Athletics -> Academics

[jimdahl]

One of our common debates seems to be the issue of whether improving our athletic programs' exposure and quality can actually help the University's primary mission of academic growth. I'm pretty firmly of the opinion that it does. There are always going to be people who want to go to a school with good athletics, or who check out the school simply becase of it's athletic successes.

The GF Herald article quoted below presents an interesting story:

http://www.grandforks.com/mld/grandforkshe...ald/4379069.htm

A foreign exchange student from Croatia was living in Alabama and trying to choose a school in America. He saw UND vs BC hockey on TV and checked out UND. He was impressed by the quality/cost (let's face it -- one thing UND has going for it is North Dakota is a cheap place) and is now a student there.

Just one example, but I really think the connection is true. Don't get me wrong, more directly investing money into improving research/faculty salaries/facilities probably has a more direct effect on academic success than investing those $$ into athletics. But investing into athletics DOES benefit the academic mission.

[PCM]

A foreign exchange student from Croatia was living in Alabama and trying to choose a school in America. He saw UND vs BC hockey on TV and checked out UND. He was impressed by the quality/cost (let's face it -- one thing UND has going for it is North Dakota is a cheap place) and is now a student there.

Does he play hockey or basketball?

[SDSUFAN]

Jim:

Interesting start of a new thread. I think both can be done at the same time, investment in athletics and academics. I do not see it as a guns versus butter issue at all. In addition, I dont think that this was what you implied either in starting this thread.

I have a MBA from Keller Graduate School of Business Management, Chicago, Ill. If I had not had the GI Bill, I would not have been able to afford' Kellars tuition. Thanks to the US Taxpayers I got a MBA degree. Keller was all about academics, getting a degree, and placing graduates in strategic places around Chicago and other cities in order that the image of this school that started in 1975 would grow in the business community. Kellar has since been acquired by DeVry. The founder, Dennis Kellar is very much alive and probably has no money problems.

This school, Kellar, was not for undergraduates, but a for profit MBA diploma mill. No campus, no union building, no athletics, etc. Just a floor of classrooms on a high rise building near the Chicago-Norwestern commuter train depot in downtown Chicago. I got my degree and moved on, but I still get mail about being listed in the alum directory and taking additional courses that are now priced at $1400 per course, for one semester. All of their mail goes in the circular file. I could care less.

If Kellar had an athletic program, my feelings might be different. I have sent all my money to Brookings to support the Jacks. I have also helped on academic fund drives, but its the sports that have gotten the bulk of my support. I think athletics give the institution identy and a reason for alumni to still feel connected. Connected to SDSU I am but could care less about Kellar. If Ihad been admitted to USD, UND, Depaul and Loyola in Chicago, I would feel differently towards those schools because they do have athletic programs.

I think state supported schools do have the upper hand in attacting people such as the UND hockey player based on low cost. Would you believe I applied for admission to UND's MBA program? Had I had better undergradate grades, I might now be defending UND instead of coming on here as an attack dog. I am still interested in the Norwegian Studies at UND. UFFDA

As far as SDSU move to D1 sport, its suppose to give us a better image and attract more students etc. This all remains to be seen and I feel at this point it will help SDSU.

[jimdahl]

I think state supported schools do have the upper hand in attacting people such as the UND hockey player based on low cost.

One slight correction, if I read you right. I don't think the guy in the article was actually interested in hockey. Rather, he's just some random guy from Croatia who had never heard of UND until he happened to see a hockey game on TV that involved UND. After he discovered the existence of UND, he checked out the school, liked what he saw, and went.

Just one example of a guy who never would have heard of UND if not for its nationally televised athletics. I think that broader name recognition is a big part of what NDSU is reaching for with it's move to D-IAA. There are thousands of schools out there; if prospective students don't even know you exist, you're not going to be in their consideration set.

[Northern Iowa]

(feeling vindicated..............)

NI

[SDSUFAN]

Northern Iowa

Great Picture, please explain its significance. This one is for the museum. Did you take the picture? Or do you find this thread boring?

Just curious.

[Northern Iowa]

No, the thread is not boring, but this 1-AA thing has become way too serious. Thought we needed a little chuckle.

NI

[PCM]

Thought we needed a little chuckle.

That's good to know. I thought maybe you were showing us what you did in your spare time.

[Riverman]

Jim,Interesting very interesting. A little something to think about.

In a state of 600,000 is it wise to have splinter colleges in the state?

Devils Lake Region,Minot,Ect.

Oh yes, I know how dare I pit East vs West. Let's face it the growth of population is .5. Does that not scare anyone? Think of some of the profs. we could let go and think of the ones who stay and would make a better wage isn't that what we want?Keep the good one's ship off the leeches? Prof. Lowe pack your bags.

But to be serious how much is spent on trans,upkeep,building at said

splinter colleges?Wouldn't it be better $$$ wise to support only two?

Just some random thoughts.

[jimdahl]

I've long thought that the North Dakota University system didn't need 11 institutions. 2 is probably too few because you do want to promote community education, give additional access to non-traditional students, and so forth.

I'll tell you, though, I wouldn't want to be the guy who chose to close a couple campuses

[Riverman]

Ok how about one in every corner of the state?

[RD17]

About a year ago, I read through the future proposals for higher education in the state (it might of been on the board of higher ed. website).

One of the ideas was to have NDSU, UND, Minot St., and Bismarck St. the four year schools, keep Wahpeton, Valley City and Dickinson as specialty schools and/or junior colleges, and eliminate the rest.

Of course, a proposal like this would never fly with the lawmakers of ND. It makes too much sense to have two small, inefficient schools (VCSU and MaSU) in the same vicinity and have them serve the same basic function.

[ScottM]

I've long thought that the North Dakota University system didn't need 11 institutions. 2 is probably too few because you do want to promote community education, give additional access to non-traditional students, and so forth.

I'll tell you, though, I wouldn't want to be the guy who chose to close a couple campuses

I agree entirely Jim. It's ridiculous that a state North Dakota's size has so many four-year schools. I always thought it would be best to keep Minot, 'SU and UND, and maybe DSU, as the four-year schools and make the rest "feeders" like Minnesota does for its State University system and community colleges. However, as was pointed out, that will never fly. Meanwhile, the state will still face the fixed costs of having too many schools with overlapping missions and a shrinking student base.