gjw007

One of the attraction of college hockey is that the big schools often play the smaller schools. If it went to a completely regional basis with all the small schools playing only other small schools, the question then is whether this is actually good for college hockey. By being regional, it may help offset the costs but it may also diminish the program by not being able to become a national player. Several of the Big Ten Schools, specifically Minnesota, Michigan, Wisconsin, along with other schools such as UND, Denver, Boston College have been national players. These schools will want to continue to be national players whereas if they (UND, Denver, CC) are in a region with the smaller schools, they may end up losing this. The question then becomes, at some time, will Division II college start again as many of these smaller schools are DII. I am not opposed to the Big Ten Hockey Conference but I do understand that it could mean the demise of college hockey as it has been historically if the realignment is not well thought out. Would it mean the demise of the smaller schools? If so, is this actually good for college hockey and if these school fail, would college hockey continue with only 15 or 20 teams (Big Ten, Hockey East, scattering of other schools)?

I have always felt that UND and NDSU made a mistake by not moving to D1AA in the late 70s with UNI and the Montana schools. It would be interesting what this discussion would like today if they had.

You could argue that everything is a 'niche' activity; whether academic or athletic, all championship count. You just don't hear about some of them.

And that partially negatives the expense argument as they already has facilities, how good is another question though

I don't hear quite the same but I do hear the expectation that Rutgers will be asked to get into the NYC television market but even with Rutgers, there is no gurantee that it will be the key to tapping the market hence the questions.

Maryland has a club hockey team and I don't think it would take to much to convince to upgrade as there had been talk of it a few years back although I don't think it was serious. Doesn't Rutgers have a club hockey team as well? If so, hockey might not be the stretch that some are making it to be.

It's a slippery slope where it may only apply to one today but escalate to others tomorrow. So yes, it may be more hypothetical at the moment but it could be the start of something else where the lower hanging fruits are picked from the tree but once started, the more difficult ones are gotten later.

But the principle remains the same

The interesting aspect of this is that it may also apply to the U of Wisc if taken literally. The badgers don't refer to an animal but to individuals in Wisconsin so if the law is taken literally, then Wisc should be forced to change its nickname as well. Won't happen but somebody is sure to push it.

And yet they even admitted that the schools could choose whatever nickname they wanted but couldn't display it at NCCA tournaments or host tournaments. Not quite as drastic as the viewpoint expressed.

Wow! Although this is out of context, you seem to be stating that member schools have no right to choose their own nickname. Even the NCAA didn't go that far.

You've never been outside the US? Many non-US countries view attitudes like this as American arrogance. And sometimes American companies get left out of the deal because they fail to consider the consequence of accepting that there are cultural differences.

It's actually a hedge as I think that UND and NDSU can find a level that is sustainable but I think there will be more difficulty as time goes by. I think UND and NDSU both made a mistake by not going D1AA in the late 70's along with the Montana schools and Northern Iowa. And true, the Fargo area has grown tremendously from when I lived in Grand Forks so that market still has some potential given the growth rate that other areas don't have.

I have stated early in this forum that it should just be the University of North Dakota without a nickname. It would make them unique in the sporting world and highlights the University.

You highlighted my point exactly. You have not been having any problem during the early years, the excitement level is still high and the move is still fresh It is still too early for the last part to play out but give it 10 or 15 years before this can be ruled correct or not but consider this, how many schools have made the jump in divisions, got a nice increase in fund raising when the jump was made, and then jumped back down in division because they could not sustain the necessary expenditures giving their ability to generate funds. While I'm not saying that it can't be sustained, only that it becomes harder as the excitement level plateaus. Certain games, rivalry games, have a highly sustained interest level year after year. Personally I think UND and NDSU can reached a sustainable level but I'm not quite so sure about USD.

Seems like it already has to the same extent that NDSU has but that doesn't change the fact that the rivalry in football stopped when NDSU moved up and UND didn't and the NCAA rules penalized teams for playing in different divisions at the time. Being in the same division and after the end of the transition period, there is no real reason not to play other than arrogance (and both NDSU and UND fans have this in spades). UND does need to recognize that NDSU, given its conference affiliation, can't be as flexible as UND but that isn't to say it isn't in NDSU's advantage to play the game. If in doubt about this, think of the fundraisers and the donors and what they want. The early years of fund raising when the move up was new was easy but it gets harder to keep the momentum going as time goes by. Just a thought

Are you suggesting the new name for the UND Fighting Sioux be the UND Fighting Chicken and have a logo to match? UND should just stick to UND and not have a nickname or logo. Anything else ends up being disrespectful to the Sioux

Ah, too much pressure on the schools. It sounds like one-and-one every other year proposal should have been taken but it still doesn't answer how this helps NDSU's goal of 6 homes games as by default one game every other year is away. The idea of a game after the playoffs start with the teams that don't make the playoffs should be considerdc. I would add USD and SDSU in the mix as well (NDSU already plays SDSU and UND already plays USD) with the winner getting a new trophy as the Dakota Champion. Just a thought and with the games being charity games, everybody wins.

While there are 58 or 59 NCAA Division 1 schools, your knowledge of hockey teams is somewhat limited as there is also college club hockey team. Here are some teams listed at the http://www.achahockey.org/page.php?page_id=7150 website (American Collegiate Hockey Association). While not NCAA Division 1, it is still college hockey and it is widely distributed across the U.S. Not too bad for a 'regional' sport with club hockey teams @ UCLA, Arizona State, Alabama, Arkansas. UCLA, Stanford, Colorado, Connecticut, Georgetown, Delaware, U of Florida, Florida State, Georgia, Iowa State, Penn State, Indiana, Iowa, Illinois, NDSU, Idaho, Kentucky, Massachusetts, Maryland, Missouri, North Carolina, Montana, Nevada-Las Vegas, Oklahoma, Oregon, Washington, Syracuse University, Pennslyannia, Pittsburg, Clemson, Texas, West Virginia.... As NDSU plays club hockey, it should be aware that there are a lot more universities around the country that play hockey than is at the Division One level. A concern for many years for Division 1 is if a Big Ten school, such as Penn State ever decided to upgrade to Division One, then the Big Ten Hockey Conference would start via the Big Ten Conference rules. Here is the list of schools from the website. Alabama, University of M3 Tuscaloosa AL SE Arkansas, University of M3 Fayetteville AR SE Arizona , University of M1 Tucson AZ RM Arizona State University M1 Tempe AZ RM Arizona State University M2 Tempe AZ RM Northern Arizona University M3 Flagstaff AZ RM California - Berkeley , University of M2 Berkeley CA PC California - Davis, University of M3 Davis CA PC California - Irvine, University of M3 Irvine CA PC California - Los Angeles , University of M2 Los Angeles CA PC California - San Diego, University of M3 San Diego CA PC California State University - Long Beach M2 Long Beach CA PC California State University - Northridge M3 Northridge CA PC California State University-Sacramento M3 Sacramento CA PC Canyons, College of the M3 Santa Clarita CA PC Fresno State University M3 Fresno CA PC Loyola Marymount University M2 Los Angeles CA PC San Diego State University M3 San Diego CA PC San Jose State University M2 San Jose CA PC Santa Clara University M3 Santa Clara CA PC Southern California , University of M2 Los Angeles CA PC Southern California , University of W2 Los Angeles CA PC Stanford University M2 Stanford CA PC Air Force Academy, United States M3 Colorado Springs CO RM Colorado , University of M2 Boulder CO RM Colorado , University of M3 Boulder CO RM Colorado , University of W1 Boulder CO RM Colorado College M3 Colorado Springs CO RM Colorado School of Mines M3 Golden CO RM Colorado State University M2 Ft. Collins CO RM Colorado-Colorado Springs , University of M3 Colorado Springs CO RM Denver , University of M2 Denver CO RM Mesa State College M3 Grand Junction CO RM Metropolitan State College of Denver M2 Denver CO RM Northern Colorado , University of M3 Greeley CO RM Central Connecticut State University M2 New Britain CT NE Coast Guard Academy, United States M2 New London CT NE Connecticut , University of M2 Storrs CT NE Connecticut , University of W1 Storrs CT NE Connecticut College M2 New London CT NE Fairfield University M3 Fairfield CT NE Fairfield University W2 Fairfield CT NE Sacred Heart University M2 Fairfield CT NE Southern Connecticut State University M3 New Haven CT NE Wesleyan University M2 Middletown CT NE Western Connecticut State University M2 Danbury CT NE American University M3 Washington DC SE American University W2 Washington DC SE Catholic University of America M3 Washington DC SE George Washington University M3 Washington DC SE Georgetown University M2 Washington DC SE Delaware , University of M1 Newark DE AT Delaware , University of W2 Newark DE AT Central Florida , University of M3 Orlando FL SE Embry-Riddle Aeronautical University M3 Daytona Beach FL SE Florida , University of M2 Gainesville FL SE Florida Atlantic University M3 Boca Raton FL SE Florida Gulf Coast University M2 Ft. Myers FL SE Florida Gulf Coast University M3 Ft. Myers FL SE Florida Institute of Technology M3 Melbourne FL SE Florida State University M3 Tallahassee FL SE Rollins College M3 Winter Park FL SE South Florida, University of M3 Tampa FL SE Georgia , University of M3 Athens GA SE Georgia Institute of Technology M3 Atlanta GA SE Kennesaw State University M2 Kennesaw GA SE Life University M2 Marietta GA SE Dordt College M3 Sioux Center IA CN Iowa , University of M2 Iowa City IA CN Iowa State University M1 Ames IA CN Iowa State University M2 Ames IA CN Iowa State University W2 Ames IA CN Boise State University M2 Boise ID RM Idaho, University of M2 Moscow ID RM Bradley University M2 Peoria IL CN DePaul University M2 Chicago IL CN Eastern Illinois University M2 Charleston IL CN Illinois - Chicago, University of M2 Chicago IL CN Illinois , University of M1 Champaign IL CN Illinois , University of M2 Champaign IL CN Illinois State University - ICEBIRDS M2 Normal IL CN Illinois State University - REDBIRDS M2 Normal IL CN Lincoln Land Community College M3 Springfield IL CN Loyola University-Chicago M2 Chicago IL CN McKendree College M2 Lebanon IL CN Northern Illinois University M2 De Kalb IL CN Northwestern University M2 Evanston IL CN Robert Morris College M1 Chicago IL CN Robert Morris College W1 Chicago IL CN Robert Morris College - MAROON M2 Chicago IL CN Robert Morris College - WHITE M2 Chicago IL CN Robert Morris College-Springfield M2 Springfield IL CN Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville - GOLD M2 Edwardsville IL CN Southern Illinois University at Edwardsville - SILVER M2 Edwardsville IL CN Western Illinois University M2 Macomb IL CN Wheaton College (IL) M2 Wheaton IL CN Holy Cross College M3 Notre Dame IN MD Indiana University M2 Bloomington IN MD Indiana University-Purdue University Fort Wayne M3 Fort Wayne IN MD Purdue University M2 W Lafayette IN MD Kansas , University of M2 Lawrence KS CN Kansas , University of M3 Lawrence KS CN Eastern Kentucky University M3 Richmond KY MD Kentucky , University of M2 Lexington KY MD Louisville, University of M3 Louisville KY MD Northern Kentucky University M3 Highland Heights KY MD Louisiana State University M3 Baton Rouge LA SE Louisiana-Lafayette, University of M2 Lafayette LA SE Tulane University M3 New Orleans LA SE Babson College M2 Babson Park MA MA Boston College M2 Chestnut Hill MA MA Bridgewater State College M2 Bridgewater MA MA Clark University M2 Worcester MA MA Endicott College M2 Beverly MA MA Holy Cross, College of the M2 Worcester MA MA Massachusetts , University of M2 Amherst MA MA Massachusetts , University of W1 Amherst MA MA Massachusetts Institute of Technology M2 Cambridge MA MA Massachusetts-Lowell, University of W2 Lowell MA MA Nichols College W1 Dudley MA MA Northeastern University M2 Boston MA MA Smith College W2 Northampton MA MA Springfield College M2 Springfield MA MA Tufts University M2 Medford MA MA Westfield State College M2 Westfield MA MA Worcester Polytechnic Institute M2 Worcester MA MA Loyola College M3 Baltimore MD SE Maryland , University of M1 College Park MD SE Maryland , University of W2 College Park MD SE Maryland-Baltimore County , University of M2 Baltimore MD SE Naval Academy, United States M1 Annapolis MD SE Salisbury University M3 Salisbury MD SE Towson University M1 Towson MD SE Bates College M2 Lewiston ME NE Bates College W2 Lewiston ME NE New England, University of M2 Biddeford ME NE Saint Joseph's College of Maine M2 Standish ME NE Adrian College M1 Adrian MI MI Albion College M3 Albion MI MI Calvin College M3 Grand Rapids MI MI Central Michigan University M2 Mt Pleasant MI MI Davenport University M2 Grand Rapids MI MI Delta College M3 University Center MI MI Eastern Michigan University M1 Ypsilanti MI MI Ferris State University M2 Big Rapids MI MI Grand Valley State University M2 Allendale MI MI Grand Valley State University M3 Allendale MI MI Grand Valley State University W1 Allendale MI MI Hope College M3 Holland MI MI Jackson Community College M3 Jackson MI MI Lake Superior State University M3 Sault Ste Marie MI MI Lansing Community College M3 Lansing MI MI Lawrence Technological University M3 Southfield MI MI Michigan - Flint, University of M2 Flint MI MI Michigan , University of M2 Ann Arbor MI MI Michigan , University of W1 Ann Arbor MI MI Michigan State University M2 East Lansing MI MI Michigan State University W1 East Lansing MI MI Michigan Technological University M2 Houghton MI MI Michigan-Dearborn , University of M1 Dearborn MI MI Northern Michigan University M2 Marquette MI MI Northern Michigan University W1 Marquette MI MI Northwood University M3 Midland MI MI Oakland University M1 Rochester Hills MI MI Oakland University M3 Rochester Hills MI MI Saginaw Valley State University M3 Saginaw MI MI Western Michigan University M1 Kalamazoo MI MI Western Michigan University W1 Kalamazoo MI MI Mesabi Range Community & Technical College M3 Virginia MN MN Minnesota , University of M2 Minneapolis MN MN Minnesota , University of W1 Minneapolis MN MN Minnesota State University-Mankato M2 Mankato MN MN Minnesota-Duluth, University of W2 Duluth MN MN Rainy River Community College W2 International Falls MN MN Saint Cloud State University M2 St. Cloud MN MN Saint Cloud State University W1 St. Cloud MN MN Saint Olaf College M2 Northfield MN MN Saint Scholastica, College of W2 Duluth MN MN Saint Thomas, University of M2 St. Paul MN MN Lindenwood University M1 St. Charles MO CN Lindenwood University M2 St. Charles MO CN Lindenwood University W1 St. Charles MO CN Missouri - Columbia, University of M2 Columbia MO CN Missouri State University - MAROON M2 Springfield MO CN Missouri State University - WHITE M2 Springfield MO CN Saint Louis University M1 St. Louis MO CN Montana State University M2 Bozeman MT RM Montana, University of M2 Missoula MT RM Appalachian State University M3 Boone NC SE Duke University M2 Durham NC SE East Carolina University M3 Greenville NC SE North Carolina - Charlotte, University of M3 Charlotte NC SE North Carolina - Wilmington, University of M3 Wilmington NC SE North Carolina , University of M2 Chapel Hill NC SE North Carolina State University M2 Raleigh NC SE North Carolina State University M3 Raleigh NC SE Minot State University M1 Minot ND MN Minot State University W2 Minot ND MN North Dakota State University M1 Fargo ND MN North Dakota State University W2 Fargo ND MN Creighton University M3 Omaha NE CN Nebraska, University of M2 Lincoln NE CN Daniel Webster College M2 Nashua NH NE Keene State College M2 Keene NH NE New Hampshire, University of M2 Durham NH NE Monmouth University M3 West Long Branch NJ AT Montclair State University M2 Montclair NJ AT New Jersey, The College of M2 Ewing NJ AT Princeton University M2 Princeton NJ AT Richard Stockton College of New Jersey M3 Pomona NJ AT Rider University M2 Lawrenceville NJ AT Rowan University M2 Glassboro NJ AT Rutgers University M1 New Brunswick NJ AT Rutgers University - Camden M3 Camden NJ AT Seton Hall University M2 S Orange NJ AT William Paterson University M2 Wayne NJ AT New Mexico, University of M2 Albuquerque NM RM Nevada-Las Vegas, University of M2 Las Vegas NV PC Albany, State University of New York at M3 Albany NY NY Binghamton University M1 Binghamton NY NY Briarcliffe College M3 Bethpage NY NY Buffalo , University at M1 Buffalo NY NY Buffalo , University at W1 Buffalo NY NY Cornell University M1 Ithaca NY NY Cortland, State University of New York M1 Cortland NY NY Farmingdale, State University of New York M3 Farmingdale NY NY Fordham University M3 Bronx NY NY Fredonia, State University of New York M3 Fredonia NY NY Hofstra University M3 Hempstead NY NY Ithaca College M1 Ithaca NY NY Keuka College M2 Keuka Park NY NY Long Island University-C.W. Post M2 Brookville NY NY Marist College M2 Poughkeepsie NY NY Mount St. Mary's College M3 Newburgh NY NY New Paltz, SUNY- M3 New Paltz NY NY New York University M2 New York NY NY Niagara University M1 Niagara NY NY Oswego State University M1 Oswego NY NY Rochester , University of M1 Rochester NY NY Rochester Institute of Technology M2 Rochester NY NY Saint Bonaventure University M1 St. Bonaventure NY NY Saint Thomas Aquinas College M3 Sparkill NY NY Siena College M2 Loudonville NY NY Skidmore College M3 Saratoga Springs NY NY Stony Brook University M1 Stony Brook NY NY Syracuse University M1 Syracuse NY NY Union College M3 Schenectady NY NY Wagner College M2 Staten Island NY NY Akron, University of M3 Akron OH MD Bowling Green State University M2 Bowling Green OH MD Case Western Reserve University M3 Cleveland OH MD Cincinnati, University of M3 Cincinnati OH MD Dayton , University of M2 Dayton OH MD Denison University M3 Newark OH MD John Carroll University M1 Cleveland OH MD Kent State University M1 Kent OH MD Miami University M2 Oxford OH MD Ohio State University M2 Columbus OH MD Ohio State University W1 Columbus OH MD Ohio University M1 Athens OH MD Ohio Wesleyan University M3 Delaware OH MD Toledo, University of M2 Toledo OH MD Wright State University M2 Dayton OH MD Xavier University M3 Cincinnati OH MD Youngstown State University M1 Youngstown OH MD Central Oklahoma, University of M1 Edmond OK RM Oklahoma University M1 Norman OK RM Oregon , University of M2 Eugene OR PC Portland State University M2 Portland OR PC Allegheny County, Community College of M3 Pittsburgh PA MD Alvernia College M3 Reading PA AT Bucknell University M3 Lewisburg PA AT California University of Pennsylvania M3 California PA MD Dickinson College M3 Carlisle PA AT Drexel University M1 Philadelphia PA AT Drexel University W2 Philadelphia PA AT Duquesne University M1 Pittsburgh PA MD East Stroudsberg University M3 East Stroudsburg PA AT Edinboro University of Pennsylvania M3 Edinboro PA MD Franklin & Marshall College M2 Lancaster PA AT Gettysburg College M3 Gettysburg PA AT Indiana University of Pennsylvania M1 Indiana PA MD Indiana University of Pennsylvania M3 Indiana PA MD Indiana University of Pennsylvania W2 Indiana PA MD Kutztown University M2 Kutztown PA AT La Salle University M2 Philadelphia PA AT Lafayette College M2 Easton PA AT Lehigh University M1 Bethlehem PA AT Lehigh University M3 Bethlehem PA AT Mercyhurst College M1 Erie PA MD Millersville University M2 Millersville PA AT Muhlenberg College M2 Allentown PA AT Neumann College M3 Aston PA AT Pennsylvania , University of W2 Philadelphia PA AT Pennsylvania , University of M2 Philadelphia PA AT Pennsylvania State University M1 State College PA MD Pennsylvania State University M2 State College PA MD Pennsylvania State University W1 State College PA MD Pennsylvania State University-Altoona M3 Altoona PA MD Pennsylvania State University-Behrend M3 Erie PA MD Pennsylvania State University-Berks M1 Reading PA AT Pennsylvania State University-Delaware County M3 Media PA AT Pittsburgh - Johnstown, University of M3 Johnstown PA MD Pittsburgh , University of M3 Pittsburgh PA MD Pittsburgh , University of M1 Pittsburgh PA MD Robert Morris University M1 Moon Township PA MD Robert Morris University M3 Moon Township PA MD Saint Joseph's University M2 Philadelphia PA AT Saint Vincent College M3 Latrobe PA MD Scranton, University of M1 Scranton PA AT Scranton, University of M2 Scranton PA AT Shippensburg University M3 Shippensburg PA AT Slippery Rock University M1 Slippery Rock PA MD Slippery Rock University W2 Slippery Rock PA MD Temple University M2 Philadelphia PA AT Villanova University M1 Philadelphia PA AT Villanova University W2 Philadelphia PA AT Washington & Jefferson College M1 Washington PA MD West Chester University M1 West Chester PA AT Widener University M3 Chester PA AT Bryant University M2 Smithfield RI NE Rhode Island , University of M1 Kingston RI NE Rhode Island , University of W1 Kingston RI NE Rhode Island College M2 Providence RI NE Clemson University M3 Clemson SC SE South Carolina, University of M3 Columbia SC SE South Dakota , University of M3 Vermillion SD MN South Dakota State University M3 Brookings SD MN South Dakota State University W2 Brookings SD MN Middle Tennessee State University M3 Murfreesboro TN SE Tennessee, University of M3 Knoxville TN SE Vanderbilt University M3 Nashville TN SE Baylor University M2 Waco TX RM North Texas, University of M2 Denton TX RM Southern Methodist University M2 Dallas TX RM Texas , University of M2 Austin TX RM Texas A & M University M2 College Station TX RM Texas Tech University M2 Lubbock TX RM Texas-San Antonio, University of M2 San Antonio TX RM Brigham Young University M2 Provo UT RM Utah , University of M2 Salt Lake City UT RM Utah State University M2 Logan UT RM Utah Valley State College M2 Orem UT RM Weber State University M1 Ogden UT RM Christopher Newport University M3 Newport News VA SE George Mason University M2 Fairfax VA SE Liberty University M1 Lynchburg VA SE Liberty University M2 Lynchburg VA SE Liberty University W1 Lynchburg VA SE Lynchburg College M3 Lynchburg VA SE Old Dominion University M3 Norfolk VA SE Radford University M3 Radford VA SE Richmond, University of M3 Richmond VA SE Virginia , University of M2 Charlottesville VA SE Virginia , University of W2 Charlottesville VA SE Virginia Commonwealth University M3 Richmond VA SE Virginia Tech University M2 Blacksburg VA SE William & Mary, College of M3 Williamsburg VA SE Lyndon State College M2 Lyndonville VT NE Vermont, University of M2 Burlington VT NE Columbia Basin College M2 Pasco WA PC Eastern Washington University M2 Cheney WA PC Gonzaga University M2 Spokane WA PC Puget Sound, University of M2 Tacoma WA PC Walla Walla University M2 Walla Walla WA PC Washington , University of M2 Seattle WA PC Washington State University M2 Pullman WA PC Western Washington University M2 Bellingham WA PC Marquette University M2 Milwaukee WI CN Saint Norbert College M2 De Pere WI CN Wisconsin , University of W1 Madison WI CN Wisconsin-Milwaukee, University of M2 Milwaukee WI CN Wisconsin-Platteville, University of M2 Platteville WI CN Wisconsin-Stout, University of W2 Menomonie WI CN West Virginia University M1 Morgantown WV MD West Virginia University - GOLD M2 Morgantown WV MD Wyoming , University of

I find this somewhat entertaining as when I attended UND during the 70s, hockey during the Rube Bjorkman years was not as popular as basketball or football. It was hard to get into a basketball but no thought was necessary to see a hockey game, if wanted to go, you just showed up and there was always seats. I believe it has something to do with winning and everyone is attracted to a winner rather than a loser. Of course, the WCHA consisted of Michigan, Michigan State, and Notre Dame during that time period as well as the Colorado schools, Minnesota, and Wisconsin.

Going back to the argument of the being a union member, its voluntary but you just don't can't work there and earn a living if you don't join the union. Likewise, if UND wasn't a member of the NCAA or similar organization, it couldn't play any games. Right! It's really voluntary

You need to review the ACC raid on the Big East. There were several legal challenges that had occurred although if my memory was correct, they were settled out-of-court or at the local level. Boston College in particular comes to mind As far as the Big Ten Hockey Conference, at this stage, just create it and be done with it as it would stop being a sword over everyone's head. There are positives and negatives to it but the worst situation is not knowing.

Court rulings get over thrown all the time. The current one that I can think of the was the new Supreme Courts' member, Sortameirer (sorry for misspelling) where her ruling on the promotions of firemen (I believe) was denied but the Supreme Court over turned her ruling and said that they should have been promoted. The procedure is very simple, just challenge the ruling to the next higher court if there is a legal standing. It might make it all the way to the Supreme Court whose decision is final, at least for the moment until the next Supreme Court overthrows it (i.e 1890's separate but equal doctrine, 1954 separate is inherently unequal [brown vs Board of Topeka I believe]).

That's an invalid argument. A similar argument can be made that you have the right to join a union or not in a union shop. To get the job, you must join the union. To not join the union means not getting a job. Let's see, join the union and have work or stand on principle and not join the union and starve. Really, do you have a choice (technically you don't have to join the union but you must pay the initiation fee plus the weekly membership fees, effectively making you a union member but without voice and you fall under the union contract with the employee). The NCAA is a monopoly, pure and simple. If you have any doubts about this, please check up on anti-competition laws. Companies that had a smaller percentage of market control than the NCAA has have been broken up (Standard Oil when it was broke up had a smaller market share for example). The NFL and MLB are other examples that are allowed to be monopolies. For schools, there really is no good alternative and to make that argument is a losing proposition. Sort of like you can go to something other than Microsoft Windows. True, there are alternatives but you cant find the software on these operating systems the same as you can for windows. You are really forced to use windows even if you use another operating system. Likewise, the other organizations (NAIA for example) don't have the breathe of membership that is available to the NCAA membership. Schools don't have any real alternative to the NCAA especially in depth and breathe of opportunities. It is conceivable in the future, a major group could form its own organization (BCS schools) come to mind but there really is no viable alternative today.

More than the 2005 team, the team that lost to Livingstone should never have lost. Too much ego cost them the game as they didn't take Livingstone seriously enough. I can still remember reading the comments from Livingstone using the Lou Holtz method of demeaning his own team to get the other team over confident. That team would have beat the 2005 team, IMO.