bale31
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Posts posted by bale31
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So what? The WCHA has been worse as far as I am concerned. Especially with the clowns they have reffing this league. The Big Ten isn't exactly a league known for greatness either. How many academic scandals have there been over the years? My fingers are pointing directly at OSU and Minnesota… The PSU mess doesn’t look real good either, if I had been on the executive council at the NCAA, I would have pushed for the PSU football team’s death penalty for a couple of years.
The fact remains, if people thought that college hockey was going to remain stagnant, their crazy.
Man, a little testy, are we? Just making an observation. For a league that hasn't even started play yet, there have been a lot of oops moments. That's all. I'm not comparing it to anything at all.
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Looks good.
Major oops on the part of the Target Center for leaking the logo and tournament information before tomorrow's news conference.
Let's be honest....there have been a lot of oopses for the PR team of the NCHC and their partners so far.
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With the departure of Buckie and Goldie courtesy Jim Delany and the BTN, the balance of power had shifted in the WCHA. With UM and UW the teams looking to stay at max scholarships had the majority voting bloc; without them the schools that would favor scaling back expenditures would be in the majority.
For schools that depend on hockey to be a fiscal driver, not being top tier nationally (due to scaled back spending, especially on scholarships) is not an option.
Rather than face a conference looking to downgrade from 18 scholarships, the schools that have made the big investments in hockey decided to band together and ensure that scale-backs would not happen. The only way to ensure that would be to go on their own.
So what you see is this:
UND - hockey is the fiscal engine for Athletics
DU - hockey is the fiscal engine for Athletics
CC - hockey is the fiscal engine for Athletics
UNO - dropped FB and wrestling to commit to hockey
WMU - just look at their coach, a former pro coach, they've committed
Miami - they're committed to top-level hockey based on their performance record
UMD and SCSU have rinks (new or improved) and say they are committed (and if not, they'd be in a minority)
The teams in the WCHA (and CCHA for that matter) that have been "riding along" (not improving but benefitting when UND or UM came to town) got a rude awakening. However, that awakening is also opportunity if used correctly.
I understand what you're saying. The thing that I've never gotten a good answer on is what are these supposed things that were going to be "scaled back"? It's a very ambiguous term that was never defined. Besides, that argument falls on it's face when you have 6 schools that have gone to the NCHC from the WCHA and there are 9 schools left in the conference (and if they would have added Miami and WMU that is 8 and 11) so the schools "willing to spend money" are still the vast majority. Besides, the argument of scaling back to 18 scholarships is a scare tactic and nothing more. That has NEVER been talked about by any of the schools. To say otherwise is nothing more than floating an idea to see if it sticks.
Again, I'm not saying this is all the NCHC's fault. I'm just answering the question as to why the WCHA schools are bitter. The same way that UND is bitter and MN for not scheduling a series the next couple of years is the same way that WCHA fans feel about the conference shuffle. It felt like a slap in the face from the start. I am fully confident that MSU is going to benefit from this on a national scale. I think MSU is going to take advantage of the new conference and be in the conversation every year. Admittedly, MSU has been financially struggling for a while, but that wasn't due to "riding along" it was and is due to the way that the jump to D1 was done and was forced by the NCAA. Financially, MSU never had a chance to get ahead financially until recently. To say that schools were riding along is just not true. It may the perception from some schools, but it's not based in reality.
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The "new" WCHA will ensure teams like Mankato will make the WCHA postseason tourney all the time and have a way better chance of getting into the NCAA playoffs with an autobid. Years like this where Mankato is ranked high in the Pairwise have been few and far in between, and I believe it is an anomaly. I am not sure why they and other like minded schools are upset.
And it's degrading comments like this that drive those feelings of ill-will even more.
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Here's a question the WCHA people in charge of the ticketing list need to ask themselves. How many NCHC fans are going to attend future Final 5 games if they assist the Target Center and maintain the seat priority of loyal cystomers they have had for 10+ years? How many NCHC fans are they going to to get to attend future Final 5 games if they screw them over by not assisting the Target Center with seating priority?
Not sure why the grudge is all towards the NCHC and not the Big 10. Sure, more teams are going to the NCHC than the BIG 10, but you can directly point to the Big 10 for the breakup of the WCHA. There is no denying it. Their initial actions forming the BTHC led to the destruction of the WCHA as we know it.
And the question that I would ask in response is, what is the upside to providing that information?
I know you guys feel that the NCHC schools were forced into this. That's just a difference of opinion. I'm not going to have that argument again. The reality is though, that there is a lot of animosity about the way that the NCHC formed. In my mind there is 3 basic reasons for that:
- There is a feeling of a lot of deception in the way it occurred.
- There is a feeling of a the NCHC teams acting "superior" to the WCHA teams and are quite condescending (as evidenced by the post directly after yours). They talked about "like-minded" schools as if the WCHA schools weren't good enough from day one. Thumbing other schools down to prop your own schools up is not a good way to gain good will.
- There is also the fact that the Big Ten was inevitable. Regardless of what people think, the Big Ten has by-laws and if one school wanted to push it (ie WI and PSU) they could force the Big Ten to form a hockey conference. Expecting schools like MN to turn their back on a sportthat is, quite frankly, still a niche sport and hurt the rest of the university is just not realistic. On the other hand, the NCHC schools each made a conscious decision to move with no sports in mind other than hockey. It wasn't forced in the same way the Big Ten was.
Again, I'm not saying that you have to agree with that. I'm just answering your question about why there is such a difference in the reaction to the two conferences. It's will dissapate, but remember, these conferences are no longer on the same side. They are competitors. I know that the fans of the NCHC are not the same fans WCHA fans, but why should the WCHA help out a competitor. I've said in a previous post that this shuffle proved that college hockey is now a business (it's no longer above the fray). The WCHA teams were caught flat-footed and didn't recognize that soon enough. "Fairness" was thrown out the window about 2 years ago.
- There is a feeling of a lot of deception in the way it occurred.
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And yet they chose to help the Big# anyway....
Because the WCHA isn't competing directly against the Big Ten. The Big Ten and WCHA tourneys will be in different cities. The same can't be said for the NCHC.
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I know I'm just being naive' but I always expect the people/organizations/etc. will do the 'right thing'. The X isn't going to get the NCHC crowd by hanging on to the list if they do own it. And the WCHA also has nothing to gain by hanging on to the list. Hopefully, all involved will do the right thing for us fans.
No offense, but if everyone was worried about the "right thing" there would be no NCHC in the view of the WCHA. I think you're underestimating the hard feelings that the WCHA leadership and schools have towards the NCHC. College hockey has been made all about the money with the formation of the BT and NCHC. Why would the WCHA hurt themselves and give up a customer list to their competitor. That's like asking Apple to taking all the names and contact info of their customers and giving them to Google. It's just not realistic. The WCHA's responsibility is to the WCHA member schools. From this point forward, the WCHA has no responsibility to help any NCHC or Big Ten school (at least not in men's hockey).
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Where are the good hotels to stay in Mankato?
The Hilton and City Center are downtown. I prefer Hilton personally.
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The WCHA should share their list with the NCHC. It is not like they will need it anymore.
Ha! Yeah, the WCHA is really going to be happy to help out the NCHC in the future.
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The games I have watched on America One haven't been great. That being said I will be paying to watch it this weekend. Listened to Hennessy and watched once as the radio and TV were in sync. usually they're not. If you have a DVR you can sync them up somehow. Alot depends on who is doing the teleecast. Student productions are usually pretty bad. CC was terrible,terrible I tell ya.
These are done by Bethany students. From what I understand, they received an award for their production. What that's worth? I don't know, but they won it this year.
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I believe there will be a webcast on AmericaOne though. I haven't confirmed that but heard it through one of these message boards
that's true. If you want to get on that, go to msumavericks.com and navigate through to either the hockey page or the Multimedia tab.
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For those looking for a bit of a scouting report on MSU, here are a few things to watch for:
Goaltending- This is going to be a strength for a few years to come. Stephon Williams is the real deal. He's brash. He's cocky. He annoys the hell out of opposing teams' fans. He's not always great on his positioning, but he's athletic enough to make up for it in many cases. You'll see him make some pretty eye opening saves during the course of most games. Don't be fooled by the hype surrounding Adam Wilcox and his seeming runaway Goaltender and Freshman of the Year awards. Williams has a lower GAA and a higher save percentage than Wilcox. It took him a bit to take over the goalie position from Phil Cook, but he's a rock in the net.
Defense- Admittedly, the defense might make Williams look even better. MSU typically outshoots their opponents by a pretty decent margin (sorry, don't have exact numbers). The defense is a pretty responsible group. It's led by Tyler Elbrecht. He is a very defensive defenseman, but is on the ice in all pk situations (but very rarely, if ever, on the pp) and still has a positive +/- for his career (or at least did in November, I assume it is still the case). The only defenseman that is really a threat on offense is Zach Palmquist. You won't see this group make too many mental mistakes. They generally clear out in front of the net pretty well so there aren't too many juicy rebounds. The one place that you will see them give up some chances is Hastings has taught them to be more aggressive on the offensive end with pinching and driving the puck to the net. That leads them to give up a couple of odd man rushes each weekend. The aggressiveness pays off more often than not though.
Offense- The offense is actually pretty deep. There are a couple of standouts in Eriah Hayes (especially on the pp) and Matt Leitner. Hayes is second in the country in Power Play Goals and Leitner is second in the country in Power Play Points. Leitner is the first 40 point scorer for MSU since, I think, David Backes. He's a sophomore that to me looks like he will be the captain next year and he makes everyone that is on the ice with him much better. Teddy Blueger will be a good one, but he's still learning to play with kids that are the same talent level as him (versus the last few years at Shattuck). He has the ability to take a game over and have some pretty amazing games/weekends, but he still is learning when to play the one-on-one game and when to give up the puck. We've got a good young crop of players that will pitch in from time to time. As a team MSU scored 3 goals in 62 seconds on Saturday to blow open the game against CC. They can be very explosive. It's a very good team in the third period. They have scored much more in the third period than any other period.
Overall- This is not the same team as we've seen in the past. This team has discipline and won't be goaded into stupid penalties very often. It's not a goonish team as they have been accused of in the past (although I would argue every team in the country has some "goonish" moments and games). They aren't going to back down when they are punched in the mouth, but they aren't going to pick fights either. As mentioned, previously, Hastings has changed the mindset of this team. It's much more disciplined and it uses the talent that they have. Jutting did not leave the cupboard bare here. Hastings has just taken these kids and got them to focus rather than waste that talent on getting even rather than winning the game. Last year, coaches and media around the league were looking at MSU as a "darkhorse" in the conference, but they all forgot about that when the hype machine started churning this year. Anyone that was paying attention should have known MSU had the potential for this kind of year. I expect a split from this series. I really would not be surprised by anything though. MSU has shown the ability to beat anyone in the league and sweep anyone in the league. They also have weekends when they have slight letdowns (and a slight letdown is all it takes for a team at the top of this league to sweep). I look forward to it as I believe these kids will be amped up to bring a playoff series back to Kato for the first time for the seniors.
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Bale31 - Is there any kind of ticket exchange that MSU fans use? I am looking for two tickets for the Saturday game. There are only SRO tickets available and that is not accpetable due to a medical condition.
I have not heard of any. The best advice that I could give you is to keep trying. Usually there are additional tickets released on Wednesday that come back from the visiting team. I don't know if that's the case for this series or not. Also, the students are going to be on Spring Break, so they MIGHT have some that come back from the students. I don't have any inside knowledge of that though. There are some seats that are at the tops of the sections that are reserved seats for medical requirements. You might try calling to the box office rather than going online. From what I've seen, they have been really willing to work with people on those types of things. Again, no inside info on that either though.
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How is the upper deck in Mankato? Should be able to see pretty well correct? The rink can't be that big.
Pretty much every seat in the house is pretty good. It's only a ~5000 seat arena. I haven't seen what is still left, but you can usually get something in the 300 level near center ice. The away team's seats are in the 100,200,300 sections, but UND usually has people pretty well spread out all over the arena.
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We get MSU hockey on Charter on Channel 226 MSUPR in Fergus Falls.
Wow, I'm surprised. I didn't realize it was that widely broadcast. Since SCSU is in Sconni, I would assume that MSU will be the one televised then.
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Yea, I've seen plenty of those things in Grand Forks as well. Mariucci isn't immune from them either as I saw a guy in cut-off jeans on TV during Saturday night's game. Good times.Hey bale (pun intended), you know Mankato fans are invited to the SiouxSports.com brunch too, right? You don't need to be a Sioux fan to attend. Granted, it helps, but you're welcome to come join us.
Hmm...unlikely to happen as I lug around 2 kids and my wife, but I'll keep it in mind.
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Any word on TV this weekend?
The only tv MSU has is on local cable. I highly doubt there will be any tv for Sioux fans not in S. Minnesota.
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That's like asking if they still have cowbells and mullets at their games...
Oh, the irony....
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Mankato is finally putting a good season together where it looks like they will make the playoffs. That only took 17 years!! Good luck Penn State!!
We also didn't have a $60 million donation to get us started.
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Minnesota gained an easier road to two points out of it, didn't they? If I'm Denver, North Dakota, CC, or anyone else contending for a MacNaughton Cup that year, I'm livid. Mankato's athletic department can do what it wants, but turning a home game into a road game for the sake of $$$$ is sad. I hope administration still feels that that stunt was worth it. What a bush league move.
I don't disagree necessarily. I would just make 2 points about it though. The desperate move of doing this just shows how much the sport has turned into a business. The "lack of commitment" that I've hear MSU accused of falls pretty short. You don't make a move like that (which inevitably will piss your own fans off) without having a commitment to making it work. Secondly, I really don't think it screws up the integrity of the schedule or the game any more than outdoor games that are played on horrible ice that isn't frozen or has Ghostbusters goo seeping up through the ice.
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Gee, why WOULDN'T Minnesota like Mankato, especially after turning a home game for the local fans into a 90 mile road trip to the X a few years ago? If I'm a Mankato hockey fan living in Mankato, I would have turned in my season tickets immediately after that slap in the face.
Trust me, there is still a fair share of people that are upset about that...especially the downtown businesses. MSU still took the revenue from that so from a financial standpoint it was a good move. From a public relations standpoint it was horrible. Really, the Gophers didn't gain anything out of that. I'm not arguing it was a good move, just saying that MN didn't gain anything from it.
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You mis-read bale31's double-negative. Don't mind him NOT hating the Gophers...which means he's OK with them.
Sorry, bale31, I vote black ball.
How can you not ? A case of Stockholm Syndrome maybe?
I know that is why I deleted it,
I rescind my offer.
LOL...I was a step ahead of you I guess!
A friend of mine once asked me 'you've lived here for 20 years...can't you even like the Gophers as a second-favorite team by now?'
My reply: "If they reunited the 1980 Soviet Olympic team and had them play a game against the current Gophers, I'd buy a ticket to the game at Mariucci, wear my red CCCP jersey, and cheer as loud as I could for those commie bastards. THAT'S how much I hate Minnesota."
Sorry guys. I give them credit for finding a way to continue to schedule us through this ****storm. They found a way to put us on the schedule and still give us some revenue sharing from it. Regardless of their motivations, it's helpful to our program and for me it's hard to forget that. I think I'm in the minority on that within the MSU fan base, but I tend to look at things from a bigger picture not just the competitive on-ice side of things.
If it helps, I suppose I could pretend to hate them.
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A question for you. Just how much attention does Mankato pay to the hockey team? Do the students support it? Does the town support it?
Unfortunately too much losing for too long is making it a tough sell. Last weekend against tech they gave away 1300 student tickets (they typically allocate 1100) for each game. I assumed that since they were all given away that they would file in, but there were maybe 600 on Friday and 900 on Saturday. Students are pretty apathetic right now. It was a ton better about 4-5 years ago, but as MSU took the latest swoon that excitement fell off and there is going to need to be a new group of students that brings back that excitement.
From the people within the city it's shaky at best. People cheer for them, but that doesn't mean they show up. Again going back to last weekend, we had 3700 on Friday night and a respectable 4300 (I'm going off memory on this) on Saturday. I've always said that Mankato supports a winner and would come when the team started winning again, but I'm starting to doubt that a bit. It's a bit discouraging to me. A big problem is there isn't the kind of experience at the game that people in MN are expecting. MN, BSU, and Duluth all have arenas that were built after ours and are much nicer. SCSU got funds to renovate. We've gotten passed over for state funding 6 years running. We don't even have video boards to replay goals/hits/big saves. The experience isn't there. It's a tough sell, but I think it will get easier if MSU keeps winning and this isn't an abberation.
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What? You would turn down such an honor?
Depending on which day you catch me, I'm still bitter about the conference shakeup and alternate the blame between WI, PSU, Denver and UND. If you want another self-loathing fan I guess I'd be a good fit. Oh yeah, and if you don't mind me not hating the Gophers with every ounce of my being, I might be OK.
Exciting News Coming From the NCHC?
in Men's Hockey
Posted
Not if it makes you look like you're unprepared and contradicts your message.
Honestly, this is no big deal. Seriously, who cares if the logo got leaked early. The opening press conference, premature press releases, and announcements of announcements of announcements were much bigger problems.
I think I've probably misrepresented my stance on the NCHC. While I think this is a step in s strange direction (and, potentially, wrong direction), what's done is done. I don't hold ill will against the conference or schools. It may give me a little extra satisfaction to needle certain fans, but no grudges. I'd rather look to the future and how my university can benefit. I think, though, that the NCHC opened itself up to additional criticism when they talked about being like-minded schools as if they were superior to others and then made some pretty dumb mistakes that completely contradicted the perception they were trying to create. Point being, people are uber-critical of the NCHC schools simply because they have made mistakes that were hypocritical and made the same types of mistakes that they criticized the WCHA leadership for making.