star2city

With St. Louis in the A10, the A10 would need to either abandon the Midwest (and ditch St. Louis) or go after more markets (and more TV $s). (It's also possible that the Big East basketball would approach St. Louis). With more teams (from the Horizon and Colonial), the A10 would also have the option itself of later splitting for a better geography and rivalries.

If its too intellectually challenging for you, you might consider Bisonville.com.

P.S. The reason the Horizon added a tenth team in Valpo is to protect itself from the loss of three teams (i.e. Butler, Detroit, Loyola). After losing three members, seven members and six core members still protect its autobid. Horizon leadership has a pretty good clue of what going down, so they prepared for it. When/if the Atlantic 10 takes their team, the Horizon would quickly move to get back to at nine. If it hadn't added Valpo, the Horizon would be scrambling in three years.

The Atlantic 10 is mostly a collection of very urban Catholic and private schools. Loyola (Chicago) and Detroit (Mercy) are both Catholic and Butler is private. They fit the Atlantic 10 profile perfectly. MVC private schools like Evansville, Bradley, Drake, and Creighton fit the Catholic/private needs, but aren't in large enough metro areas relative to the other A10 schools. Oakland was attempting to get into the Horizon on this expansion (Detroit blocked them). IUPUI supposedly has a new arena coming on line. The Horizon will want to stay in the Detroit and Indianapolis markets and it already has Chicago covered with Ill-Chicago.

The eight years after the five year transition was eliminated for eligibility in an autobid conference. A new DI school that is independent is still not eligible for the NCAA men's basketball tournament for 13 years (5 transition and eight after). To be a core member still takes 13 years.

UND shouldn't be pursuing conferences that may not even have an autobid in a few years. An impending Big East split as well as an MWC expansion will likely cause more dominos to fall in a few years. Although there are a number of different scenarios, the effect on the lower level conferences is much more predictable than the actual teams moving. For example, if the Big East added Memphis or East Carolina rather than Central Florida, the effects on the lower conferences stay the same. Same for the MWC if it choose Houston rather than UTEP, CUSA will still be hunting for a team. Here's what can be reasonably expected: 2009-10 -->Big East Football - Adds Central Florida (CUSA ) -->Big East Basketball - Adds Xavier, Dayton, UMass (all of Atlantic 10) -->Mountain West - adds UTEP (CUSA) * Mountain West - adds Boise St, Fresno St (both WAC) if they help get BCS status Atlantic 10 - Adds Loyola (Chicago), Butler, Detroit (all of Horizon) to maintain is presence in the Midwest Horizon - adds Oakland, IUPUI (both of MidCon) to maintain presence in Indianapolis and Detroit CUSA - adds Middle Tennessee (Sunbelt) adds Louisiana Tech (WAC) Sunbelt - adds Texas State (Southland) WAC - needing one - adds UC-Davis or Sac St. - needing three - adds Davis and Sac and one of the following: Portland St, NAU, Cal Poly (a WAC doomsday scenario is Hawaii becoming a football independent and joining the Big West for its strength in volleyball and baseball PLUS San Jose St dropping football and joining Big West - the WAC would need five teams) Bottom line: MidCon core members remaining: Oral Roberts Centenary W Illinois UMKC Southern Utah MidCon loses its autobid as it would no longer have six core members together for five years. Either IPFW or UTPA would get MidCon back to six core members in 2012 and a restored autobid, but that assumes no other school leaves (which is a reasonably large assumption). The MidCon really needs both IPFW and UTPA for ensuring its future survival. Since NDSU and SDSU would only qualify as core members in 2016-7, they do not help the MidCon as much as IPFW and UTPA would. Expect IPFW and UTPA to both get bids. NDSU and/or SDSU could still get offers, but because they are not "core" members, they are not as strategically important for the MidCOn's future survival. Big Sky core members remaining: Montana Montana St Idaho St Weber St E Wash NAU or Portland St Even if Montana changed its mind on IA and moved up (rather than Portland St or NAU), the Big Sky would still maintain six core members. Only in the very unlikely event that the WAC totally implodes (losing Hawaii and San Jose St), would the Big Sky lose its basketball autobid. UNC: core member in 2016 NDSU/SDSU core member in 2017 UND: core member in 2019 The Big Sky option has much less risk and really is now the only option for a DI UND. I'm sure NDSU and SDSU understands those implications also. The Big Sky really only wants expansion for the 2008-9 season, so its not in its interests to rush.

When the NCAA lifted its moratorium on allowing new DI schools, it placed onerous restrictions on the newly reclassified schools. The intent of this legislation was to limit the number of new DI schools and prevent formation of new conferences. An intended byproduct of the new rules are to (1) force weaker conferences to have more teams to keep their autobid - which in turn reduces the chances of an NCAA appearance for the smaller school and reduces their payout and competitiveness and (2) kill off a few weaker conferences autobids so that more at-large bids are granted to major conferences. Another example of a money and power grab by your friendly NCAA/Bowl Coalition partnership. Here's the NCAA NCAA bylaw A new DI school effectively has two hurdles to pass: five years to become a DI member and an additional eight years to become a DI core member. Conferences need to ensure "core" members stay well above six in the event of a defection. The earliest UND could be a DI eligible member is 2011-12 (if it declares June 1st). UND wouldn't be a core member until 2019-20. NDSU and SDSU wouldn't be core members until 2016-17. A conference really has to have a long-term horizon and firm membership in order to accept any of us. (continued)

So why have the meeting? Presidents can still vote over a teleconference. There may not be a formal announcement, but campus visits would seem possible.

Absolutely agree with you on #1 and #2. Students should not be disenfranchised because they might leave in a few years. Even if they leave, they will be replaced with someone of similar voting interests. One could use the same argument to GF's senior citizens: they won't be around much longer and aren't concerned with the future, so why should senior citizens be allowed to vote? Neither students nor Seniors should be disenfranchised. The issue people are probably the most concerned with is who the elected official is representing the University Ward. John Hoff hurt the credibility of students horribly among townspeople. What's interesting is that State District 42, the legislative district the includes UND, has elected numerous very capable people to the legislature (such as Wayne Stenehjem) with the students voting in November. District 42 voting results (like its current roster of Horter, Dietrich, & Hacker) should be used to counter the mindset that students will vote irresponsibly.

Conveniently delayed until after the Big Sky meetings? No, but it can be made in 13 days! Isn't the real implication: a decision of this magnitude gets made over several years, which BTW have already passed.

Numerous schools have been adding women's lacrosse (UC-Davis, Oregon, Northwetern), but men's lacrosse is practically at a stand still. There are more DI women's teams then men's teams, even though more high schools offer men's lacrosse then women's. The following midwestern and western states have no DI schools sponsoring men's lacrosse, even though they have a high number of high schools sponsoring the sport: Minnesota - 48 high schools sponsor boys lacrosse Wisconsin 24 Illinois 41 Missouri 32 California 157 Oregon 33 Washington 31 Idaho 18 Utah 36 Texas 63 With Denver U and Air Force the only true western teams, and with Notre Dame and Butler being the western fringe of DI men's lacrosse, seems like the talent in the western states would be begging for a place to play. With such limited regional competition in recruiting, a men's lacrosse team at UND could conceiveably be very talented.

Herald city reporter Tu-Uyen Tran has a blog article which includes illustrations of proposed displays which would highlight UND football. Cost: $400 K.

Kinda like you obsessing over Buning?

Aff: Chill out a little, AFF. Hate to think what will happen when you're proven wrong!

BTW, have the Big Sky Presidents already met and nothing came of it? Aff, I'm definitely no big fan of NDSU athletics, but don't wish yourself an early grave.

The size of the Fargodome is NDSU's "in" to the WAC, if the WAC needs more teams (like four or five more within a decade). SDSU just isn't that appealing for the MoValley (too small of a TV market) - especially with other schools like UMKC, ORU, Denver, and UALR wanting entrance. SDSU has to win in DI basketball to get entrance into the MoValley, while NDSU only really has to come up with the money for a IA football program. IMO, NDSU in the WAC is more likely to occur (albeit at least 10 years away) before SDSU gets in the MoValley. Now if UND could expand the Alerus to more than 15,000 seats ....

My point on SUU is that the MidCon's autobid is one or two schools closer to becoming tenuous: Centenary could drop athletics or Western Illinois could join the Ohio Valley. NDSU and SDSU are of no value to the MidCon until 2008-9. IPFW and UTPA are the only immediate options. The Horizon going to 10 schools shows that it is positioning itself for what is likely to another major wave of conference shifts that will likely happen around 2009-10, when the Big East splits. For the Big Sky, nine isn't a safe number when the WAC begins to poach it. The Sky needs to have 10 for insurance, and 12 isn't fantasy talk. What seems lost in all this talk by NDSU and SDSU fans is: What is your next planned step (i.e. ideal terminal conference)? For NDSU, it is likely to be the WAC. If that is NDSU's long-term goal, joining the MidCon makes absolutely no sense if the Big Sky is offering. For SDSU, the Missouri Valley is probably their ideal. The MidCon would make more sense for them.

What Valpo to the Horizon does: practically forces the MidCon to accept IPFW for the 2007-8 season. They are practically the only DI eligible school available for that year, unless they accept UTPA. The MidCon will also need to add at least one more team, maybe two, so yes, NDSU and SDSU's chances improve. This also puts major pressure on the Big Sky to make a decision Tuesday on any Dakota expansion. The Big Sky could practically cripple the MidCon's autobid (and practically destroy the MidCOn) if the Sky took in Southern Utah now.

Wow! Actually agree with Tony! BD: Where have you ever seen it said UND will be asked before NDSU? Your dislike of UND is obviously affecting your reading comprehension.

Wasn't referring to five years down the road, but now, next week/this summer. Just last year, Central Arkansas was accepted into the Southland Conference as a DII over two other full DI schools (Centenary and UTPA) when the Southland went to 12 members. A DII school can get into a lower ranking DI conference - it has happened many times previously.

With NDSU recruiting mainly Minnesota and Wisconsin, don't really see how the MidCon would be an easy sell for that location of recruits. The promise of a non-conference game at Minnesota, Wisconsin, Marquette, or even Wis-Milw would be a bigger sell than a conference game in Macomb, Ill against Western Illinois. Except for Valpo and maybe Oral Roberts, MidCon fans generally have so little passion. In the Big Sky, the opposite is true (with a like number of exceptions). You need to take this to the Bison board and see what they say.

My comments weren't an attempt to ridicule the MidCOn. The MidCon as a conference makes a very poor match for UND as an institution. The MidCon would make a much better match for a schools like IPFW, Northern Kentucky, or even Nebraska-Omaha (not that that will happend) So if UND gets into the Big Sky with NDSU and SDSU, what will be your response?

So 89rabbit lives in KC? For a Gopher fan, who "doesn't post on many other boards but this one" and who has a lot of passion for SDSU and NDSU even though you're not of fan of either, and has high hopes for the MidCOn conference, you sure seem to know a lot about 89rabbit, who doesn't even post here. It would be interesting to get 89rabbit's, or any other Jackrabbit's fan perspectives, though.

If, for example, you were an SDSU fan that lived in the Kansas City suburbs, I could understand being excited by the MidCOn. Would many UND fans have much interest in the MidCOn schools? Very few - Midcon schools are not located where many alumni live, they are not located where we attract students from, its gets little media attention, the schools are by-and-large commuter-type schools, its academic reputation isn't the best, it would not provide any natural rivalries (from existing schools). Other than providing a stepping stone for a better DI conference later, basically it would suck. NDSU fans only seem to be for it because they are tired of being rejected by the Sky.