing with MIT and Cal Tech for government grants. That's what you meant by "competing"?! Watch out for UND solar and hydrogen racing team! You better be ready Stanford, you're next! Oh! A shot at Cal Poly as well! Yeah, Poly isn't a very well respected engineering school.

Times change. The NL needs more teams for the north division.

If we can't close them down, then lets start eliminating their programs. Turn Mayville into a junior college, for starters.

Is this post directed at me? Because you're making some sort of imaginary references to things I didn't say. Maybe we should clear some things up? First of all, if you had read the link at the top: Every school in the nation with an egineering department must be accredited by ABET if they want their department to have any legitimacy. Seeing as they were established in 1932 and are a federation of 28 professional societies, I think they know what they're doing. I'm not going to look up your personal definition of what a "core" engineering program is. You seem to think that it is electrical, mechanical, civil, and chemical (funny that those are exactly what UND offers) and that all other programs are illegitimate even though they're accredited by ABET. Even though NDSU doesn't have a separate chemical engineering department, they do have a polymers and coatings option in the Mechanical department that works with the Chemistry department, so NDSU does have all the "core" programs. But, on the other hand, I'm not going to use your personal definition of "core" programs. I'm going to agree with ABET on what constitues an engineering department. They have the experiance and expertises to make that decision. You don't. Architecture is not engineering. Never will be. Architecture is applied drawing. There is no math needed to draw. I don't understand why you're accusing me of lumping architects in with engineers. I've made no such statement. NDSU puts architects and engineers in the same college merely for administrative reasons. That doesn't mean anything other than making it easier for the secretaries to do paperwork. When have I said that taking our athletic program to DI has helped our engineering and architecture college? That's a fairly ludicrus statement to make. Athletics and academics are separate. NDSU is never going to directly compete with MIT, Cal Tech, or any of the big state public flagships for grants. It's just not going to happen. We are, however, going to continue to expand our departments, increase the number of doctorates granted and graduate students enrolled, and increase the amount of money spend on research as much as we can. I think having Alien and Phoenix on campus will help in that area. As well as the rest of the technology park.

How could you not see the Northern League looking at Grand Forks?! You do know that like half the league just defected to another league, right? Saint Paul, Lincoln, Sioux City, and Sioux Falls all left. I mean, the Redhawks are playing in a division with Edmonton, Calgary, and Winnipeg! The other division is Kansas city, and three Chicago area teams. Hell, if the NL isn't looking at Grand Forks then they're not very smart. Your idea that UND would be in a non baseball DI league is a stretch. The only DI conference in the entire nation that does not play baseball is the Big Sky. Every other confernece UND has a chance to get into (Mid Con, Horizon, MVC) all play baseball. If UND can work with GF to get a Newman type field built on campus, that is a no loser scenario. UND doesn't lose, Grand Forks doens't lose, the NL doens't lose. Even if UND latter drops the baseball team, there still would be no losers. I think that your best bet at the moment. Unless you can get into the Big Sky (isn't happening unless the western schools leave), just forget about anything else for right now.

Dude, obviously UND Lacrosse is your pet project at the moment and you're going to defending it like a mother defends her cub. I hope you realize that I wasn't putting down the possibility forever. Just in the short run UND's goal needs to be to get in a DI conference for bball and the rest of the sports. Cutting baseball/softball and adding Lacrosse is not going to do that at the moment. UND should not spend only their own money on an on campus baseball stadium. The only way UND should do it is to partner with the city to build a nice baseball stadium that would work for a Northern League or single A minor league team (somelike like Newman) on the UND campus which the UND baseball team could use for the 8 or so home games that they can get. And even after it's built, if UND doens't need to have a baseball team, the stadium was not a waste. Really, everyone wins.

I have to say that I really do like the tray option. I'd be pleased to see both the Fargodome and the Alerus invest in them.

http://www.abet.org/overview.shtml You were saying something about how agricultural engineering and construction engineering aren't accredited?

I can see why you'd want to axe baseball and softball. I agree that those sports don't work well up north. However, this only seems to work if you can guarantee yourself entry into the Big Sky confernece. For every other conference possibility, they play baseball and softball. So, for now, having bb and sb helps you market yourself to the largest number of conferences. I think the ultimate thing to do would be to partner with the city to build a baseball stadium on campus and try to get a Northern League team in Grand Forks. That way the stadium wouldn't sit idle for most of the year. As for softball, who cares? You don't need a fancy stadium for that. They're only going to be playing like 8 home games anyway as you said. NDSU's softball field might be a glorified high school field, but so what? They never use it. No sense in building a 1000 seat stadium if it's never going to be used.

Now see, this is what I thought all the big domes did. But to be honest, the tray system sounds way easier. All you need are a couple guys with forklifts and a place to stack the trays.