82SiouxGuy

Not last in the NCAA. Not last in the league. Actually still in the top half of the WCHA yet in spite of the dry spell. Even ahead of Denver in both percentage and total goals. Yet another example of the overreaction of so many people. Power Play: Totals SHA PCT 1 Colorado College 36/153 3 23.5 2 Minnesota Duluth 38/164 3 23.2 3 Wisconsin 27/133 3 20.3 4 St. Cloud State 29/145 2 20.0 5 North Dakota 29/149 2 19.5 6 Denver 26/134 3 19.4 7 Minnesota 20/108 2 18.5 8 Minnesota State 24/137 1 17.5 9 Michigan Tech 17/111 6 15.3 10 Alaska Anchorage 15/125 11 12.0

I will agree with all of this, except I would add some blame to Chapman for the house. He and his wife made demands for extras and for a quicker timeframe. His wife and assistant were on the committee overseeing the project so Chapman should have known that there were problems developing. The Foundation was responsible for the project and deserves more fault but Chapman had a lot of influence on the process. The bottom line is that the process was broken and Chapman was responsible for the process.

Friday tickets are sold. Let me know if you want the Saturday tickets.

Nice tangent. If you really wanted to you could find or manufacture something to protest about any nickname or any issue. Bison or buffaloes are sacred to some tribes. So are eagles. They are also the National bird so you could claim they are trivializing the National bird. Pick any team named after a human or a human trait and someone could get upset about that. Guess what, they're not protesting those names. So none of those other schools care. And they don't understand. So trying to get their support is a lost cause. Now if you want to start picking on the Engineers of RPI, whether it is for real reasons of to prove a point you can go ahead. People aren't going to care. Whether you believe it or not, this is an issue. It is a real issue unlike your picking on the poor Engineers. It is an issue for a sizable number of people. And it is an issue for people in a variety of places, not just the small group that protests at UND or the head people at Standing Rock. Whether you like it or not, it is a real issue for real people. The schools and the Summit League don't want the protests because it isn't their issue. And believe it or not, saving a sports nickname doesn't rank very high with non-sports fans. Many people in academics are not sports fans. They don't care about sports nicknames. As a matter of fact many of them think that they are childish just like a lot of them think sports are childish. Also, they don't see any value to that particular debate. They like debate and protesting issues that are relevant or important. Saving or protesting a sports nickname certainly doesn't fit into either of those descriptions for them.

I still have these tickets available. It should be a great series. Contact me if you are interested.

I never said that the SCSU protests were a big deal, but they were caused by the nickname. You said that no one in any of the current or past conferences had been affected by the UND nickname issue. SCSU and the other examples given prove that the nickname has been an issue at other schools. I never said how significant an issue, but it is an issue. Why would a conference want to knowingly bring those issues to their member schools if they don't have to? If they have a choice in the matter they will try to avoid any possibility of adding problems to all of the issues they already have to deal with. The Summit does not look foolish to the average person now. Most people don't have a clue about the entire situation. College sports fans in this region may know about it, and some even disagree with it, but most don't believe that the Summit looks foolish. The only group that believes the Summit looks foolish are the very strongest Fighting Sioux nickname supporters, and mainly the ones that want to keep the name at all costs. But the Summit probably did learn a lesson in that they got some bad press by making the demand last spring so they will be very hesitant to change that demand again during the process. And your reference to Neville Chamberlain isn't relevant at all. What the SBoHE and the UND administration are doing at this point is making a good business decision based on risk assessment. The chances or odds of successfully keeping the nickname have been bad since the NCAA made their initial ruling and they decrease every day. They have to weigh what it would cost to continue trying to keep it and the odds of being successful plus any potential lost opportunities from not getting into a conference with the costs of changing the name now. They are taking the emotion out of the decision making process because making business decisions based on emotions is a recipe for disaster. Emotionally the vast majority want to keep the nickname. Business decision making says it is rapidly approaching the deadline to make a change.

Good luck with demanding that the Summit change just to suit UND. I will repeat, it is their club, they can make the rules to get into their club. You have selective memory if you don't think that there haven't been issues for other schools in our conferences due to the Fighting Sioux nickname. You just have to look at St. Cloud State University where there are always protests. Yes, they only include a few people. But they are an issue for those schools to deal with and provide publicity that takes away from the games. You can also look at the University of Minnesota. They are a great rival in hockey, but refuse to play UND in other sports because of the nickname issue. There is also no indication that any other demands will be made by the Summit. They have stated that UND needs to settle the Fighting Sioux nickname issue, either yes or no. You are being paranoid if you believe that they will change their public stance in the middle of the application. It would make them look foolish to the average person if they did that, and they are trying to avoid bad PR. It isn't going to happen.

Good for you, ready to make a decision on the future of the entire Athletic Department based on the attendance at 1 event held during a winter storm when the teams are having a down year. That is the type of decision making that got the auto industry in trouble. You do know that the winner of the Summit League basketball tournament gets into the NCAA men's basketball tournament every year, right? Not every 20 years? And that there will only be 12 teams in the league if UND and another school join? So the odds are that each school will get in at least once every 20 years, most will probably get in a couple of times during that period unless they are horrible? And hockey hasn't always been king in Grand Forks or at UND. Basketball has done very well during different stages. The basketball teams at UND even used to outdraw the hockey team during the past 20 years, and at other times also. So basketball probably isn't dead at UND, it is just in a down stage. It needs a few things to be revived, and a conference with an auto bid is one of those things. You may be shorted sighted enough to believe that the rest of the Athletic Department is worthless and you may be willing to throw it all away to make one last gasp attempt to keep the nickname. I can assure you that the people making the decisions don't feel that way, and if they believe the chance of getting into a conference is slipping away they will make the move and take the conference.

1982-86 with UND. Parts of 3 years with the Rangers and 3 years with the Flyers plus a lot of time in the minors until 1998.

Announced from UND.

BUMP

You are correct. It isn't an ideal situation, but it is the hand that UND has been dealt. And it has been known since August 2005 that it could go this way. So no one should be surprised if it actually happens.

Hockey drives the Athletic Department and is the public face of UND because it gets more press, but it doesn't drive the University. Education of students drives the University. The Aviation school and the Business school and the Law School and the Med School and the Engineering school and the other schools, that is what drives the University. That's why the University is more important in the long run than what the nickname is. As I said a few posts ago, it is no longer just a small minority that are driving this bus any more. It may be a minority that really hate the nickname and want it changed, but it is also a minority that is willing to pull out all of the stops to keep it. Except the minority that wants to change it has a couple of rather large allies weighing in on its side in the NCAA and the legal system represented by the settlement. Most of all, a whole lot of people just want it over no matter which way it goes.

I am also a native North Dakotan and a UND Fighting Sioux. Every branch of my family has been in North Dakota for more than a century and I had relatives attending UND when they were the Flickertails. So I also have a lot invested in the University. And I have more Fighting Sioux stuff than you can shake a stick at. But I will continue to support UND even if it ends up with a lame nickname like Sundogs (I will do whatever I can to prevent something that lame even if I can't really do much). One point that we definitely see differently is that I believe we are past the point where just a few whiners are fighting the nickname. That was the situation before the NCAA stepped in with the full force that they have. And before the court settlement that set up a time line for the end of the nickname, or a method to keep the name. The deck is now stacked against keeping the nickname. The odds of keeping the name get worse every day. The number of people that are in favor of keeping the nickname at all costs, or even just pushing it to the limits, is now a minority. I hope that some miracle happens and the name is saved. But I have serious doubts that it will happen.

At least someone gave an answer. I don't agree with all of it, but I agree with some of it. The way they set a deadline was handled poorly. But I believe that they needed to set a deadline in part because of the Summit, but even more important to create a sense of urgency. They needed to try to get something moving at Standing Rock. If they didn't get something moving it would have definitely drug on until the bitter end and still probably wouldn't get settled. I still maintain that the 30 year stipulation was not set in stone. Because of the clause that said the name would have to be changed if the tribes changed their minds, they needed some assurance that the name would be safe for a while. I believe they went with 30 years to start a negotiation and would be willing to discuss other options. You're right that it appears they didn't do enough right after the settlement. They should have been more aggressive in approaching the tribes. I don't know if it would have made a difference or not in getting results, but it would have made nickname supporters feel better about the approach. But I am convinced that the settlement was the best option they had at the time. They probably would have won the lawsuit because the NCAA did not follow it's bylaws in passing the rule against Native American nicknames, but the NCAA had already made plans to change the bylaws to make it legal to do what they did. That bylaw change passed by a wide margin shortly after the settlement. So even if UND had won the lawsuit, the NCAA would have turned around and made the exact same ruling within weeks and UND would have been in the same amount of trouble. The settlement bought time, got rid of the hostile and abusive tag and probably saved money on potential changes at facilities like the Ralph. I am pretty sure that the SBoHE and the UND administration are very aware of potential financial ramifications. I don't think that they will be as severe as you think they will. The vast majority of UND supporters are in favor of the nickname, and a majority of taxpayers in North Dakota are in favor of it. But not all of them are nearly as fanatical as others. Many people have grown tired of the hassles and will not be overly upset if a change has to be made. Others have accepted that getting into an auto bid conference is more important than continuing to fight about the name. And some people, maybe a majority of North Dakota taxpayers, don't have that much invested in the name so it doesn't affect them either way. There will be donors that refuse to ever give money again because of this issue. There will be donors that quit giving for a while and then return. There will be donors that decrease their giving, either for a while or permanently. And there will be donors that continue to give as they have or maybe even increase their giving. I don't numbers for the categories. I know that 98% of the donors won't fall into the quit giving category. And I would guess that the SBoHE and UND administration through the Alumni Foundation have a pretty good idea where those numbers will actually fall. I am not sure whether your ideas for working with Standing Rock would make a difference or not. Their leadership is much more entrenched in the nickname opponent category than Spirit Lake ever was. Standing Rock has had a more militant attitude going all the way back to when Sitting Bull was alive. From some comments made last fall I don't think they consider the SBoHE their equal, they see the Governor or possibly the Congressional delegations as the closest to equal in the state so I don't know if they would work with the SB at all, in the past or in the future. And time is an enemy to the process even if you disregard the Summit League issue. The process moves slowly on most reservations even when they are motivated. They aren't motivated. Your plan would definitely help save face with many alumni, but I don't know if it would result in anything other than making people feel better. The SBoHE and the UND administration have more inside information than any of us making comments on this board. They should know more about what was actually done and what wasn't, because I'm sure that not all efforts were made public. They should all have a better grasp on the wide range of issues that will be affected by a potential name change, and should be able to see the big picture better than we do. And they have the power to make the decision. They have made mistakes along the way, but they were also forced into many of those situations by the NCAA. I believe that they are trying to do what they believe is in the best interests of the University of North Dakota. So I will continue to support the University whether the name is changed or not.

We had at least a couple of glaciers, but the last one resulted in Lake Agassiz. It was a fairly recent glacier. The ground is still rebounding from the weight of the glacier. Plus the Red River, which was the last remnant of the lake, drains north into Lake Winnipeg. The various beaches from Lake Agassiz are still visible if you know what you are looking for. There are sand and rock deposits in strips with the biggest deposits 30 to 40 miles on either side of the Red River. And you can see where the valley starts as you drive north through northern South Dakota on Interstate 29.

I can see it now. UND will go with 2 forwards and 3 defensemen on each line. That should really excite everyone that doesn't think they score enough goals the way it is.

Dan Terhaar was the UND hockey announcer during a break in Tim's run. All UND sports used to be on KNOX and that is where Tim started in Grand Forks (maybe the late 70's). Tim, Swyg and Jim Bollman did all of the play by play and they also did some color. At one point UND sports and all 3 announcers jumped to another station in town. At the end of that contract KNOX got the hockey back and hired Terhaar to do play by play. It was probably only for 2 or 3 years. Then KNOX lost the contract again and Tim took over again. Tim and Swyg have been at what is now Clear Channel for probably a decade or longer. I believe that Terhaar also did St. Cloud Huskies hockey but I don't remember if that was before or after UND.

Minnesota Duluth is more of a fun rivalry, while Denver is much more intense like the other said. UMD is more like backyard fun while Denver is grudge match. I wouldn't put Denver quite to the University of Minnesota level for all of us, but it is probably at least number 2 for most people right now. So it probably depends on whether you want a fun, relaxed series or you want to see intense, playoff style hockey. According to the tentative football and hockey schedules, UND will be hosting Lamar University in football the weekend of the Denver series and they will be hosting UC Davis, a league opponent, the weekend of the Duluth series. At this point neither the football or hockey schedules are confirmed, but the football schedule should be pretty solid.

Funny, you got waterfalls and escarpments when the glaciers receded and we got the flattest section of land in the world. I guess it just depended on what kind of land or rock was underneath the glacier.

AZSioux is one of our experts on jerseys, both game worn and replicas. He can help you with any questions. UND regularly auctions off game worn jerseys, and as AZ says they are not cheap. The least known players usually fetch several hundred dollars and a few stars have gone for several thousand dollars. I think the best game worn jersey story for UND was on the road. It happened at Maine when Shawn Walsh was sick. UND had special jerseys made just for the game. As the team skated out the fans at Maine realized all the jerseys had Walsh for a nameplate. They auctioned the jerseys off after the game and donated the money to cancer research if I remember correctly. It helped make UND fans out of a lot of Maine supporters.

I don't know if the person you talked with is correct or not. It is possible that the Summit (or some faction of the league) doesn't like the name. But it is also possible that they have some legitimate reasons for their stance. I have gone over some of those in the past. The big question is when they want to add teams to the league. If their time line is flexible and they won't say anything about it, then they probably have ulterior motives. If they set up a time line a year or more ago that includes having 12 teams on July 1, 2011, then they probably have a legitimate reason to keep that schedule. That schedule would mean that they have to name the teams before July 1, 2010, and would have to start vetting applicants soon so they can complete reviews and site visits. And no matter what some people think, trying to avoid any bad public relations is a legitimate reason for their public stance on the nickname. It probably could have been handled much better, but it is also important for UND to know the truth. It would have been a real shame for UND to apply to the league, not get in, and then find out that the reason was because of issues with the name. But I was serious about my question, and I wasn't trying to start an argument. What could the SBoHE have done during the past 2+ years to save the nickname that they didn't do? And what could they still do now that isn't being done?

Why not? I think you could find a lot of college hockey fans around the country that choose UND as a 2nd favorite team, or at least a team they like to follow. Either that or they hate the Sioux, and we all know those people are jealous.

I would be interested to find out what else you and others think could have been done to keep the name. Right now I am talking about the period since the settlement with the NCAA. I think that most of us agree that things could have been handled much differently in the 20 or 30 years before the NCAA issued their edict, but that is 20-20 hindsight. I would like to get some ideas about what could have been done during the last 2+ years to keep the name, or even what could still be done. All we hear is complaints that not enough is being done, but we hear nothing about what could be done. The main roadblock on the issue now, and for the past several years, has been the Standing Rock reservation. When Ron His Horse is Thunder was Tribal Chair he had pretty thorough power and did not want to even look at the issue other than to try to get rid of the nickname. They wouldn't even discuss ways to allow UND to keep the name. There was some hope that the election last fall would open up the Tribal government to changing their stance. From the blog and from other reports it appears that Dr. Goetz and Mr. Shaft, along with others, have tried to have conversations with Tribal Leaders. They have tried communicating in person, by telephone and by mail. As of right now those Tribal Leaders have shown no interest in doing anything. They didn't even want to discuss the issue after the election. Mr. Murphy said that they would get around to it when they got around to it, they wouldn't work on anyone else's time line. When do you think they plan to get around to it? So far they won't even tell the SBoHE an estimate of when they might start discussing it. Will they even consider a referendum? The Tribal Attorney issued an opinion that the past stance against referendums was not legal, but the Tribal Council still hasn't even communicated whether they would accept that ruling. I think that the SBoHE is running out of options. A referendum process would probably take at least 3-6 months, depending on how hard things are pushed. It takes that much time to get the language approved for a referendum, get enough signatures to get it on a ballot, have a period of campaigning and discussion, hold the election, get a count and have the Tribal Council approve the results. But the process doesn't even exist on Standing Rock so the Tribal Council would have to create the system first, which would take more time. For instance, no one knows how many signatures they would need to get because there are no rules in place. And they haven't even shown an interest in reviewing the idea of holding a referendum, much less starting the process. The tribal members that would need to push this through the system don't seem nearly as interested or as dedicated as the members at Spirit Lake. If they aren't pushing it now, when will they? With an absolute drop dead deadline of November 30th, when would you accept the fact that it is too late to get anything done if the process doesn't get started? We are only 10 months away from the deadline, and with a process that will probably take more than 6 months at a minimum, the process is running out of time. As far as your comment about not getting into the Summit, if UND applies soon the chances of not getting into the league are very small. Kelley said that he had been assured by several school Presidents that it wouldn't be a problem. And the interim President at NDSU has gone on record that he would push for UND. If the application isn't processed in the next 30-90 days (just a guess, it might be less than that) it is probably a crapshoot. No one that is speaking seems to know what the Summit League plan is for sure. They have said that they would like 12 teams so they can operate in divisions to save travel expense. The last plan that was discussed was to select those schools this spring and have them become official members on July 1, 2011. If they really want to follow that time line they will start the process soon, which is why UND would need to make an application. If that 2011 date isn't set in stone then UND could have some wiggle room. According to the information from Mr. Faison, the Summit League office would not give an official statement on the subject, but his impression was that UND needed to move on the application process which means the Summit is going to add schools during the next few months. So if UND waits too long, there probably is a decent chance that they don't get in now or in the next few years.