star2city

When I go back to ND, the ND accents nearly send me into shock (from laughing and despairing that I used to sound like that! ) But then, in a few days or so, I talk like that, again. BTW, GeauxSioux, since you are on the internet, I assume you have electricity in Pensacola (unless you hooked into your generator. ) Another twenty or thirty miles west, and Dennis could have given another horrible blow to Pensacola. Last time I drove through, I couldn't believe the number of homes that still have blue tarps for roofs following Ivan.

Yesterday, the poll showed UND football with nearly the same votes as NDSU football. I guess we know how NDSU fans spent their Saturday: ballot stuffing 3000 votes. Apparently, there is some cheap / unemployed labor in those parts. 4) Favorite North Dakota team? 45.4% North Dakota State (football) 34.2% Univ. of North Dakota (hockey) 9.8% North Dakota State (basketball) 5.8% Univ. of North Dakota (football) 2.3% Fargo-Moorhead Redhawks (baseball) 1.1% Dakota Wizards (basketball) 0.6% Univ. of North Dakota (basketball)

IMO, one of the problems with the Mid-Con is that no one is contented there - everyone wants to be elsewhere. It is difficult to build a decent conference with that sort of prevalent attitude. In addition, it has three schools that really bring it down: Chicago St (total apathy there - Chicago is a pro sports town anyway ), Centenary (Mayville State’s size, but with a minidome, in DI), and Southern Utah (geography and even the Big Sky is still avoiding it). If those three schools could be moved out (BTW, Centenary isn’t leaving anytime soon and Valpo would still represent the Chicago area) AND Grand Valley St, No Kentucky (which just indefinitely delayed a DI move) and UNO all could join, that would improve it. But this “new” Mid-Con Conference would have almost no presence in any area that has UND alumni or where prospective students could be naturally recruited.

I understand your points on both counts, but: As far as the Big Sky, even in its prime it had only four flagship schools (MSU, UM, Idaho, and Nevada). By adding UND, NDSU, & SDSU, it could have five flagship schools. Extending over three time zones is non-ideal, but a divisional breakdown with Central/Mountain and Mountain/Pacific schools limits the issue. Sac State, with their new facilities being built, has no intention of staying IAA anyway. Marketing is about romanticizing and if the Big Sky is bold enough, its best days can be ahead of it, rather than in the 1980s. Even though UND has had limited athletic interaction with UM or MSU, there is more passion crossing the Mont-NDak border than about the ND-SD border. Montanans tell their North Dakota jokes, while South Dakotans are the butt of jokes by Nebraskans and Iowans. Probably because of east-west transportation links from the Twin Cities to Seattle and because a high fraction of Montanans descended from North Dakotas, the potential for natural athletic rivalries are high (for the same reason that UND / U of Minn has an intense rivalry.) There is no antipathy in so-called USD/UND or NDSU/SDSU “rivalries”. This thread on a Montana Grizzly board shows how its fans view UND as a “neighbor” and a potential rival. http://www.egriz.com/GrizBoard/viewtopic.php?p=82395& IMO, there would never be a discussion like that among fans of any school in the MidCon or Horizon.

In this whole discussion, there are a number of intangibles that should factor into the decision. Most of the DII schools that have transitioned to DI are urban commuter-type schools that did not have a significant fan base. Just as important as conference affiliation is how appropriate the new DI conference is to the reclassifying schools. For example, for UND, being - a DI independent would likely be disastrous financially and for fan support. - a member of the Mid-Continent conference, would not be very attractive, as most schools in that conference have little in common with UND, are not in areas with significant alumni, or in areas with target student populations. From a marketing standpoint, just the name “Mid-Continent” and its reputation as the conference of last resort has negative connotations North Dakota and UND do not need to further associate with. - a member of the Horizon conference, would be somewhat attractive, but it lacks traditional rivals. It would give UND a lot more visibility in the urban Midwest and would probably be the best option for athlete recruitment. Having membership in the Horizon would be like having a free (but small) marketing campaign. Without a travel partner school in Minnesota, this is not going to happen. - a member of the Big Sky conference is in many ways the most attractive, even with it relatively low competitiveness in basketball.. A 12-team league would have traditional rivals (NDSU, SDSU, UNC, Mont, MSU), be attractive to many alumni (particularly in Denver, Phoenix-Flagstaff, Salt Lake, and Portland), interest western ND even more, and help market UND in fast-growing western states. IMO, being in the western “Big Sky” rather than mid-western conference would reorient the outside perception of UND. The term “Big Sky” although associated with ‘remoteness’ is also associated with pioneering, openness, and adventure. Those are the exact qualities UND needs to foster in its academics, research, and community. IF a Big Sky bid is coming in two years to UND, NDSU, and SDSU (as some expect), the cost/benefits needs to include cultural, vision, and perception issues, and not just strictly financial effects. One last note: Missoula and Bozeman are Big Sky cities that are really making strides economically. (Flagstaff, Ogden, Spokane/Cheney, and to a lesser extent,, Pocatello, aren't doing too bad either.) Athletic conferences are almost as much a league of cities as a conference of universities. Having Grand Forks and Fargo in the league of Big Sky cities would further associate the Red River Valley and North Dakota with progressive leadership.

Another SD-native, ex-UND in the 'major' Arena league: Rislov: One Cool Kat in Arena Football

http://www.gazetteextra.com/shrinebowl_nolte071405.asp

Kinda disappointing when other papers run the same story: www.charlotte.com San Jose Mercury-News But at least the New Orleans paper gets the name right and some information correct in a totally seperate story: Times-Picayune: Nickname controversy follows teams

Greeley (Colo) Tribune on UNC's budget issues: http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/20050710/SPORTS/107100038 http://www.greeleytrib.com/article/20050710/SPORTS/107100036

Looks like Northern Kentucky is staying DII, until they raise more money: NKU regents reject Division I Seems strangely consistent with UND's actions: build the facilities first. Cincinnati Enquirer: NKU opts to remain in Div. II, for now

Toronto Globe and Mail had a major article on Devils Lake: Who'll stop draining of Devils Lake? So Devils Lake is being drained?

UND (and NDSU) are going to be forced to increasingly rely on Minnesota for their students. The athletes at UND already reflect a heavy Minnesota bias. With only one DI program in Minnesota, it is the state most under-represented in the DI ranks (in DI schools / population). If Minn, ND, and SD were merged into one state of 6.5 million, four DI schools (Uof Minn, UND, NDSU, SDSU) would not be excessive, as there is generally one DI school for every one million people. By moving to DI, UND can also position itself, at least in public perceptions, as more than a tier above other Minnesota publics like Minn-Duluth, SCSU, MSU-Mankato, that might otherwise for competitive in certain fields.

Without a conference, first-class facilites (i.e. football /track indoor facility), and a decent scholarship endowment, UND shound not go DI. But there are several relatively painless ways in which to generate more funds if a DI route was chosen. Many of these take advantage of the Ralph media capabilities, which few schools can match. Others assume that Big Sky membership is forthcoming in 2008-9 (which some sources have indicated is highly probably with NDSU and SDSU being accepted also.) The net effect of these changes should be well in excess of $1 M, if executed reasonably well. - Eliminate men’s/women’s double-headers for basketball. Paid attendance would nearly double as a result. (Most DI schools, the Big Sky included, schedule men’s and women’s BB separately anyway.) - Reduce/eliminate broadcast of Sioux games on WDAZ, and gradually ratchet up access fees for cable to carry the FSSN and /or retain all advertising revenue on the FSSN. - With membership in the BSC, expand the # of cable systems carrying the FSSN in South Dakota and Eastern Montana. - Increase exposure in Winnipeg area cable by emphasizing Winnipeg natives like Zajac and Toews. Although more difficult, generate Winnipeg interest in Sioux football and basketball (the interest in basketball among Winnipeg’s large immigrant community is supposedly huge.) - A renewal of UND-NDSU games (with separate men’s / women’s gates) means +$100 k in Bball annually and +$75 k in football (with higher prices and a sellout) every other year. - Increase football season tickets by 1500, increase basketball season tickets by 1000 - Drop non-revenue sports not required by the conference. - With Big Sky membership, annually there would be either a Montana State or Montana game. Since these schools travel very well - and both have large #’s of Twin Cities alums - increase the price for single tickets (much as Gopher-Sioux hockey games are more expensive). - Become one of THE powers of women’s hockey, so average attendance becomes ~2500 / game. Get 6000/game for the Minnesota series. Become a regular host of the Women’s Frozen Four. (The more events at the Ralph -> the more UND athletics benefits financially.) - Become a prime deliverer of programming to Denver’s Altitude network (Sioux-Denver hockey, Sioux-CC hockey, Sioux games in the Big Sky). No other Big Sky school could produce and deliver telecasts as cheaply. - Sell select broadcasts (including Big Sky basketball) to Fox Sports North - Do a round-robin holiday basketball tournament at the Ralph with either NDSU or SDSU and two mid-major teams. The attraction of the Ralph would entice decent mid-major teams, and the presence of NDSU or SDSU would enhance the gate. - Get the Big Sky basketball tournament at the Ralph. The economic impact in Grand Forks could be significant, especially if SDSU or one of the Montana schools advances. (Again, the more events at the Ralph -> the more UND athletics benefits financially.) - Collect the DI payments from the Frozen Four - Increased UND visibility sells more Sioux merchandise -> more royalties. I live in the South and a number of people have asked to get them a Sioux hat or t-shirt after they see the logo.

Last two installments from the Davis paper on UC-Davis' DI move: A more comfortable fit? Ready for its close-up An editorial in the Cincinnati Post on NKU's delay: http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar.../507070327/1003

Considering that swimming covers both the men's and women's team, more recruiting $'s/signed athlete goes to soccer. If you look at the numbers, a signed women's hockey player "costs" around $5000 just in recruitment costs. (Men's basketball is about the same.) For soccer, it's about $500/signed athlete. When players that were recruited but didn't sign are considered, the average cost / recruited athlete is even less.

The home of the hanging chad gets a few more things wrong in this article. If the writer only knew how his own errors and ignorance create even more "testiness": The name game can get testy

Would agree that individual sports may make recruiting decisions easier, but a face-to-face meeting and a coaches judge of character are still important. Left out the soccer #'s. 0257 Football Recruiting $ 36,850.00 0259 Hockey Recruiting $ 27,500.00 0282 Women's Hockey Recruiting $ 24,500.00 0251 Men's Basketball Recruiting $ 22,250.00 0268 Women's Basketball Recruiting$ 15,210.00 0276 Volleyball Recruiting $ 7,000.00 0277 Baseball Recruiting $ 4,500.00 0279 Swimming Recruiting $ 4,000.00 0271 Softball Recruiting $ 3,500.00 0266 Soccer Recruiting $ 3,000.00 0285 Men's Track/CC Recruiting $ 2,500.00 0286 Women's Track/CC Recruiting $ 2,500.00 0278 Tennis Recruiting $ 500.00 0283 Men's Golf Recruiting $ 500.00 0284 Women's Golf Recruiting $ 500.00

Latest installment of UC-Davis DI series: D-I decisions abound

Northern Kentucky, who's move to DI seemed all but a rubber stamp after the legislature funded a new arena on campus, is apparently reconsidering: http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/ar...EWS01/507060356 Interesting that NKU used the same consultants that SDSU and NDSU chose. However, it seems NKU also chose to include within the consultant's report the facility improvement costs that will be needed at the DI level. The SU' schools chose not to have $ figures for facility improvements in their report, as it would have been too negative towards DI.

Interesting articles from the Davis (CA) newpaper: Progress over Wins The dollars and cents of Division I

No, its 2003-4 data for UND, NDSU, and SDSU, with 2004-5 data for the Horizon teams. Correct the data if you want.

Stromberg and Sampaio really need to be commended for what they have done with the swimming program, with as little $'s as the program gets. The swim team actually does a lot of the cleanup of the Ralph after events to raise money for the program, if my memory is correct. From a recruiting standpoint, the non-revenue programs get peanuts for recruiting: (from http://www.UND.edu/org/iac/IAC9-16-03.htm 0257 Football Recruiting $ 36,850.00 0259 Hockey Recruiting $ 27,500.00 0282 Women's Hockey Recruiting $ 24,500.00 0251 Men's Basketball Recruiting $ 22,250.00 0268 Women's Basketball Recruiting$ 15,210.00 0276 Volleyball Recruiting $ 7,000.00 0277 Baseball Recruiting $ 4,500.00 0279 Swimming Recruiting $ 4,000.00 0271 Softball Recruiting $ 3,500.00 0285 Men's Track/CC Recruiting $ 2,500.00 0286 Women's Track/CC Recruiting $ 2,500.00 0278 Tennis Recruiting $ 500.00 0283 Men's Golf Recruiting $ 500.00 0284 Women's Golf Recruiting $ 500.00 But somehow Swimming and baseball are very competitive without $'s.

Based on this: http://ope.ed.gov/athletics/InstDetail.asp?CRITERIA=3 and this: http://www.UND.edu/org/iac/IAC9-16-03.htm Overall athletic department budget 1. Illinois-Chicago, $9,444,118 2. UW-Milwaukee, $8,250,000 3. Youngstown State, $8,094,500* 4. Wright State, $7,815,891 --> UND $7,350,000** 5. Butler, $7,220,114* 6. Loyola, $7,191,148 7. Cleveland State, $6,532,609 ---> NDSU $6280* • 8. UWGB, $5,314,726 9. Detroit, $5,198,275 ---> SDSU $4785* * - includes football ** - includes football and hockey Men’s basketball budget 1. Wright State, $1,186,080 2. Detroit, $1,115,018 3. UW-Milwaukee, $1,110,293 4. Loyola, $1,107,171 5. Butler, $1,053,972 6. Illinois-Chicago, $748,219 7. Youngstown State, $713,127 8. Cleveland State, $699,129 • 9. UWGB, $668,691 ->10. UND $533 K ->11 NDSU $478 K ->12 SDSU $356 k Men’s basketball recruiting budget 1. Cleveland State, $73,742 2. Youngstown State, $50,000 3. Loyola, $49,000 4. Butler, $46,000 5. Detroit, $43,442 6. UW-Milwaukee, $40,000 7. Illinois-Chicago, $39,994 • T8. UWGB, $30,000 T8. Wright State, $30,000 ->10. UND $22,500 Women’s basketball budget 1. Butler, $851,291 2. Wright State, $850,857 3. Cleveland State, $828,035 4. Loyola, $762,160 5. Detroit, $672,712 6. UW-Milwaukee, $667,916 7.Youngstown State, $582,927 --> NDSU $523 --> UND $513 • 8. UWGB, $510,300 9. Illinois-Chicago, $456,004 ---> SDSU $307 Women’s basketball recruiting budget 1. Cleveland State, $47,477 2. Illinois-Chicago, $40,500 3. Wright State, $40,000 4. Butler, $37,000 • 5. UWGB, $35,000 6. Loyola, $34,200 7. Detroit, $30,497 T8. Youngstown St., $30,000 T8. UW-Milwaukee, $30,000 ->10. UND, $15,210

On the 4th, the New York Times had a particularly poignant article on two Williston Guard Members, one of whom, Cody Wentz, lost his life in Iraq. Although the NYT probably has its own agenda, the transcendent quality of the story gives hope that, somehow, “all thing work together for good ... “ United by Football and Iraq (registration required - also, take a look at photos)