Sioux Falls Argus-Leader Editorial

[Northern Iowa]

Just thinking out loud here: Check back with star2city in five or six years and see what he thinks.

NI

[star2city]

NI:

You're really showing your true colors! If you really want to attract some interest around here, throw your weight around and get UND an invitation to the Missouri Valley Conference by 2005. No one should have to endure 12 years of being a Div I independent just to join the Mid-Continent.

Things Looking Up in the Valley

[jimdahl]

The 8,500 NDSU had was something of a disappointment, but we werent playing one of the best teams in the conference.  We were playing the worst team.

NDSU's attendance hosting future D-IAA, conference-leading UNC was 6621.

[SDSUFAN]

Living in Nebraska, I see a parallel between NDSU and UNL Huskers.

This morning, having an early lunch, I overheard a young couple at the next table talking about last night's UNL loss to Texas and I believe the Huskers have lost at least three games, but its a disaster in some fan minds here. The young man was complaining about Frank Solich not knowing how to recruit. As usual wifey is more rational about the whole situation, and made a comment about Nebraska fans being too used to winning every game and that some how the odds of winning every game were not possible. She said something about expecting to lose is part of the game.

Here is where the parellel between UNL and NDSU lies. In 1961, before Bob Devaney took over as head coach, Nebraska was crappy and had tons of empty seats at Memorial stadium. When the Jacks played them in 1963, the game was a sellout, because Devany started winning his first season. The rest is history with a record number of sellouts for home games. After this season will the record continue? GOOD QUESTION.

By the way SDSU had a great team(9-1 NCC 6-0) and still got clobbered 58-7. One of your stars from the 1963 National championship team, Doug Peterson did not get back in sync until January due to a football injury in the Nebraska game. I heard Ed Maras, who was a sophmore Jack, talk about that game, and he was a scared sophomore who got more playing time than he asked for. Although greatly out manned in 1963, it was good for a pay check for SDSU.

At about the same time the Bison up North were struggling too. Bob Danielsen, a former assistant at SDSU to Ralph Ginn was a very good coach, but was working with probably a very underfunded program. The Bison went 0-10 in 1962, and after losing to Concordia, I think the president at NDSU had enough of Bob Danielsen and decided it was time to give someone the resources to put togather a winning football program. Enter the Teamakers with their contributions and that too is history.

Now in year 2002, we see both teams experiencing more losses than are normal. Its awfully tough on fans who are accustomed to winning. I guess I too would be spoiled. The SDSU basketball program can dip only so far and coaching changes are made. Jim Thorson who had a winning record and at least two 20 game seasons was history in 1993, and a lot of fans do not have the full story on that. My estimate is that his exit was probably, and I dont have an inside scoop here, due to less than favorable player relations and some scholarship players not going to class. The program appeared to be going south in decision makers eyes at SDSU, a change was made.

Coaches have a lot of responsiblity, and winning is the big factor at D2 or D1AA or D1A. When people on the streets and restaurants are doubting Frank Solich, its a problem for him and the institution. I would not want to be a coach at any level, especially if you losing game after game and you got a good idea why its happening and can not fix it by next weeks game. Often the coaches are in that fix. I dont follow the Huskers very closely but when some pundit on ESPN radio says the Husker are going to go 7-4 before the season begins, then the results so far should not be surpising. Its a shame all Husker fans do not listen to ESPN radio.

It will be interesting to see how Solich and Babich fair at the end of the seaon. The AD's will start to be part of the picture, and what they do or dont do will have a big affect on the future of these two programs.

[JBB]

That may have been the smallest football crowd in the Fabulous Fargo Dome since BISON football started. It was awfull, but trying to draw a parallel with our D1AA future is typical sour grapes from a fan licking ugly wounds of his own.

The reason BISON fans are staying away is because the BISON are not a very good football team. There is no expectation they can win. There was less than 2.500 in there when the score went to 23-7 with about 5 min left.

When the BISON have a competitive team the fans will come. When they have the worst team since 1962 the fans will stay away. The coaching decision will be made this winter when the Team Makers have a better handle on renewals. NDSU lost at least $60,000 in ticket revenues yesterday and that may be what finally gets the ADs eyes open about this situtation.

[SDSUFAN]

JBB: (John)

I wasnt trying to forcaste NDSU fortunes at D1AA. I was commenting on programs in general that have long traditions of winning and thats more of a compliment than criticism. I think the Bison will do real well at D1AA

It just ironic that the Bison and the Huskers are down the same season after having a sustained rise and continued rise for decades. Because of the huge statewide following by the Huskers, three loses are unacceptable, and yet I think Nebraska still has a good football team. They have struggled with Troy State and McNeese in getting wins, and that is scarey for Husker fans.

Next season, watch out for the Bison, some of these young Bison kids you are playing now and are getting banged around by juniors and seniors, will be some tough hombres next year. Wait and see

I believe what you say about the ticket revenue and that has to be a big concern for all in Bisonland. It becomes harder and harder for keeping Babich under those circumstance.

Clair

[JBB]

Actually SDSU fan I thought your comments were right on. It was the previous post I was refering too, by jmdahl. Why he would bother with that type of speculation is beyond me?

[SDSUFAN]

JBB:

If I have not learned anything else on this board, I have come to respect the business know how of Ralph Englestad. The legislators may have been smart in passing the law protecting the state of North Dakota in becoming liable for operation deficits of an athletic faculity.

That being said, UND may as Jim Dahl as pointed on another thread, UND may have a good venue in hockey. Some one else pointed out that there were margins from the Ice Arena to fund women's hockey at UND.

One of the big stinks that SDSU fans have raised since 1979, when the Dakota Dome came on line was the maintence cost that the state of South Dakota would bear. The state also had to help USD pay for the new roof, that has been rumored to leaked this fall. The Volente, student paper mentioned this rumor and the denial by the USD athletic department. Higgins and his lackey say they know of no leaks in the new roof. The rumor may have started in Brookings.

I can not help but think that the high cost of maintenence holds true with REA in that you need a ton of janitors to keep the place clean and titty day in and day out. Then there are temperature controls that must be put in place on a daily basis. Electricty and heating fuels are not free so there are more operational costs. This is why concerts and events I would assume are needed to keep the place cash flowing. With the Alerus and the Fargodome also competing for the same events, then I think there is competition for events. Again some one is going to lose out. The three ring circus comes once a year and can not be in three places at the same time. I dont have any idea what UND's arrangement is with City Of GF for the ALerus, or with REA on the revenue that should flow to the atletic department. If nothing is published to give an idea how it works, then my guess is that its either break even or losing money. Time will tell. Both GF facilites have been on line for only a year. Maybe after 5 years of operations, the cost patterns will be more clear. I would think Roger Thomas needs to have a good negiatator to save his athletic department from getting sucked into bad deals. The law passed by the legislature doesnt protect the athletic department from bad contracts that have been excuted by the Pres and AD. You would hope they made good deals for their department.

[jimdahl]

SDSUFAN--

I agree, it's all about money.

One nice thing about REA is that it's nearly guaranteed by Engelstad not to cost the school money. The last thing he wanted to do is put a burden on the school, so as long as he's able I believe he'll do whatever it takes to make sure that the facility benefits the school rather than hurts it.

The Alerus probably never would have been built had flood expenses been predictable or had it been known REA would be built. However, the situation today is what it is, no changing the past. I'd be surprised if the city used financial troubles at the Alerus Center as an excuse to try to extort additional rent from UND, but you never know.

I think having two such excellent facilities has definitely been a revenue boon for UND athletics so far, as measured at the gate.

[Riverman]

Add to the fact that the Al added that new B-ball floor because they(GF) said it was a steal.

Jim,Is that correct UMinn made 4.7 million from hockey?

That is close to funding a D1aa budget.

REA 11,400 seats

Mary-under 10,000 seats hmmm

Did you want to tell Roger or should I?