Mr. Blanston Posted August 3, 2004 Share Posted August 3, 2004 I respectfully disagree. Dean knows a lot about hockey, but has often played dump-and-chase despite having good skating teams, and has not done well with very good talent and big numbers. He missed the state tournament for at least 2 years before last year. However, even if I agreed that he's a good coach, the point is that he better win with the talent he has coming in. The Flyers from the incoming Juniors down to squirts are very talented. The seasons in which Wilson has played dump-and-chase hockey were the seasons in which the talent level of his teams have been sub par. He does what is necessary to win. Other than last year, when has he had good talent and big numbers? Yeah, the Askew era was filled with talent, but it produced a championship as well. Even with those untalented dump-and-chase years, I'd still take his style of play over Shanley's "flip the puck up to neutral ice and hope our 25-year-old Graalum can chase it down" approach. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1siouxfan22 Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 There is no way Minots best chance was to win in 03, west fargo beat them and central had an all star team. And i dont get the 25 yr old graalum thing? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 There is no way Minots best chance was to win in 03, west fargo beat them and central had an all star team. And i dont get the 25 yr old graalum thing? Neither do I. I've only heard good things about Graalum... but then again, his OLDER sister attends UND. I was in a few courses with her. A very nice girl, as I am sure her brother is as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 The seasons in which Wilson has played dump-and-chase hockey were the seasons in which the talent level of his teams have been sub par. He does what is necessary to win. Other than last year, when has he had good talent and big numbers? Yeah, the Askew era was filled with talent, but it produced a championship as well. Even with those untalented dump-and-chase years, I'd still take his style of play over Shanley's "flip the puck up to neutral ice and hope our 25-year-old Graalum can chase it down" approach. That is really mature to take shots at a 18 or 19 year old kid. It must make you feel real good about yourself. The only thing that I can gather is that you are a disgruntled South or Flyers fan or player. Kyle Graalum is a great kid, and was a Flyer all the way up through Bantams. He was an A player every year, and was more talented than any of the Flyers that he played with, which is evident by the fact that he is playing on and none of the recent South grads are. Do you want to compare Burggraf's to Wilson? From last year's Shanley team, 2 and probably 3 will play junior hockey: Kyle Graalum for Fargo-Moorhead, Pete Fylling for Bismarck and Elliot Hitt, probably for Fargo. Please also consider that Frank Burggraf had in his "dirty dozen" skating group since very young---Dan Irmen, Jason Blake, Brent Vesta, the Klava brothers, etc. He also attracts pros from around the country. Last year, the NY Islanders sent several young players, including one of the top contenders for last year's rookie of the year; the Chicago Blackhawks sent 2 former No. 1 draft choices from Russia; and every year, you will find Jason Blake, Ryan Kraft, Ryan Bayda and a host of other pro players at his fall camp. Can Wilson make the same claim?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
schmidtdoggydog Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 I've only heard good things about Graalum... but then again, his OLDER sister attends UND. I was in a few courses with her. A very nice girl, as I am sure her brother is as well. You're sure her brother is a very nice girl? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mickleson Posted August 4, 2004 Author Share Posted August 4, 2004 That is really mature to take shots at a 18 or 19 year old kid. It must make you feel real good about yourself. The only thing that I can gather is that you are a disgruntled South or Flyers fan or player. Kyle Graalum is a great kid, and was a Flyer all the way up through Bantams. He was an A player every year, and was more talented than any of the Flyers that he played with, which is evident by the fact that he is playing on and none of the recent South grads are. Do you want to compare Burggraf's to Wilson? From last year's Shanley team, 2 and probably 3 will play junior hockey: Kyle Graalum for Fargo-Moorhead, Pete Fylling for Bismarck and Elliot Hitt, probably for Fargo. Please also consider that Frank Burggraf had in his "dirty dozen" skating group since very young---Dan Irmen, Jason Blake, Brent Vesta, the Klava brothers, etc. He also attracts pros from around the country. Last year, the NY Islanders sent several young players, including one of the top contenders for last year's rookie of the year; the Chicago Blackhawks sent 2 former No. 1 draft choices from Russia; and every year, you will find Jason Blake, Ryan Kraft, Ryan Bayda and a host of other pro players at his fall camp. Can Wilson make the same claim?? You have a very stong point here when you say Shanley is going to have three players move on and South none. But you are wrong. Luke Brehmer, the best defencemen in the state last year, will play for a very talented St. Thomas team next year. This is probably Shanley's only year for a long, long time that they will produce some players to move on, and south is just about to send a lot of talent out to the next level. So your argument will not be credible in the next 1-5 years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 You have a very stong point here when you say Shanley is going to have three players move on and South none. But you are wrong. Luke Brehmer, the best defencemen in the state last year, will play for a very talented St. Thomas team next year. This is probably Shanley's only year for a long, long time that they will produce some players to move on, and south is just about to send a lot of talent out to the next level. So your argument will not be credible in the next 1-5 years. You further strengthened my point. Luke Brehmer has also been in Burggraf camps since he was very young, including all throughout high school. Ask Luke if Burgraff helped his skating skills and development as a hockey player. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
roper1313 Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 You further strengthened my point. Luke Brehmer has also been in Burggraf camps since he was very young, including all throughout high school. Ask Luke if Burgraff helped his skating skills and development as a hockey player. I just wanted to jump in this discussion. I don't think that anyone would argue that the Burgraff's are among the country's best power-skaitng instructors. In my opinion their power skating clinics/camps are a must for any youth hockey player. On the other hand, are they good hockey coaches?? As far as I know, and if I'm wrong I apologize, they do not have any coaching experience. This arguement will not be decided until the Burgraff's, and Shanley, have competed on there own for a few more years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1siouxfan22 Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 Neither do I. I've only heard good things about Graalum... but then again, his OLDER sister attends UND. I was in a few courses with her. A very nice girl, as I am sure her brother is as well. Shes not bad looking either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr. Blanston Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 That is really mature to take shots at a 18 or 19 year old kid. It must make you feel real good about yourself. The only thing that I can gather is that you are a disgruntled South or Flyers fan or player. Kyle Graalum is a great kid, and was a Flyer all the way up through Bantams. He was an A player every year, and was more talented than any of the Flyers that he played with, which is evident by the fact that he is playing on and none of the recent South grads are. Do you want to compare Burggraf's to Wilson? From last year's Shanley team, 2 and probably 3 will play junior hockey: Kyle Graalum for Fargo-Moorhead, Pete Fylling for Bismarck and Elliot Hitt, probably for Fargo. Please also consider that Frank Burggraf had in his "dirty dozen" skating group since very young---Dan Irmen, Jason Blake, Brent Vesta, the Klava brothers, etc. He also attracts pros from around the country. Last year, the NY Islanders sent several young players, including one of the top contenders for last year's rookie of the year; the Chicago Blackhawks sent 2 former No. 1 draft choices from Russia; and every year, you will find Jason Blake, Ryan Kraft, Ryan Bayda and a host of other pro players at his fall camp. Can Wilson make the same claim?? First of all, you're not hearing me, pal. I'm certainly not denying the fact that the camps the Burggrafs run are excellent for improving skating skills. I've heard from numerous sources that they are great. However, a coaches skills are determined by how well his team does for it's talent level. According to your recent claims, Shanley must have been loaded with even more talent than South because of those three players. Thus the Burggrafs must be terrible coaches for not even making it to the State Tournament. And yes, I do want to compare the Burggrafs to Wilson. Wilson has two rings, will the Burggrafs ever be able to make that claim?(highly doubtful) Second, I apologize for the shot against Graalum, but it's important to note that he must have been one of the oldest players in the state. When I saw him play, he was 19 and was playing against some players who were 15 and 16. p.s. I'm not a Flyer or a disgruntled South player. I do attend Fargo South and will be a senior next year. I've never played hockey but my brother played for Wilson several years ago. I'm just happy to be going back to the best school in the the state next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 First of all, you're not hearing me, pal. I'm certainly not denying the fact that the camps the Burggrafs run are excellent for improving skating skills. I've heard from numerous sources that they are great. However, a coaches skills are determined by how well his team does for it's talent level. According to your recent claims, Shanley must have been loaded with even more talent than South because of those three players. Thus the Burggrafs must be terrible coaches for not even making it to the State Tournament. And yes, I do want to compare the Burggrafs to Wilson. Wilson has two rings, will the Burggrafs ever be able to make that claim?(highly doubtful) Second, I apologize for the shot against Graalum, but it's important to note that he must have been one of the oldest players in the state. When I saw him play, he was 19 and was playing against some players who were 15 and 16. p.s. I'm not a Flyer or a disgruntled South player. I do attend Fargo South and will be a senior next year. I've never played hockey but my brother played for Wilson several years ago. I'm just happy to be going back to the best school in the the state next year. You are obviously not hearing me. My initial premise was, and still is, that South is loaded with talent. They had great talent last year, and they should be even better this year and next year. In my opinion, South is much deeper and more talented than Red River, probably the next most talented team. Central has Marto, but not much else. Grafton has the Campbell cousins, but not much else. My point is that if Wilson does not win with this group, there is something wrong. I know Dean well, I like him and respect him, and I think that he is a good coach. However, his teams have underachieved. He has to take some of the blame because of the style of play that he has used in the past. He even played dump-and-chase when he had Askew and Hunter, one of the most talented groups ever to come out of Fargo. Last year, he did get away from that some, which is probably a reflection of the talent. South and Shanley are not even comparable. Shanley only had a few kids that would have even skated varsity for South last year. It will be worse this year because the vast majority of the Flyer and Raider kids are going to South and North. Yet, despite that lack of talent, Shanley almost beat South last year in Regionals despite several very questionable calls. Frank Burggraf has coached teams (Puckhogs) that did very well in Minnesota tournaments. Ask some of his former players like Tyler McGurra (former South player) and Tanner Anderson (former Flyer and West Fargo player) what they think of Frank's coaching. Tyler is at the Burggraf camp now getting ready for Harvard next year. Additionally, Tim Graveline was a former Flyer coach of Askew, Hunter etc. that lost one game as Flyer squirts. I'm sure you were not aware of that. Tim Graveline and Frank Burggraf are great coaches and know a lot more about hockey than most around here. Dean played football at UND, not hockey. Frank and his brother played for UND and won 2 national championships. His mom, Nancy, developed the skating program that is still used at UND. Ask Dean Blais if they know what they are doing. Tim played college hockey for NDSU and his brother played for Wisconsin. With all due respect, if you give them the talent that is at South, they would win easily. If you want to praise Dean Wilson, fine. I have no problem with that. However, do not criticize Frank and Tim when you know nothing about them and your opinions and judgment are clouded by the fact that you bleed Fargo South colors and you have no objectivity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack Mickleson Posted August 4, 2004 Author Share Posted August 4, 2004 You are obviously not hearing me. My initial premise was, and still is, that South is loaded with talent. They had great talent last year, and they should be even better this year and next year. In my opinion, South is much deeper and more talented than Red River, probably the next most talented team. Central has Marto, but not much else. Grafton has the Campbell cousins, but not much else. My point is that if Wilson does not win with this group, there is something wrong. I know Dean well, I like him and respect him, and I think that he is a good coach. However, his teams have underachieved. He has to take some of the blame because of the style of play that he has used in the past. He even played dump-and-chase when he had Askew and Hunter, one of the most talented groups ever to come out of Fargo. Last year, he did get away from that some, which is probably a reflection of the talent. South and Shanley are not even comparable. Shanley only had a few kids that would have even skated varsity for South last year. It will be worse this year because the vast majority of the Flyer and Raider kids are going to South and North. Yet, despite that lack of talent, Shanley almost beat South last year in Regionals despite several very questionable calls. Frank Burggraf has coached teams (Puckhogs) that did very well in Minnesota tournaments. Ask some of his former players like Tyler McGurra (former South player) and Tanner Anderson (former Flyer and West Fargo player) what they think of Frank's coaching. Tyler is at the Burggraf camp now getting ready for Harvard next year. Additionally, Tim Graveline was a former Flyer coach of Askew, Hunter etc. that lost one game as Flyer squirts. I'm sure you were not aware of that. Tim Graveline and Frank Burggraf are great coaches and know a lot more about hockey than most around here. Dean played football at UND, not hockey. Frank and his brother played for UND and won 2 national championships. His mom, Nancy, developed the skating program that is still used at UND. Ask Dean Blais if they know what they are doing. Tim played college hockey for NDSU and his brother played for Wisconsin. With all due respect, if you give them the talent that is at South, they would win easily. If you want to praise Dean Wilson, fine. I have no problem with that. However, do not criticize Frank and Tim when you know nothing about them and your opinions and judgment are clouded by the fact that you bleed Fargo South colors and you have no objectivity. Good argument. But your statement had one weak point. When you say there were questionable calls last year against south at EDC you are wrong. The call against Fylling was the right call. If you read the 2004 rules book you would understand that the goalie cannot be touched inside of his protected area. Earlier when you named off all the players that the Burgraffs have coached, remember that Wilson did coach the Chicago Showcase who only lost to Minnesota by one. Now that is good coaching. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Griggs Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 You are obviously not hearing me. My initial premise was, and still is, that South is loaded with talent. They had great talent last year, and they should be even better this year and next year. In my opinion, South is much deeper and more talented than Red River, probably the next most talented team. Central has Marto, but not much else. Grafton has the Campbell cousins, but not much else. My point is that if Wilson does not win with this group, there is something wrong. I know Dean well, I like him and respect him, and I think that he is a good coach. However, his teams have underachieved. He has to take some of the blame because of the style of play that he has used in the past. He even played dump-and-chase when he had Askew and Hunter, one of the most talented groups ever to come out of Fargo. Last year, he did get away from that some, which is probably a reflection of the talent. South and Shanley are not even comparable. Shanley only had a few kids that would have even skated varsity for South last year. It will be worse this year because the vast majority of the Flyer and Raider kids are going to South and North. Yet, despite that lack of talent, Shanley almost beat South last year in Regionals despite several very questionable calls. Frank Burggraf has coached teams (Puckhogs) that did very well in Minnesota tournaments. Ask some of his former players like Tyler McGurra (former South player) and Tanner Anderson (former Flyer and West Fargo player) what they think of Frank's coaching. Tyler is at the Burggraf camp now getting ready for Harvard next year. Additionally, Tim Graveline was a former Flyer coach of Askew, Hunter etc. that lost one game as Flyer squirts. I'm sure you were not aware of that. Tim Graveline and Frank Burggraf are great coaches and know a lot more about hockey than most around here. Dean played football at UND, not hockey. Frank and his brother played for UND and won 2 national championships. His mom, Nancy, developed the skating program that is still used at UND. Ask Dean Blais if they know what they are doing. Tim played college hockey for NDSU and his brother played for Wisconsin. With all due respect, if you give them the talent that is at South, they would win easily. If you want to praise Dean Wilson, fine. I have no problem with that. However, do not criticize Frank and Tim when you know nothing about them and your opinions and judgment are clouded by the fact that you bleed Fargo South colors and you have no objectivity. I had to get into this discussion. I've had the honor to watch the metro teams the last few years. Burgraffs have always had good skating players, that's where it ends. Mentally they just aren't the best. Here on the North side we focus more on the mental aspect of hockey. I coach bantams and i love it. It's not worth winning if your can't win big. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central for Life Posted August 4, 2004 Share Posted August 4, 2004 I had to get into this discussion. I've had the honor to watch the metro teams the last few years. Burgraffs have always had good skating players, that's where it ends. Mentally they just aren't the best. Here on the North side we focus more on the mental aspect of hockey. I coach bantams and i love it. It's not worth winning if your can't win big. I go to Grand Forks Central, and was at the State Championship game aganist South and I was just wondering what you guys thought about the call with around 3 min remaining in the game. I think it was the right call but I would've liked to see the refs stay out of it and let the players determine the outcome of the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest T_Capouch Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 You further strengthened my point. Luke Brehmer has also been in Burggraf camps since he was very young, including all throughout high school. Ask Luke if Burgraff helped his skating skills and development as a hockey player. Hello, Thanks to Ryan I finally found this site were I can voice my opinion. I would have to say this is how the teams will pan out across the State. I would have to say that with Trevor Anderson playing for west fargo next year shanley could be hurting. I think it could make for an interesting play-in game between Whapeton and Shanley. 1.Red River or South 2.Red River or South 3.North 4. Bismarck High 5. West Fargo 6. Minot 7.Bismarck Century 8. Williston East Region 1. Red River or South 2. Red River or South 3.North 4. West Fargo 5. GPR 6.GFC 7. Jamestown 8. Shanley or Whapeton 9.Shanley or Whapeton Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FrozenTundra Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 First of all, you're not hearing me, pal. I'm certainly not denying the fact that the camps the Burggrafs run are excellent for improving skating skills. I've heard from numerous sources that they are great. However, a coaches skills are determined by how well his team does for it's talent level. According to your recent claims, Shanley must have been loaded with even more talent than South because of those three players. Thus the Burggrafs must be terrible coaches for not even making it to the State Tournament. And yes, I do want to compare the Burggrafs to Wilson. Wilson has two rings, will the Burggrafs ever be able to make that claim?(highly doubtful) Second, I apologize for the shot against Graalum, but it's important to note that he must have been one of the oldest players in the state. When I saw him play, he was 19 and was playing against some players who were 15 and 16. p.s. I'm not a Flyer or a disgruntled South player. I do attend Fargo South and will be a senior next year. I've never played hockey but my brother played for Wilson several years ago. I'm just happy to be going back to the best school in the the state next year. Maybe best school in the state that isn't located in Grand Forks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 There is no way Minots best chance was to win in 03, west fargo beat them and central had an all star team. And i dont get the 25 yr old graalum thing? That was definately Minot's best chance to win a state title in recent years. They won the West Region tournament championship game that season in Bimarck over a good century team (who lost to Grafton 3-2 at state that season in a GREAT GAME). Minot losing to West Fargo was a fluke. Both of West Fargo's goals were scored from behind Minot's goal line, and their goalie played out of his mind. I'm not saying Minot would have won the tourny, but that was one of their best teams in a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1siouxfan22 Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 That was West Fargo's best team ever thought to look at it like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wilbur Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 That was West Fargo's best team ever thought to look at it like that. That was a pretty good West Fargo squad, and I'll give them credit for staying in that game long enough for a good bounce, and winning it in OT on a similar bounce. DOH!!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#1siouxfan22 Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Hard work will get you those lucky goals. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skateshattrick Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 Hello, Thanks to Ryan I finally found this site were I can voice my opinion. I would have to say this is how the teams will pan out across the State. I would have to say that with Trevor Anderson playing for west fargo next year shanley could be hurting. I think it could make for an interesting play-in game between Whapeton and Shanley. 1.Red River or South 2.Red River or South 3.North 4. Bismarck High 5. West Fargo 6. Minot 7.Bismarck Century 8. Williston East Region 1. Red River or South 2. Red River or South 3.North 4. West Fargo 5. GPR 6.GFC 7. Jamestown 8. Shanley or Whapeton 9.Shanley or Whapeton I would say that you are just a touch biased since you are a West Fargo coach. West Fargo has a snowball's chance in hell of finishing ahead of Grafton and GF Central. West Fargo will be battling Shanley, Jamestown and Wahpeton for the lower half. Ryan Griggs really should not talk about the "mental strength" of the north side since every North end A team was horrible last year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
redwing77 Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 You're sure her brother is a very nice girl? How very "lawyerly" of you to take my words so literally I am sure he is a nice person. I am curious if he will play DI hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Central for Life Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 I am curious if he will play DI hockey. He has a snowball's chance in hell of playing D1 hockey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R_Griggs Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 I would say that you are just a touch biased since you are a West Fargo coach. West Fargo has a snowball's chance in hell of finishing ahead of Grafton and GF Central. West Fargo will be battling Shanley, Jamestown and Wahpeton for the lower half. Ryan Griggs really should not talk about the "mental strength" of the north side since every North end A team was horrible last year. skateshattrick, you just showed us you have no class. I know i'm not the best coach in the state but i am one of the best, also north has always had a great track record of having nice student athletes. I would have to agree with Capouch on how the teams will end up. Shanley could have a tough time beating whapeton though. If anybody knows the probable starters for shanley please post them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy the Kid Posted August 5, 2004 Share Posted August 5, 2004 One of the best coaches in the State?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts