[The Sanctions and Punishments Have Arrived]

Destroying the Athletic Department may be an option for you and a few others. It isn't for the other 95% of us.

[Media Stories on the Sioux Name]

So the ND SBoHE suing to keep the Legislature's own last action in tact is somehow challenging the Legislature's power?

Is uproarious laughter allowed in the NDSC chamber if the justices are the ones laughing?

He has also said that questioning the constitutionality of a law is wrong if it is the will of the people, and by that he meant that 16,000+ people had signed a petition.

[Media Stories on the Sioux Name]

It turns out the Supreme Court has decided to give the nickname supporters an extra 3 days to file their briefs. The earlier report was wrong.

[Media Stories on the Sioux Name]

http://www.inforum.c...group/homepage/

Big Al hires Pat Durick

I'm shocked, shocked I say, that Al was able to get his way. How many billable hours do you think Durick has already put in working on the issue for Al?

[The Sanctions and Punishments Have Arrived]

Yep, that's why I keep saying either make them change the rules or else tell them we do not wish to associate ourselves with that kind of party. To continue associating with the NCAA is to indirectly approve of their racist policy.

How do you propose to make them change their rules? And, again, leaving the NCAA would mean destroying the Athletic Department and that isn't an option. Since you don't like associating with the NCAA you should just stop watching all college sports other than the NAIA. Otherwise you are just a hypocrite.

[Media Stories on the Sioux Name]

You snooze, ...

They should be prepared to go before the NDSC already. Weren't they there (and lost) a couple months back?

PS - I don't think the court is tipping it's hand. It's just playing from the ace down the hand full of trump it holds.

The other message is that we're not going to waste any time. Everyone should have known this is coming so let's get it done.

[The Sanctions and Punishments Have Arrived]

You, my friend, should change your name to "82SiouxEncyclopedia"

I've been told that I can be rather verbose at times. And that was by my mother.

[Media Stories on the Sioux Name]

This is what I said along time ago while the rest of you were supporting him. Well at least until you found out what he was doing would hurt UND.

Don't lump all of us together. I fought the law during the session last year, including sending emails to legislators before they voted and talking to local legislators on a 1 to 1 basis while they were back for a couple of forums. And several others on this forum also were against the law from the beginning.

[Media Stories on the Sioux Name]

so your just a bunch a contrarian people with bad attitudes ?

No. We are able to see that Al Carlson and several others are using the controversy over changing the UND nickname to accomplish a totally different agenda. And they are willing to allow damage to be done to UND in order to accomplish that agenda. We have made a significant investment of time and/or money in the University, and have a deep attachment to the University. Therefore we want to limit the damage as much as possible, and we want to allow the University to move forward as quickly as possible.

You and several others seem to have based your whole being on a sports team nickname and logo. Not even on the success or failure of the team, just on the nickname and logo.

[2012 NDSU schedule]

Let's see. Most FCS teams want to play 5 road games (either 1 FBS and 4 FCS or 5 FCS) and 6 home games (usually all FCS). I can't imagine why that would be a problem.

[The Sanctions and Punishments Have Arrived]

Or at the least the three other Chippewa tribes in Michigan. I've also wondered why UND didn't need approval of the Lake Traverse Sioux Reservation, which like Standing Rock, is mostly within the state of South Dakota.

My guess, and again it is only a guess, is that none of the Chippewa tribes had made any noise about being opposed. Or maybe they already had been involved in the discussion at some point and had stated they were not opposed.

Going back and reading the stories about the Oklahoma Seminole situation leads me to this supposition. The NCAA spent several years studying the situation and discussing it with different tribes. They felt there was enough opposition to the use of Native American nicknames to go ahead with the ban. They were depending on the opposition by the Oklahoma Seminoles to give them ammunition to fight the approval of the Florida Seminole Nation because they knew Florida State was going to be a problem. When they discovered that the Oklahoma tribes were not opposed, they moved quickly to find a fallback position. The approval of a namesake tribe was that position. It gave the NCAA an out that had some basis in logic, saying that it would be acceptable if a tribe actually gave approval. Several schools took advantage of the option including Central Michigan.

UND has had a vocal opposition for many years. It has probably been more vocal than most other schools using Native American nicknames. In spite of this, UND had the opportunity to take advantage of the single namesake tribe approval option. Lake Traverse might have been acceptable as an option, but I believe that they have been opposed to the nickname also. Reports have said that all Sioux tribes other than Spirit Lake have some kind of statement against UND's use of the nickname. Lake Traverse is also a member of the Great Plains Tribal Chairmen's Association, and that group has been vocally opposed to UND using the name. The last vote was 11-0 against with 5 tribes missing. A previous vote was 15-0 with only Spirit Lake not voting. I have always thought that the NCAA picked Spirit Lake and Standing Rock for the settlement because Spirit Lake is the closest tribe and because they knew Standing Rock was very vocally opposed, so the NCAA figured it would be very hard for UND to get approval from both.

[BU]

Can't remember, what was Vinny Saponari kicked off the team for a few years ago?

Parker said it was for multiple things, but it sounded like mainly an underage drinking incident and then not reporting for his discipline. His brother Victor was also kicked off and another player suspended. Vinny is playing for Northeastern this year.

[The Sanctions and Punishments Have Arrived]

According to this article in the USA Today ( http://www.usatoday....-approved_x.htm ) The NCAA granted namesake exemption without formal approval from the Oklahoma Seminole tribe. Based on everything that I have seen, the Oklahoma Seminole tribe has never approved the use of the name.

"But dissent has been voiced within the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma, primarily by general council member David Narcomey, but the council has taken no official position on the FSU issue, according to Jennifer McBee, the tribe attorney general. Narcomey, saying he was voicing his opinion only, wrote in an e-mail to USA TODAY of the decision: "I am deeply appalled, incredulously disappointed ... I am nauseated that the NCAA is allowing this 'minstrel show' to carry on this form of racism in the 21st century."

The amazing part of all this is that the NCAA issued the policy on Aug 12th 2005 and by Aug 23rd 2005 the NCAA had changed the policy to allow namesake exemptions and completed a review and approved a school to use this exemption in one in 8 business days.

I'm pretty sure the policy came out on Aug 5, 2005.

Using Native American names and imagery in college sports had been a topic of conversation for a while. I found this article on the issue from the Florida State perspective in the Jacksonville newspaper, http://jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/081205/col_19484407.shtml, from Aug 12, 2005 that says:

Last month the Oklahoma nation defeated a motion to denounce the use of Native American nicknames and images in sports and other events by an 18-2 vote, according to tribal officials.

That isn't exactly direct approval, but they weren't against.

From a St. Petersburg paper that same day, http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1461861/posts:

A controversial NCAA decision restricting Florida State University's use of an American Indian mascot was based on incomplete information and will be reconsidered, a top NCAA official said Thursday.

Walter Harrison, who chairs the committee that approved a policy directed at 18 schools with "hostile and abusive" American Indian mascots, said FSU has "good grounds" to appeal.

Among the reasons, he said, are that the NCAA Executive Committee thought the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma opposed FSU's use of the Seminole image as a mascot.

That was based partly on letters the committee received from David Narcomey, a member of the General Council of the Seminole Nation of Oklahoma.

But Narcomey was not authorized to speak on behalf of the tribal nation and "misrepresented" its view, the tribe's attorney general said Thursday.

In fact, Narcomey pushed for a tribal resolution condemning the use of American Indian mascots and imagery, specifically at FSU. It was defeated last month by an 18-2 vote.

Sounds like a relative of Ron His Horse is Thunder.

[Media Stories on the Sioux Name]

Maybe I can win Powerball Saturday.

Comparable odds.

Good point.

[Media Stories on the Sioux Name]

http://www.jamestown...e/id/D9T3BV0O0/

Carlson & Co meet tomorrow.

Not a lot of time for whomever they do hire. Briefs are due one week from their meeting.

Maybe the rest of the group can reign him in.

[New turf at the Alerus]

Do you mean the new 45,000 seat Memorial Stadium that will be the home of the University of North Dakota Screaming Wombats of the newly formed Big 64 Western Mountain Southwestern Mid-American NorAtlanticEast Pacific Sky Athletic Coalition Conference of North America?

I can't wait!

Will the winner of the conference get an automatic bid to the Cherry Berry FroYo Bowl?

[New turf at the Alerus]

Ok thanks, but where do they hide the eggs?

I don't know, I've never gone. I think they have egg rolling contests. Maybe it's egg picking rather than egg finding?

[New turf at the Alerus]

I think you are pretty close. Maybe a few more than two.

This weekend is the Mens Show.

Next is Class B Basketball.

Next is the Healthy Living Expo/Budget RV show.

March 17: Democratic Convention (this is one of the open weekendsm but I don't know. It was in the arena the year I went to it. )

March 24: Home Design & Garden Show (Never been there but probably in the Arena like the Mens Show)

May 7: Easter Egg Hunt (not sure where this is at? Open weekend number two?)

May 14: Harlem Globtrotters and Motorcycle show.

April 21& 28 May 5: Proms (three more open weekends)

May 12: UND graduation

May 19: Flea Market (there last year its in the arena. Place is packed)

May 27: High School Graduations

And then June. That makes three to five open weekends between now and June, at most. This isn't to say just because an event is scheduled for the arena in the same date, they couldn't have both events.

Home and Garden show fills the arena and they use some of the meeting rooms for classes. Easter egg hunt is in the arena the morning before Easter, takes most of the morning at least. And they sometimes have private events that aren't on the schedule. So my guess is that there aren't very many openings in that period.

[The Sanctions and Punishments Have Arrived]

Unreasonable demands, like changing your identity. If I had the power to call the shots I would fight the NCAA for as long as possible. If and when we reached a point where they had us backed into a corner I would simply tell them "fine, if that's the way you're going to play I don't even want to be a part of your association anymore". Yeah, it's the ultimate sacrifice. I get that. But when forced to choose between that and selling your soul, I consider the ultimate sacrifice to be the lesser of two evils. Being submissive to the demands of the NCAA equals whoring yourself out, and I could never look myself in the mirror again if I whored myself out. It's a matter of pride and principle.

You know the old saying, "Pride goeth before the fall", which is a shortened version of "Pride goeth before destruction, and an haughty spirit before a fall". You can believe anything you want about the nickname, and you can refuse to be a fan if the nickname is changed. But you have absolutely no right to try to force the destruction of the Athletic Department to win your war, especially since you have absolutely no connection to the University other than being a fan of the nickname.

[The Sanctions and Punishments Have Arrived]

Doesn't winning a lawsuit necessarily imply that the Court afforded the requested relief to the Plaintiff? If the State won then UND wouldn't have been placed on sanctions. That's why litigation was commenced in the first place.

You would think so, but the circumstances changed during the time of the lawsuit. I will try to give a Readers Digest version by memory. Someone can correct any mistakes I may have, and remember that I am not an attorney.

The UND lawsuit had several points. But the main point was that the NCAA did not follow their own policies and procedures or their bylaws in the way the Native American mascot policy was approved. The policy was put in place by an Executive Committee. The NCAA policy in place at that time said that issues such as this had to go to a vote of the general membership. One theory at the time was that the policy would not have been approved by the general membership so they tried to shortcircuit the process.

I also believe that there was an anti-trust element to the lawsuit. However, the judge himself stated that it was a very weak argument. He basically let it go to discovery only because the other point or points were relevant. But he said they would need to find a lot more before he would let them take the anti-trust portion to trial.

During the discovery process the NCAA corrected their problem. They sent a new policy to a vote of the general membership that would allow the Executive Committee to pass this type of policy. Everyone knew that this was happening because of the lawsuit and the NA policy. The new policy passed by a large margin, which really showed that the general membership would probably also support the NA mascot policy. Then, the Executive Committee passed the same NA mascot policy a second time. I believe that it passed the January after the settlement (that would be January 2008), but it may have been before. They had already processed all of the school appeals, so they could easily have stated they wouldn't take any more appeals and that sanctions would immediately be in effect for any school that wasn't in compliance.

This is why UND could have won the lawsuit on their main point and still been on sanctions within days or months at the latest. UND could have been on sanctions some time in 2008 with no hope of getting tribal approval of any kind since Spirit Lake didn't give approval until 2009 (I believe that the trial was scheduled to start right around Christmas 2007). The settlement gave UND 3 years to get approvals and guaranteed almost 4 more years using the nickname with at least a little hope of keeping it long term.

[The Right Thing to do]

I'm sure the damage isn't just be done on the athletic front. This can't be good institutionally.

I agree completely. But the cancelled games and the information provided by Lennon is obvious to everyone, so even the naysayers should have to acknowledge that there might be some truth to those things.

[New turf at the Alerus]

Denver has five home weekends and is hosting their conference tournament. Finding three or four more weekends is possible if revenue is involved.

http://www.denverpio...874&SPSID=90261

PS - I looked at the Alerus schedule and many of those events are using the Aurora Ballroom, not the main arena floor.

http://www.aleruscen...012&GoToMonth=2

I don't think the schedule online is complete. The marketing person from the Alerus Center was on the radio this morning talking about the Class B basketball tournament and said that the arena was booked every weekend except 2 until June. She might have meant the building, but did say the arena. The building itself hosts well over 300 events per year and has something in at least 1 room just about every day.

[The Right Thing to do]

And he doesn't recognize that UND has already been damaged. They have lost scheduled sporting events and there is strong evidence that they have lost the opportunity to recruit talented athletes. He is very naive if he believes that these things won't continue to happen and probably will escalate.

[The Sanctions and Punishments Have Arrived]

Good question!!!! I would like to know the answer to that... I also think that PCM is right that stuff doesn't happen in a vaccum.

He has been asked about it, and he has answered the question. PCM is pretty much spot on. And Wayne has said that the one thing that the NCAA wouldn't negotiate was the need to get approval from 2 tribes. They wouldn't agree to the settlement without that point. I'm sure that the NCAA knew Standing Rock would not change their mind easily. But the other choice was that UND would go on the sanctions list almost as soon as the trial ended, win or lose.

[The Sanctions and Punishments Have Arrived]

ten yrs is a long time I can see them worming out of it down the road thus sticking it to GF tax payers

It's a contract. They would pay a penalty for getting out of it. And they have already played there for 10 years, so another 10 years would not be a shock.