siouxnami Posted January 16, 2006 Posted January 16, 2006 USCHO has a poll where you can voice your opinion. This is HIGHLY scientific. Right now it seems about 85-15 for keeping the name. www.uscho.com Now resume flaming... Quote
BleedGrn Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 USCHO has a poll where you can voice your opinion. This is HIGHLY scientific. Right now it seems about 85-15 for keeping the name. www.uscho.com Now resume flaming... Initially, I was excited about the poll on USCHO, until I realized that it won't mean anything to GK, KTF, and Mako. I suspect that it will be totally discounted as nothing more than a rigged plot or a meaningless poll of opinions that don't matter. Explain to me how changing the name is going to better anyone's life. Continued belligerence is doing nothing but driving a wedge between people who have no other reason not to coexist peacefully. Quote
Sioux-cia Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Explain to me how changing the name is going to better anyone's life. You don't know! Well, when the Fighting Sioux name and logo are changed to the 'No Name' and a picture of a turnip, the top ten things that will happen 10. Everyone will own their own home with two new cars in the two car garage 9. Global warming will be a thing of the past 8. There will be no hunger in the world 7. Chemical addiction will be a thing of the past, world wide 6. Everyone in the world will receive health care free of charge 5. Everyone will have a college and post graduate degree 4. Racism, bigotry will no longer exist 3. Child abuse, domestic abuse, all abuse will no longer exist 2. World peace And topping off the top ten list 1. North American will revert back to American Indians and each American Indian will be granted one billion dollars to be considered payment in full for any and all real, imagined or thought about bad past deeds (but only if they are not "hang around the fort Indians" or Indians with "plantation Negro mentalities" ). Quote
KnowtheFacts Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 You don't know! Well, when the Fighting Sioux name and logo are changed to the 'No Name' and a picture of a turnip, the top ten things that will happen 10. Everyone will own their own home with two new cars in the two car garage 9. Global warming will be a thing of the past 8. There will be no hunger in the world 7. Chemical addiction will be a thing of the past, world wide 6. Everyone in the world will receive health care free of charge 5. Everyone will have a college and post graduate degree 4. Racism, bigotry will no longer exist 3. Child abuse, domestic abuse, all abuse will no longer exist 2. World peace And topping off the top ten list 1. North American will revert back to American Indians and each American Indian will be granted one billion dollars to be considered payment in full for any and all real, imagined or thought about bad past deeds (but only if they are not "hang around the fort Indians" or Indians with "plantation Negro mentalities" ). wow! thats pretty optimistic. However, I dont think the benefits will be that obvious to the people the logo/nickname does not effect negatively. I do think however that when the logo/nick is changed, the Sioux tribes may finally feel a bit honored. - you know that UND finally listened to their multiple requests to remove the logo and nick out of respect for their culture. Maybe American Indians on this campus wont feel spotlighted everytime UND-anything is brought up as a topic. Maybe UND can do some real good for the people in the surrounding communities that are American Indian instead of using them as examples of how they are being "honored". And hey, if BananaSlugs can be successful, so can Turnips. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Maybe American Indians on this campus wont feel spotlighted everytime UND-anything is brought up as a topic. Who always seems to be turning on and directing the spotlight (at themselves)? Quote
PCM Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Maybe UND can do some real good for the people in the surrounding communities that are American Indian instead of using them as examples of how they are being "honored". Could you point out an example of a state-run university in this region that does more for the American Indian people than UND? Or is not honoring them by ignoring the existence of American Indians and their role in North Dakota's heritage all that matters? Quote
KnowtheFacts Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Could you point out an example of a state-run university in this region that does more for the American Indian people than UND? Or is not honoring them by ignoring the existence of American Indians and their role in North Dakota's heritage all that matters? Could you point out an example of a state-run university in this region that has more resolutions from tribes asking for the discontinuation of its nickname and logo? The only way UND can acknowlege the existence and heritage of American Indians is if they get to use them as a logo? Other schools in this region do have programming for American Indians. However, they dont feel like they have to wear it on their shirt like a trophy. Quote
KnowtheFacts Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Initially, I was excited about the poll on USCHO, until I realized that it won't mean anything to GK, KTF, and Mako. I suspect that it will be totally discounted as nothing more than a rigged plot or a meaningless poll of opinions that don't matter. Explain to me how changing the name is going to better anyone's life. Continued belligerence is doing nothing but driving a wedge between people who have no other reason not to coexist peacefully. Hello! The answer is in the poll itself: "Do you hope that North Dakota continues to win appeals to be allowed to use a Native American nickname and logo?" what appeal has UND won? Nothing yet. Quote
PCM Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Could you point out an example of a state-run university in this region that has more resolutions from tribes asking for the discontinuation of its nickname and logo? I'm looking for factual answers. If you don't know the answer, just say so. The only way UND can acknowlege the existence and heritage of American Indians is if they get to use them as a logo?It's one way. Nobody ever said it was the only way. Other schools in this region do have programming for American Indians. Name one school that comes anywhere near UND's level of programming. However, they dont feel like they have to wear it on their shirt like a trophy. UND isn't the only university in the nation that promotes its minority education programs. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 what appeal has UND won? NCAA says: No uniforms with "hostile and abusive" logos and words in post-season effective August 5, 2005. Later reality, by UND appealing and getting the NCAA to back down: UND's football team looked good with "Sioux" on the helmet and the logo on the jersey against UMD and GVSU. NCAA says: No arenas with "hostile and abusive" logos and words can host after February 1, 2006. Later reality, by UND appealing and getting the NCAA to back down: NCAA West Region still on in Ralph Engelstad Arena. NCAA says: This policy is in full effect on February 1, 2006. Later reality, by UND appealing and getting the NCAA to back down (specifically from the NCAA letter to Dr. Kupchella dated January 4, 2006): "... although the policy becomes effective February 1, 2006, the Executive Committee will stay the application of all provisions of the policy for all institutions in the appeal process, ... including North Dakota. Small victories, but victories just the same. Quote
Sioux-cia Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I don't understand why there are American Indian students enrolled at the University of North Dakota, Home of the Fighting Sioux?! Why here? American Indians have been instrumental for the grants, etc. that partially fund the American Indian programs and services at the University of North Dakota, Home of the Fighting Sioux. Why not take those funds to Fargo, Bismarck, Minot or any school in South Dakota. Why here? There are many good schools in North Dakota and South Dakota (and elsewhere in the United States) which offer some of the same programs that are offered at the University of North Dakota, Home of the Fighting Sioux. Why in the world would any one go to a school that they consider is hostile and abusive to them? Why here? Quote
PCM Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The phone rings. KtF: Hello. UND: Hello. Is this Ms. KnowtheFacts? KtF: Yes it is. UND:Ms. KtF, I'm calling to let you know that UND is going to honor you for tremendous accomplishments, your outstanding academic achievement and your important, groundbreaking contributions to the university. KtF: Really? That's wonderful. UND: Yes, it is. Congratulations! KtF: I'm so overwhelmed that I don't know what to say. I've worked so long, so hard, and now... UND: Terrific! That's what we were hoping! KtF: Huh? What do you mean? UND: Well, knowing how you feel about honors, we thought it best if we didn't tell anyone about this. KtF: You mean I don't get a dinner, a plaque, a scholarship or my name in the paper? UND: That's right. Isn't it thrilling? KtF: Umm...well...can I tell my family about this honor? UND: You can, but officially, we'll deny it if anyone asks. Mum's the word here. We're locking our lips and throwing away the key. You have nothing to worry about. Nobody will ever know that you were one of the greatest students to ever attend this institution. I guarantee it. KtF: But what if I want people to know? What if it will help me get a better job after I graduate? UND: We weighed those considerations and decided that the risks were greater than actually bestowing the honor. KtF: What do you call this honor? UND: We don't call it anything. If we tried to name it, someone might be offended and question whether it was actually intended as an honor. This way, our intentions remain as pure as the driven snow and nobody can claim to be offended. KtF: So what's the point? UND: The point is to honor you without disrespecting you by letting people know about the honor. KtF: But what good is an honor with no recognition? UND: Frankly, we used to operate on the same outdated concept. But then we read some of your Internet message board postings on the Fighting Sioux nickname issue and you convinced us that we were going about this all wrong. We now know that the best way to honor people is to pretend that they don't exist. That way, we avoid controversy and bad publicity. And besides that, it's a lot cheaper. KtF: Click. UND: Hello? Hello? Sigh. I guess she didn't want to be honored after all. Quote
KnowtheFacts Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I don't understand why there are American Indian students enrolled at the University of North Dakota, Home of the Fighting Sioux?! Why here? American Indians have been instrumental for the grants, etc. that partially fund the American Indian programs and services at the University of North Dakota, Home of the Fighting Sioux. Why not take those funds to Fargo, Bismarck, Minot or any school in South Dakota. Why here? There are many good schools in North Dakota and South Dakota (and elsewhere in the United States) which offer some of the same programs that are offered at the University of North Dakota, Home of the Fighting Sioux. Why in the world would any one go to a school that they consider is hostile and abusive to them? Why here? why do illegal immigrants come to america? Opportunity despite the risk. Quote
KnowtheFacts Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The phone rings. KtF: Hello. UND: Hello. Is this Ms. KnowtheFacts? KtF: Yes it is. UND:Ms. KtF, I'm calling to let you know that UND is going to honor you for tremendous accomplishments, your outstanding academic achievement and your important, groundbreaking contributions to the university. KtF: Really? That's wonderful. UND: Yes, it is. Congratulations! KtF: I'm so overwhelmed that I don't know what to say. I've worked so long, so hard, and now... UND: Terrific! That's what we were hoping! KtF: Huh? What do you mean? UND: Well, knowing how you feel about honors, we thought it best if we didn't tell anyone about this. KtF: You mean I don't get a dinner, a plaque, a scholarship or my name in the paper? UND: That's right. Isn't it thrilling? KtF: Umm...well...can I tell my family about this honor? UND: You can, but officially, we'll deny it if anyone asks. Mum's the word here. We're locking our lips and throwing away the key. You have nothing to worry about. Nobody will ever know that you were one of the greatest students to ever attend this institution. I guarantee it. KtF: But what if I want people to know? What if it will help me get a better job after I graduate? UND: We weighed those considerations and decided that the risks were greater than actually bestowing the honor. KtF: What do you call this honor? UND: We don't call it anything. If we tried to name it, someone might be offended and question whether it was actually intended as an honor. This way, our intentions remain as pure as the driven snow and nobody can claim to be offended. KtF: So what's the point? UND: The point is to honor you without disrespecting you by letting people know about the honor. KtF: But what good is an honor with no recognition? UND: Frankly, we used to operate on the same outdated concept. But then we read some of your Internet message board postings on the Fighting Sioux nickname issue and you convinced us that we were going about this all wrong. We now know that the best way to honor people is to pretend that they don't exist. That way, we avoid controversy and bad publicity. And besides that, it's a lot cheaper. KtF: Click. UND: Hello? Hello? Sigh. I guess she didn't want to be honored after all. UND: Hello, is this PCM? PCM: why yes it is! UND: Do you ever actually work at the job we are paying you for? Or do you just spend all day chatting online and furthering your own personal agendas? PCM: um, er.... Anyhow, a plaque award whatever you are talking about is totally different that using a sterotyped image on a hockey jersey and the nickname "Fighting Sioux" across someone's behind on their sweatpants. I see you are of the thought that if the "Fighting Sioux" image and nick is removed then the Sioux people will fade into memory. No, only your stereotypical images and beliefs will fade. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 ... chatting online and furthering your own personal agendas? Careful. That rock can be flung in many different directions, including the boomerang feature. Quote
KnowtheFacts Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 Careful. That rock can be flung in many different directions, including the boomerang feature. I dont work for UND. Quote
KnowtheFacts Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 [However, they dont feel like they have to wear it on their shirt like a trophy. UND isn't the only university in the nation that promotes its minority education programs. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I dont work for UND. Re-read the excerpt: Boomerang feature activated. Quote
Sioux-cia Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 why do illegal immigrants come to america? Opportunity despite the risk. There's only one United States of America. There are hundreds of other universities/colleges in the United States of American that have the same "opportunity" without the "risk" as the University of North Dakota, Home of the Fighting Sioux for American Indian students. Why come here? Quote
Sioux-cia Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 UND: Hello, is this PCM? PCM: why yes it is! UND: Do you ever actually work at the job we are paying you for? Or do you just spend all day chatting online and furthering your own personal agendas? Dam#, conversations flowing fairly respectfully, then boom, the insults start. I had high hopes that maybe KTF could handle the give and take. But once again, in the face of not being able to come up with good responses to the questions, she starts attacking the person. Quote
Sioux-cia Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 I dont work for UND. I know what your suppose to be doing and chatting on line with the rest of us in the middle of the afternoon ain't getting it done. Quote
The Sicatoka Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 starts attacking the person. The phrase you're looking for is "goes ad hominem." Quote
Sioux-cia Posted January 17, 2006 Posted January 17, 2006 The phrase you're looking for is "goes ad hominem." Thanks, Sic. I had to look it up. Now I own it. Quote
PCM Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 Exactly and those other schools don't have to use an Indian logo or nickname to accomplish it. You and G-Krack make a nice team. He's on one thread berating UND for not using the name and logo to attract American Indian students and you're on another thread berating UND for using it. Maybe you two could get together and compare notes sometime. Quote
KnowtheFacts Posted January 18, 2006 Posted January 18, 2006 You and G-Krack make a nice team. He's on one thread berating UND for not using the name and logo to attract American Indian students and you're on another thread berating UND for using it. Maybe you two could get together and compare notes sometime. well sir, UND had its chance and blew it. (75 years or so) I think it is time for the name to go. Quote
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