PCM

This is what I don't understand about your position. You say that those who insist on standing and swearing are in the minority. You say that they are ruining things for the students who are willing to cooperate in order to maintain what they have. And yet, when your government puts forth a proposal that encourages and rewards the disruptive behavior by these students, you don't criticize the student government, you criticize those who find fault with their proposal -- at the same time you admit that it's worse than useless. How does that work? Are you and others who agree with you going to the student senate meetings and telling your elected officials to stop representing the minority and start representing the majority? Because as far as I can tell, your student government is paying no attention whatsoever to you.

This 2003 NCAA Report On the Sportsmanship and Fan Behavior Summit makes for interesting reading. Here are a few selected highlights:

That's the problem. Talking doesn't solve anything. Advancing impractical proposals doesn't solve anything. Everyone's been talking and throwing out ideas for years. Where has it gotten us? We're still talking and arguing about the same things.

Unfortunately, we don't know what prompted the letter from the UND alumni that triggered Kupchella's response. The organized profane cheers are a problem. I don't know how much of a problem standing students represent because I don't sit on that side of the arena and therefore don't deal with it. What I don't get is why UND's student government appears so intent on advancing proposals designed to encourage the swearers and standers when they are probably only a small minority of student hockey fans. I would think that a lot of student hockey fans would be upset by that. There needs to be a concerted, coordinated effort from President Kuchella's office, the REA, UND student government, the alumni association and the athletic department to work together to present some workable solutions.

Either Yzerman or the 2,000-pound gorilla needs to educate them.

You should have told them you were the NCAA.

Didn't everybody in the Ralph get that letter?

I like it!

I'm sure he has heard the problem with his own ears and seen it with his own eyes. Some UND alumni aren't going to let him forget about it, and neither is the NCAA. It's not a question of whether there's a problem. It's a question of what you do about it.

I understand what you're saying. What I'm saying is that dealing with the issue doesn't appear to be anyone's strength. There have been many discussions and meetings about what can be done to improve the atmosphere at the the Ralph, both in terms of fan behavior and fan participation. As far as I can tell, little ever gets done. All we do is argue about the same thing over and over again. I fully understand why this frustrates students. I've submitted various ideas, received positive responses and then never heard anything again. It's time to stop talking and start doing.

You could stand behind me and not block a soul. And I'd like a 2,000-pound NCAA gorilla covering my back.

Maybe we're both stupid because I've asked the same question.

You'd need either sudo-reporter or real reporter credentials to sit near me.

So what happens if the NCAA decides to get serious about enforcing a rule that's already on the books?

Your idea of "great publicity" and mine are two different things. Sorry, but I don't think the "we're not as bad as them" excuse gets us off the hook. I think you are missing something because I hear F-bombs dropped in unison from the student section quite often. He is and he has.

Note that Kupchella and UND are mentioned in this February 2004 USA Today article on fan misbehavior.

That's not really what he did. The Dakota Student got hold of a letter that Kupchella wrote to an alum who complained about student behavior at the hockey games and published it. This latest proposal on student seating appears to have gone from student government directly to the media. This issue is like the weather. Everyone complains about it, but nobody does anything about it. There have been all sorts of discussions, proposals and calls for ideas. The trouble is, very little ever seems to change.

I don't pretend to be an expert on everything UND- or hockey related. I'm far from it. There are UND alumni on this board who have been Sioux hockey fans much longer than I who possess more in-depth knowledge than I do. There are people on this board who spend far more time than I do pursuing rumors and leads about UND and Sioux athletics. I try to avoid making comments about topics on which I have no knowledge. I try to educate myself so that I can state informed opinions. When I state an opinion, I try to rely on facts to back it up. I'm the first to admit that my facts aren't always correct. When I make a mistake, I admit it. My response to 206Jockey was partly based on his latest post on this thread, partly on a private message he sent me and partly on what he's posted on this board in the past. I only wish that 206Jockey would do me the favor of reading my posts on this issue and understanding my position before assuming that he/she knows what I think and slapping labels on me. You could be right. Maybe I do make too many posts that ridicule people. I like to think that I save such posts for those who truly deserve it. I'll try to be more selective. Well, I guess I didn't appreciate 206Jockey's private message to me, either, but that didn't stop him/her from sending it.

The rules against standing and swearing should be enforced equally throughout the arena. Unfortunately, because there's a group of students who insists that they have the right to stand and swear and student government makes a habit of supporting their efforts, the student sections tend to attract the most attention. Everyone who goes to the games should enthusiastically support the Sioux. However, you cannot mandate enthusiasm or noise levels.

I do get your point. But my point is that out of the total number of students who attend UND, very few decide to attend the university based on whether they get to stand or swear at hockey games. And of the students who attend the games, how many are true hockey fans, how many are there just for something to do and how many are there just to be seen? We're talking about an issue that, in the grand scheme of things, doesn't affect all that many students. Let's not portray it as being a larger problem than it really is. That being said, I suspect that that UND wants to avoid creating the perception that it ignores student input on such issues. If that perception becomes too common, then it could impact the number of students who attend the university. Do students deserve a say in where they sit at hockey games? Of course. Are students a vital part of the atmosphere at hockey games. Absolutley. I've never said otherwise. I want them there. I'm sure the vast majority of Sioux fans want the students at the games. I can't recall a single post on this board in which someone said the there should be fewer or no students at the games. And, most importantly, the team needs the students at the games. But just because the students are an important part of the game and atmosphere, it doesn't absolve them of the responsibility to act in a socially responsible manner at a public event, just as buying season tickets doesn't give people the right to swear at the top of their lungs or prevent someone near them from cheering too loud. That's why it concerns me when student government offers proposals that revolve around giving students more freedom to stand and swear. I don't see such proposals as being helpful, useful or realistic. UND cannot and should not tolerate the organized profane cheering. And I see no realistic way that students can be allowed to stand for the entire game in any lower bowl seating. It would be great if we could get away from having to constantly revisit the standing and swearing issues every season which, at this point, should be non-issues. There are bigger fish to fry.

Are students on the endangered species list? I wasn't aware that they were becoming extinct. It's not "their university" until they can support it with "their money" and "their government." UND exists because the people of North Dakota support it.

No. The university belongs to the people of North Dakota who founded it and support it with their tax dollars so that their children can be educated within the state's borders. Without the support of voters and taxpayers, UND would cease to exist as a state institution.

Who are you and how do you know this? As I recall, the student section is where it is because the students wanted it there. I also recall that when a suggestion was made a few years ago to move the student section to an end of the arena, the students threw a fit about it. The Ralph has nothing to do with where people sit. It's a UND decision. I had no idea that students pay so much for hockey tickets. Boy, do I feel silly. If nobody's any better than anyone else, why do some people think they have the right to engage in behavior that disrespects other peoples' right to see and enjoy the games?

Luke Beaverson