For the unintiated

[wcbsas]

Now that UND and USD have finished their last year in D2 what is the process and steps for D1 transition as it pertains to Bball?

I believe it is a 7-year transition correct? I also believe this past year counts as year 1, correct?

How will it affect their schedule the next season?

[star2city]

Now that UND and USD have finished their last year in D2 what is the process and steps for D1 transition as it pertains to Bball?

I believe it is a 7-year transition correct? I also believe this past year counts as year 1, correct?

How will it affect their schedule the next season?

The transition is technically 13 years:

The first year which will be completed this summer, is the exploratory year, when UND can compete for the D2 titles. Theoretically, a school can decide not to continue with the transition during this first year, but with the NCC no longer existing next year, that is not an option.

During year two, UND is in limbo between DI and DII. For basketball to count against other DI's RPIs, it needs to play a DI schedule (lesss than 4 non-DI games, which will be difficult). DI conference membership is possible during year two, but it's already apparent that it won't be in the offing at this late date.

For years three to five, UND must play an official DI schedule (3 or less games against non DI opponents). Although UND would be included with RPI calculations, UND would not be eligible for either the NCAA tournament or men's NIT, but they would be eligible for the women's NIT or the men's CBI. SDSU and NDSU will complete this segment of their reclassification this summer.

At year six, UND would be eligible for all post-season NCAA-sponsored post-season tournaments, BUT in men's basketball, ONLY IF ITS IN AN AUTOBID conference. At that point, UND would become an "active" member of DI, but not a core member (which counts toward conference requirements for an autobid). Northern Colorado and UC-Davis became active DI members this fall and were eligible in all sports (Even men's basketball because of their Big Sky and Big West affilitions). A school like Longwood, which also is in year six, was not eligible for men's basketball post-season because of no conference affiliation, and won't be until year 13 unless a conference takes them in. However, all its other sports are post-season eligible (including women's basketball) even as an independent, although the lack of an autobid makes it very difficult in most sports.

At year thirteen, UND would be a core DI member, allowing it to count toward a conference's men's basketball autobid requirements.

The transition time was only three years in the 1990's, but the existing DI schools created the "core" membership criteria to make it nearly impossible for DII conferences to move up "en masse" and create their own autobid (and take away at-large bid from more powerful conferences). Talk of the NCC moving up as a whole five years ago was a farce, as the most attractive schools would have been picked off one-by-one over the years by other conferences. Maintaining seven teams together, with six core teams together for 13 years (five years for core status, eight years for a new conference), would have been virtually impossible.

That's enough rambling of mine.

[Hammersmith]

Two small corrections to Star's post. From year 3 onward, 4 non-DI basketball games are allowed, not 3. Also, any team that's an active member of DI is also completely eligible for the NCAA MBB tournement, regardless if they are in a conference or their core institution status. Of course, an independant could never put together a schedule tough enough for an at-large bid, much less win it, so the point is moot.

Here's UND's timeline:

2007-08 Exploratory Year

2008-09 1/2 DI, 1/2 DII

2009-10 DI Counter to DI teams

2012-13 DI active member(eligible for NCAA postseason)

2015-16 5 years to core institution

2020-21 DI core institution

[bincitysioux]

Hammersmith, I think I asked you to clarify this before, but I can't remember. Would UND and USD be eligible for the WNIT in 2008-09? Not that they could put together a schedule good enough and have enough success in their first season, but could they even be eligible next season?

[Hammersmith]

Hammersmith, I think I asked you to clarify this before, but I can't remember. Would UND and USD be eligible for the WNIT in 2008-09? Not that they could put together a schedule good enough and have enough success in their first season, but could they even be eligible next season?

I can't be absolutely certain, but if UND was able to put together a full DI schedule, I think you would be eligible in 2008-09. According to the WNIT website, the 17 at-large teams are chosen by using the Dolphin, Greenfield, Massey, Moore, RPI ratings, Sagarin, and Wobus rating systems. Most of those will only include a team if they have enough DI opponents. I'm just guessing, though.

[wcbsas]

Thank you for the info ... good info ... now ... what is UND's schedule going to look like for next year?

From your comments it appears that no D1 program really wants to play UND (especially at UND) but no D2 school is really going to want to play UND either.

[bincitysioux]

... what is UND's schedule going to look like for next year?

It won't be real pretty. There will be home and away games against South Dakota, Seattle, and Southern Illinois-Edwardsville. They are playing in tournaments at Iowa St., and at Drake.

They are trying to get games with several Horizon and Summit schools.

I'd look for probably all of the DAC schools (at least the North Dakota ones) to be on the home schedule. Probably Crookston and Mary, too.

South Dakota will definately be the highlight of the home schedule.

I wonder if Concordia may come up to GF for a game next year?

[star2city]

Two small corrections to Star's post. From year 3 onward, 4 non-DI basketball games are allowed, not 3.

]You're correct on that. That's how the Atlantic Sun was able to add two schools immediately after exploratory years. Every conference school played four games against first-year DI's non-counters.

Also, any team that's an active member of DI is also completely eligible for the NCAA MBB tournement, regardless if they are in a conference or their core institution status. Of course, an independant could never put together a schedule tough enough for an at-large bid, much less win it, so the point is moot.

Again, you're correct. I misinterpreted the change in 2003, when the Big West petitioned the NCAA to allow UC-Davis to be immediately capable of gaining an Autobid once it became a conference member and a DI active member. Previously, it would have had to wait the 5 years for being an active member, and then eight years for core membership and men's basketball eligibility. Any school once reaching DI active status is eligible only for at-large bid (but, as you stated it really is impossible for an independent.)

[Hammersmith]

Again, you're correct. I misinterpreted the change in 2003, when the Big West petitioned the NCAA to allow UC-Davis to be immediately capable of gaining an Autobid once it became a conference member and a DI active member. Previously, it would have had to wait the 5 years for being an active member, and then eight years for core membership and men's basketball eligibility. Any school once reaching DI active status is eligible only for at-large bid (but, as you stated it really is impossible for an independent.)

Once a school is an active member, they're eligible for all the tourneys through either auto- or at-large bids. Whether a school is a core institution or not has no bearing on eligibility. I don't know the petition of which you speak, but I bet it was one of two things. Either the Big West was low on numbers and wanted UC Davis counted as a core institution to protect the BWC's autobid(doubtful, since I think they've had plently of members for many years), or the Big West wanted UC Davis to play in the conference tourney, which would've been bad if they'd won and were not eligible to receive the BWC autobid. I think the latter scenario is far more likely. It's the same reason that NDSU and SDSU were not allowed to play in the Summit BB tourneys this year, even though the Bison men were ranked 4th and the Jack and Bison women were ranked 1-2. Next year, however, the Bison and the Jacks will compete in the tourney and vie for the autobid. While conferences can choose to hand out their autobid however they like, all use the conference tourney so it will be broadcast on TV and generate revenue. Having a non-eligible team win the tourney would screw everything up.

The only place that the term 'core institution' shows up anywhere in the NCAA DI manual, is in the section describing how a conference qualifies for autobids. The term, or status, has no bearing on the individual school, only the conference.

FYI, a MBB autobid requires 7 core inst., 6 of which must've played together for the previous 5 years(this is the one we all know). A multisport conference must have 6 core inst., all of which must've played together for the previous 2 years. A single-sport conference(of a sport played by less than 50% of DI schools), needs 6 active members(not core) who have played together for the previous 2 years. Since football is divided up into FBS and FCS, the GWFC falls under the single-sport rule. On the other hand, the United Soccer Conference would fall under the multisport rule, since most schools sponsor women's soccer.

[star2city]

Once a school is an active member, they're eligible for all the tourneys through either auto- or at-large bids. Whether a school is a core institution or not has no bearing on eligibility. I don't know the petition of which you speak, but I bet it was one of two things. Either the Big West was low on numbers and wanted UC Davis counted as a core institution to protect the BWC's autobid(doubtful, since I think they've had plently of members for many years), or the Big West wanted UC Davis to play in the conference tourney, which would've been bad if they'd won and were not eligible to receive the BWC autobid. I think the latter scenario is far more likely. It's the same reason that NDSU and SDSU were not allowed to play in the Summit BB tourneys this year, even though the Bison men were ranked 4th and the Jack and Bison women were ranked 1-2. Next year, however, the Bison and the Jacks will compete in the tourney and vie for the autobid. While conferences can choose to hand out their autobid however they like, all use the conference tourney so it will be broadcast on TV and generate revenue. Having a non-eligible team win the tourney would screw everything up.

.

Select this DI Proposal that was accepted: 2003-13 CHAMPIONSHIPS -- AUTOMATIC QUALIFICATION

If this proposal would not have been accepted, NDSU and SDSU would have not been eligible for a men's BB autobid, only an at-large bid, until they reached core membership status even if they were in the Summit.

. Administrative: Amend 31.3.4.3, page 423, as follows:

"31.3.4.3 Additional Requirements, Men's Basketball. The member conference must include seven core institutions. For the purposes of this legislation, core refers to an institution that has been an active member of Division I the eight preceding years. Further, the continuity-of-membership requirement shall be met only if a minimum of six core institutions have conducted conference competition together in Division I the preceding five years in men's basketball. There shall be no exception to the five-year waiting period. Further, any new member added to a conference that is satisfying the continuity of membership requirements shall not represent the conference as the automatic qualifier until the institution satisfies the requirement for a core member (i.e., active member of Division I for eight years.) Any new member added to a member conference that satisfies these requirements shall be immediately eligible to represent the conference as the automatic qualifier."

[Hammersmith]

I see. I wasn't aware of exactly how that rule changed and that it only applied to the autobid. I remebered that the wait for the MBB tourney was 13 years back when NDSU began its move, but I thought that applied to any bid. Apparently, NDSU would've been eligible for an at-large bid, but not the auto-. Weird. Anyway, the rule was changed and today you're eligible for either type of bid as soon as you become an active member(2012-13 in your case).

(I don't mean to get real nitpicky here, but in dealing with NCAA rules, word choices become important. Part of my confusion came from you using the term 'petition' in your earlier post. In NCAA-speak, a proposal refers to a rule change, while a petition refers to a one-time exemption to a rule. The Big West/UC Davis case was not a petition, but a proposal; as you correctly stated in your followup post.)

Getting back to UND's schedule next year, looking at NDSU's and SDSU's 2004-05 schedules might give some hints. Both schedules featured no DI home games and many DII/NAIA games.

NDSU (DI: 0 Home/8 Away; DII: 7/5; NAIA: 4/0; DIII: 1/0)

@Kansas State(DI)

@Denver(DI)

@Northern State(DII)

@Southwest Minnesota State(DII)

@Northern State(DII)

Jamestown(NAIA)

Minnesota State Mankato(DII)

Minnesota-Duluth(DII)

@Eastern Michigan(DI)

@Oakland (Mich.)(DI)

@Wisconsin-Green Bay(DI)

@Rider(DI)

@Manhattan(DI)

Concordia-Moorhead(DIII)

@UMKC(DI)

@South Dakota State(DII)

Dakota Wesleyan(NAIA)

Southwest Minnesota State(DII)

@Minnesota-Crookston(DII)

Northern State(DII)

Minnesota-Crookston(DII)

Si Tanka-Huron(NAIA)

Mayville State(NAIA)

Upper Iowa(DII)

South Dakota State(DII)

SDSU (DI:0/13; DII: 7/1; NAIA: 3/0; DIII: 1/0)

@ Butler(DI)

@ Manhattan(DI)

Mayville State(NAIA)

@ Illinois-Chicago(DI)

@ Wisconsin-Milwaukee(DI)

@ Southeast Missouri(DI)

@ Marquette(DI)

@ Denver(DI)

Michigan Tech(DII)

@ Tennessee State(DI)

Wayne State, NE(DII)

Wayne State, MI(DII)

@ San Diego State(DI)

Buena Vista(DIII)

North Dakota State(DII)

@ Missouri-Kansas City(DI)

Morningside(NAIA)

Bellevue(NAIA)

@ Arkansas State(DI)

Winona State(DII)

Upper Iowa(DII)

Southwest Minnesota(DII)

@ Colorado(DI)

@ Central Florida(DI)

@North Dakota State(DII)

[wcbsas]

So using some of the info you posted:

We're looking at a '08-'09 schedule of:

D1 - Home - 3 games:

South Dakota

SI-Edwardsville

Seattle

D1 - Away - 7 games:

South Dakota

SI-Edwardsville

Seattle

Iowa State Tournament (2)

Drake Tournament (2)

Likely games:

Mary (D2)

Concordia-Moorhead (D3)

Jamestown (NAIA)

Minnesota-Crookston (D2)

Mayville State (NAIA)

Dakota Wesleyan (NAIA)

Other possibilities:

Northern State

SW Minnesota

NDSU

SDSU

[bincitysioux]

A strong finish

Without a conference, UND

[bincitysioux]

I heard NDSU coach Saul Phillips mention on the Dan Hammer show today that the Bison will be playing in a tourney at Drake next season. In January, Coach Jones was on Hammers show and said that UND will be playing in a tournament at Drake next year. Drake normally hosts two tournaments in November and/or December, so I don't know if they'll participate in the same one or not. Just something to ponder.