UNDhockey22

Hey petey23, I'm curious where you heard the quote from Phil Kessel Sr.? I heard the same quote, but it was about 5 years ago and it was in association with a AAA hockey team out of Minnesota. Is this the same instance, or has it been used more than once by Mr. Kessel?

A very sarcastic yet a very good point made. It's easy to put in points when your playing teams that hardly qualify as varsity hockey (century JV, Rivers Collegiate, Bienfat, Central Butte...). No one will disagree that some very good players come the West. At least I won't.

Point totals are not always an indicator of how well one plays. In most years if you are able to put up 30 points in the West, that probably correlates to around 15-20 points in the East. Besides, all point scoring is a function of how your team plays and the opportunities that they help you create. If you put one of Fargo South's top 4 point getters and put them on West Fargo, their scoring output will decrease because his opportunity to score will decrease. The same goes for if you put West Fargo's top player on Fargo South. He's going to get more points. My conclusion- points do not always provide a solid testimony to the strength of a players skill. Sometimes they do, but in North Dakota High School hockey, they can also be very deceiving.

That is a very reasonable assumption of players. I agree with the exception of Everson, but only time will tell if he makes the cut.

I can't say I know first hand on how these things work but I believe the games are treated no different than a practice. Except you play alumni instead of working on your forecheck, break-out, etc... . I would assume they are not reffed by paid officials and are treated no differently as far as the legality of the games go as a practice. That is the only way I can see such games occuring without it affecting compromising the structure of the season and number of actual games played. I hope that makes sense.

I have a few questions about the game. Was Red River unable to put shots on net or what was the deal? I know Fargo's goalie Dan Zerhan has struggled and I believe his save percentage as posted on Bob Gillen's website is something around 85%? Unfortunatly I was unable to attend the game so I cannot testify as to how the game went and where the majority of it was being played. But unless North's goalie had an uncharacteristically good game, I find it hard to believe Red River had an abundance of quality scoring opportunities. After defeating Fargo North 3-1, I'm going to have to disagree with in that score it is apparent the difference between Red River and everyone else is that great. There have been years when teams have been crushed during the regular season, and then actually win in the first round of the EDC tournement (Shanley vs. Red River, 2004). If I'm Jay Erickson and my team is within two goals of Red River right now, I like my chances come playoff time. The reason for that is because I believe North probably has more room for improvement.

I'm not big on cutting down players on message boards because of their ability to play the game, so I'm going to try to focus solely on his actions as far as celebrations go. Everyone thinks it would be funny to do such things, but realize that it is an immature and and downright disrespectful way to represent yourself and your team. World class athletes get criticized for actions such as these. If it is unacceptable for a world class athlete to do, don't you think it's probably something someone with one goal and one assist in 8 games should not do? Obviously not everyone wants to play hockey above high school and Dillon probably won't, however, if he did I would love to see the reaction to such a play in a Jr. A game. I would be willing to bet that he would not be all gung ho on wanting to getting into big fights during the game and showing up his opponents after a goal (providing he ever scored a goal). If such a move was pulled in a league in which fighting was legal, I don't think Dillon would have had an easy going the rest of the game.

Well said.

I know what they are trying to convey that if WF would have buried there chances it could have been a much closer or an OT game. The point I am trying to convey is that had North converted all of there chances we could have been looking at a 8-2 trouncing. But those are all if, ands, or buts; so the way I see it North came away with a 5-2 win and it should be treated as such no matter when the goals were scored or how close WF was to scoring one more goal. After Red River snuck past WF 3-2, I think North did make a statement by beating them 5-2.

I think North just made a statement. I'm hearing a lot about how many chances West Fargo had and did not capitalize, but did the same go for North as well? Could this game have been 6-2 or 7-2. I'd like to see what NDPride thinks. I've heard a lot about Kleins goal last night, and I was told he almost had a similar goal later in the game that hit a pipe? Is there any truth to this? Because right now it sounds like people are trying to make it sound like North got some lucky bounces and thats why the game was a three goal difference.

And South had enough depth to contain him. I highly doubt the guys he was playing with weren't able bodied athletes themselves. If that was the case, I'd be willing to bet he wouldn't have stuck around for another year of high school hockey and he would have moved on to maybe the USNTDP, USHL, or even NAHL. I saw a post before alluding to recruiting done by schools in Minnesota. Recruiting is illegal and not tolerated. Any recruiting done is pressure from friends and parents to their friends on to switch schools. If that's what you mean by recruiting then, yes there is recruiting. But recruiting in the sense of how a college does, sending letters, personal visits to the home, that is not tolerated. Just to clear the air.

The only thing I'm taking into account right now is the scores of the games. I am not able to attend all these games obviously so I go by what the final score states. In any sense, a game is three full periods long. Not one period, not two periods, not two periods and 8 minutes. If Wahpeton is tied with Grafton for two periods and five minutes into the third, but then Grafton scores ten goals in the remainder of the game, they still won 10-0. Good for Central that they were able to hang on for that long, but it was only a matter of time until South pulled away, which they did. South made a statement with decisive wins over White Bear Lake (5-1), Grafton (6-2), and Fargo North (9-3).

At this point in the season the only team I believe is going to be in the top two in the east is Fargo South. After this weak or next week depending on who Red River plays that may change. Besides an impressive 9-0 win over Crookston, I have not seen enough out of Red River. Yes, I am well aware they are undefeated. It's that 3-2 game against WF and the 5-4 against East Grand that worry me a little bit. And after a 5-1 over White Bear Lake I am very impressed with Fargo South. Right now I believe the top 4 teams in the East are South, RR or Grafton, DL or North.

I try to let ridiculous statements made on this message board go in one ear and right out the other but this, however, really bugs me. The East is in fact better than the West as far as the quality of teams goes. But to say no one cares about the West is ridiculous. And if that statement was anywhere close to true, I would be very concerned. I think everyone on this message board wants to see the advancement of hockey in North Dakota. In ten years I would love to see a team like Williston beat a team like Bloomington Jefferson. That may not be very realistic, but is that not the ultimate goal? To advance the quality of hockey in the entire state, not just the East? These are exactly the types of statements that divide the state into halves, those in favor of the East and those in favor of the West. If no one cared about the West then I don't see how it would be possible for the development of these players to improve to the point to where they can compete on a consistent basis with teams that have traditionally been elite in North Dakota high school hockey. When in Minnesota high school hockey do you see a team win back to back state championships? If you look at the history of the tournement it is a rare occurance. Looking beyond personal achievement and ties to your alma mater or current school, I think this should be the goal for North Dakota high school hockey. A state championship in Minnesota is far more coveted than one in North Dakota. Why? Because the competition is so high throughout the entire state.

The AAA label in North Dakota and every state for that matter is thrown around way too loosely. It seems that if you play in the summer, the team you are on is called a AAA team. I've been at tournements where those "AAA" teams couldnt compete with a good A team. I can only think of two or three summer teams that North Dakota has had that could have been considered a AAA team. An actual AAA team would usually lay a pretty good licking to a team from ND that claims to be AAA.

I believe the two best goalies in the state are Michael Hillman (recruited to play for Bismarck of the NAHL), and Sean Diechert. Sean and Michael were arguably the best goalies in the state last year (Rosendahl, Kringstad) and with Red Rivers goalies playing back-up last year and only playing 6 games this year, I do not think it's reasonable to say they are at the same level as these two.

To quote a NCAA division one soccer coach; "A true test of a team is how they play against a weak opponent, if they respect them. The greatest respect my players will pay any team is to play them at 100%, and if that means winning by 5 goals, then we win by five. Thats the greatest respect you can pay a team, to play your best against every team, all the time. If they can't do that against a weak opponent, I'm not sure how they'll do against a great opponent." In my mind great teams show up to play every game. I am not a big fan of the argument, we lost because we played terrible. Because as far as I'm concerned, maybe the other team played terrible too. And until we're able to see what both teams are really capable of, it was a close game and should be treated as such. Every team has bad bounces in every game, sometimes those bounces lead to goals, sometimes they don't. As player or an avid fan of one team, sometimes your vision can become so clouded you only see things going wrong for your team, and are unable to see that in fact, those bounces affect both teams. It's how you react to them is what matters.

You have to assume the leading scorer in the state is either going to come from one of the top 3 teams in the east or someone from the west. I don't want to open a can of worms when I say the west is weak making it easier for players to score, but I think we all know that is unfortunatly the truth. On that note whoever produces the most from South, Red River... who the third team will be in the east I don't know. Tanner Bombenger of North is towords the tops maybe he'll edge someone out. It's a long season though so I guess we'll see. On the note of why Moorhead is better than Fargo year in and year out. Well, yes Fargo does field more teams than Moorhead. But I don't think that's why Moorhead is such a powerhouse compared to the Fargo schools (throughout history). I believe some parents who are involved in Moorhead Youth hockey were very good hockey players themselves. In that sense, they have an advantage in knowledge in developing young players. It also helps Moorhead has tremendous tradition. These kids grow up wanting to play high school hockey and that also plays a major role in there decision of which sports to play and how aggresively they train for that sport. If the case was the Fargo simply had more teams than Moorhead, we would be seeing guys like the Cullens, Brian Lee, Chris VandeVelde, Gifford, the list goes on and on. It has been a while since Fargo has produced a blue chip player. Fargo has had many very good players but not even close to as many high end guys as Moorhead. Last year Fargo had a couple of very good players who were able to move on (Weisgarber, Galt, Larson, Harrie) and maybe thats a testiment to the improvement of hockey in Fargo. Who knows.

Grand Forks Red Rivers top line of Crary, Vigen, and Meland is a very competent top line. However, I have yet to hear conclusive evidence that should make me believe they are the best line in the state besides the fact that they have managed to be 3,4, and 5th in the state in scoring after playing 4 weak teams. Fargo South has 4 players who are also in the top 31 in the state in scoring which gives me reason to believe they might have the best line in the state after playing White Bear Lake and having a competitive game. Jamestown also has three forwards in the top 31 along with Zach Welding who has attended National Festivals in previous years. He has 14 points. Fargo North has 3 players in the top 31 in scoring, leading that pack is Tanner Bombenger with with 12 points. Also on that line is Tyler Klein and according the the website for the high school elite league he was chosen to play in year end tournement that is combined from the best players in the elite league. Grafton Park-Rivers top line should not be overlooked either. They have a very talented Zach Miller and Tanner Hills who have both been very impressive so far. I do not believe anyone who is reasonable and knows a little bit about the sport would say at this point in time what line is in fact the best line in the state. In some cases, the line the scores the most goals, gets the most goals scored on them aswell. With that being said, some lines plus/minus may be far better than a line that has 10 more points. (I do believe however, that if Danny Wurden played forward Fargo South would have the undisputed top line in the state as I have heard rumors the Omaha Lancers of the USHL wanted him to play there this season and he decided to stay for his senior year).

The least thing to worry about right now

They all count the same. Alex Hooey will have equal opportunity to score against Shanley as Crary did. To get three goals in any game you must be doing something right. Two goals against White Bear is very impressive aswell. When someone is leading his team and is towords the top of the state as a sophomore he is going to be talked about. I don't see why that's so hard to accept.

That is really dissapointing to hear if that is in fact true.

Russel, let your actions speak for you.

Is this a message board where mature adults come to talk about high school hockey or is this a place where immature high school hockey players come to degrade other players in the state? If the reason for these players quitting are because they feel they are too good for the team, I agree that is very classless. Sometimes players feel the need to quit the team for personal reasons (commitment) and in that event if they do not love or enjoying their time on the ice, I have no problem with them hanging up the skates. I am not going to come on here and bash a kid for quitting because he would rather hang out with his buddies after school instead of playing hockey. That's his choice, and if that's what he wants to do good for him. If that is not the case and these players enjoy hockey and are quitting for reasons like they feel they are too good for team, the coach, or playing time then I believe it's time for these kids to do some soul searching and realize you are not God's gift to hockey and you should probably stop acting like it. Note: Arguments are inevitible and are half the fun of these message boards. However, if the content and language use can be kept civil it enhances the expierance that much more and makes it more enjoyable for everyone. Thanks.

That post was very mature. When I was younger I remember never liking many players from Minnesota and the cities area because they had the mentality that they were better than everyone from North Dakota. Don't get me wrong, I love Minnesota and have met some very close friends from Minnesota through sports, types of friendships that will last a life time. However, the attitude that came across to me most often was that because I was from North Dakota or my team was from North Dakota, we did not command respect; even though we almost always beat them. It is apologies like the one above that remind me of the character players from North Dakota have that many times I felt players in Minnesota did not have or show to players from across the boarder. I'm very impressed... End rant.