UNDhockey22
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Posts posted by UNDhockey22
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They look at off ice activities, don't they? Wouldn't that mean extra ciricular activities as well as grades and social activities?
In most cases, X number of points in the West is significantly less if you were to play in the East. That point is supported by West teams losing in the first round of state the majority of years. Now, Eric Herbel must be a good player. However, does anyone think he is as good as someone who is leaving to play in the USHL, and is being scouted by the Columbus Blue Jackets? I doubt it. What probably happend was, a few coachs in the East split votes between Wurden and one of the other two candidates from the East. While every coach from the West voted for Herbel.
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Bottineau prolly juiced up his grades to make him look better. thats what small towns do. trust me. My roomate in college always told me about teachers givin him extra credit or better test grades cuz he was a 3 year starter on the basketball team.
That could be. Or it could be that the coachs from the East split votes between either Wurden and Miller or Wurden and Everson. And all the West coachs voted for Herbel. That is the only way I can believe Herbel won, even if Wurden is a "C" student.
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I never said 8 years of development hurt high school hockey. The point is that the majority of development comes over those 8 years vs. the 3 years in high school. So if you want to look as to why a high school hockey team is succeeding you might want to look at the youth program before you start pointing fingers at high school coachs (not that it has been done on this message board, but it is a scenario). I was unsure of how many years were played before squirts, but I was sure there were at least two years played by the majority of players. Read what I am saying. I am being as clear as I can be.
You have at least 8 years of development in youth hockey (at least). You have 3 years in high school. The majority of your development obviously comes in those 8 years of youth hockey. So to say that by strengthing the high school schedule of teams in the West will significantly improve their development, is hardly a logical case to make.
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Minot High no longer travels to Canada because a few years ago, a bunch of kids got caught with weed along with them. They were lucky because they did not get caught by the Canadians. Had they, there would have been big trouble. Now Minot High just elects not to go.
Minot's youth program has really suffered. Remember a few years ago when we almost went undefeated? Well, that was one of the last group of kids that had been coached while young by Ray Meluda (I am not sure if that is spelled correctly). None of the youth program leaders senses have been as good. (By the way, we lost State that year because of a bad High School coach.)
Also, back maybe 15 or 20 years ago, Minot drastically changed their youth program. They changed from in-house type teams to travel teams. This eliminated a ton of kids who could have played hockey. With traveling teams, hockey became, and still is, too expensive and time consuming to play. I know there are kids in Minot who have had to quit hockey for that very reason, despite loving to play and loving the sport. Back when my cousin played, Minot had 8 squirt teams. Now we have 4. And we have lost our Junior Gold team.
Having said that, I do not think Minot High playing an uncompetitive schedule is a very big part of the problem. Minot played G-PR, GFRR, GFC, Devil's Lake 2 times, and East Grand Forks from the East and Minnesota this year.
Minot's problem is their youth program.
I would say the majority of problems with any program is the youth program. You have 2 years before squirts, 2 years of squirts, 2 years of peewee, and 2 years of bantam. That's 8 years of development in youth hockey versus 3 years in the high school program.
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There really should be a North/South division rather than an East/West division, if anyone with authority were serious about improving the state of ND hockey. The fact is that there are a lot of nascent programs in the west, with Hazen/Beulah, Dickinson, Mandan, Williston. They used to do North/South for the shrine games in football, hockey, etc. There are really only a couple of good teams in the west: Minot, Bismarck, Jamestown, Williston (at least this year), Century (sometimes). I've always said that the east is never going to want to do this, even though it should. I know Samson always wanted something like that. I think the west should be able to play more games against Canadian schools. I have not lived in Minot for 21 years but, from what I've heard, it seems as though a lot of the old hockey player types are involved in the youth programs. Hockey used to be a popular sport in Minot among young kids and maybe it is not so popular anymore among young kids. I don't think the antics of Kraft help at all. Minot really should open up the hockey to other nearby towns like Surrey, Des Lacs, Sawyer. Even when I was in school some of those towns actually had pretty good athletes who played basketcase ball because they could not play hockey. I'm surprised that more base kids do not play. Minot and the west generally need an intesity shot. It seems as if they're satisfied or used to being losers.
The Minot program came out of obscurity when Blais came and even before that it was popular even though it was new. There were a lot of positives like the Minot Raiders, a new arena, a lot of high school players involved, Dave Stanley, Jeff Bredahl, Andrews, Mike Schmidt with the youth hockey guys when the young players were out there. There was a huge core group of parents from different neighborhoods who attended the practices and carpooled. I am not sure if that is how it is now up there but I suspect not. It's too bad. The East gets to play the Section 8A teams and the west does not have anything like that anymore. Why doesn't Minot schedule Notre Dame, Estevan, Moose Jaw, etc. teams both in H.S. and in youth? It was kind of fun exchanging those stupid pins with the Canadians before every game and before we usually got our a$$es kicked by them in 4th, 5th, and 6th, 7th, 8th grades.
Teams in the West are not going to significantly improve because they play better teams. If more people in the West knew how to develop players or put more effort into doing so at young ages and continued that intensity throughout high school, I see no reason why the would not be as good or better as the teams in the East. Do you think Red River and Central are traditionally so good because they get to play Warroad or Roseau once a year? No way. If you put the right personal in Wahpeton, and had them start with mites and work with them up into high school, they could beat Red River, South, Central despite not playing in tournements in youth tournements in MN or things of that nature. In my opinion, the reason why teams in the East are traditionally better is because for the most part the players are developed better. Not because they play better teams.
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If you are still unclear about my posts, as far as developing hockey players go, just ask. There are many different aspects of the game that need to be taken into consideration when training a hockey player. There are so many skill sets in this game it is difficult to figure what is the best way to train, so that everything you do, can correlate directly to improvements on ice. The difference in weight training in hockey is different from that of any other sport.
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Why do you have to come on every thread and blast someone who is trying to have a discussion?
Because he fears change. I am from the East and love to see teams from the East succeed. But, I want whats best for the game. I hope the teams in the West continue to improve and are able to provide more teams that can compete on a consistent basis with the likes of GFRR, FSH, Grafton, North, Central, etc.
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I'm not going to look it up, but was that Wurden getting drafted?? He's got the size, speed and hand skills for it. Sometimes I wonder if he'd be better suited for a power forward type roll. He seems to get caught up ice quite a bit right now, but he certainly has all the tools. We'll see if he can bring his game up as he moves to higher levels of competition.
If drafted would he be the first Bruin ever?? I can't think of any in the last 20+ years.
Yes it was Wurden. I don't think he has the offensive prowess to be a power forward in a higher quality league. Like any player moving up to a higher level of play, I think Wurden would be wise to improve his first step quickness. With the way the rules have changed, play favors a smaller agile player. It's like racing a Jeep vs. a sports car (Jack Blatherwick).
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I thought that this was an appropriate place to reference the link. Sorry I bored you.
I'm sorry I wasn't intending for that to be directed specifically at you. Other people on this board were criticizing me for claiming what your above post states earlier this season.
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You're right my wrestling coach didn't know how to train hockey players. He barely knew wrestling, but he did know how to train people to get the most out of them and when you got down to the end of the match you weren't the one sucking wind. Your opponent was.
Your original post talked about players getting stronger and faster and weight training and that is what I was responding to. What you are talking about now is skills training. You don't think that tennis players, soccer player, football players ... have skills training?
When you talk about high school coaches teaching skills, I would think that there are a couple of pretty coaches at RR in Malm and Chase that know how to teach skills.
Nothing beats hard work though. Tiger Woods and Michael Jordan are a couple of good examples that had skill, but their work ethic and training made them great.
I'm sorry but you still do not understand. To train hockey players you're workouts have to be integrated with specific movements that are related to how you perform on ice. I said that hockey players do not want to be trained like tennis players, soccer players, or football players. Do you believe that a hockey player is training properly by lifting weights like a football player, even if he is stickhandling and shooting pucks in his garage? I hope not. Weight lifting, sprint training, and endurance traing ALL need to be specific to hockey players. Not just "skills training" as you alluded to. In essence, everything a hockey player does is skill training. Matt Malm is a great coach I am sure. But he does not know how to develop a Alexander Ovechkin. If he did, Grand Forks Red River would never lose a game.
I am a huge advocate of hard work. But hard work will not get you far in this game anymore if you are not training smart. Because in due time for every player training hard, there will be a player training hard and smart. And it is easy to see which player will be the one succeeding in the end.
Anyway, I believe the point went to cost. The people who know how to train hockey players smart, rarely do so for free. That means you have to pay for it. Who can afford this training? The wealthy.
*This does not mean I believe poor families cannot have children who are very succesful in athletics.
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Back in the late 70's when I was in 9th grade we had a wrestling coach that had us lifting weights every day before school and running every day after school. He once equated wealth to laziness and that the kids at Schroeder were going to be the least conditioned and that the kids at Valley should be the most conditioned. I was at South, so were kind of in the middle. When we had the city championships that year, we came in as underdogs, but I won my weight class and South won the overall city championship, not because we were the most skilled, it had to do with conditioning. If it was all about skill, I would have gotten my butt kicked, because I was only in my second year of wrestling and the guy I faced in the championship was considered the best in that weight class. Money had nothing to do with it. You do need someone, a coach or trainer, to push you if you don't already have it inside of you.
You're talking about wrestling. We are talking about hockey. Hockey is a sport where there are few people who know how to train hockey players properly. There is probably no one that works at any high school in the state that knows how to properly train hockey players and will also do so for free. In this day and age hockey players don't want to be trained like wrestlers, football players, tennis players, soccer players, or long distance runners. Hockey players should be trained like hockey players (I gaurentee your wrestling coach did not know how to train hockey players). You can work very very hard on your own, and you still won't achieve the same success as someone who does not work as hard as you but they train smarter than you. Working hard, without working smart is a waste of energy. Ask any hockey player in the state what the most efficient way to recruit fast twitch muscle fiber is? They won't have the answer. Ask them why Alex Ovechkin can move his stick and his feet at the same speed at the same time. They won't have the answer. My bet is they would say "because he's really good". So who can tell you the answers to these questions. Not the players parents. So you can work as hard as you want but you won't be working effeciently. In the meantime someone else will be working just as hard but twice as smart and will dominate they player who is not training smart in every aspect of the game. So how do you get this advice? You pay someone to tell you.
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Nice article on Wurden in today's Forum. Looks like some NHL teams are looking into drafting him.
Here is the link: http://www.in-forum.com/Sports/articles/157350
Geez, I wonder if anyone has mentioned that on SiouxSports already?...
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I live well within the Fargo South district and I'm making huge sacrifices to keep my kids in hockey.
The game of hockey today is much different than it was 10 and 20 years ago. Players are bigger, stronger, faster, and less prone to injury than they were in the past. This is mostly because of advances in training, and the acknowledgement that it is necessary to train to become a top notch player. In the past, such training methods were not practiced. An NHL superstar once said "I'll start lifting weights when a dumbell scores a goal". If most players took that approach, it would not be long until they were laughed off the ice. With that said, it takes money to get the proper training. The wealthier the family, the more money they can dish out to support their training needs. This does not mean that all rich kids will be better hockey players than poor kids. It just means that rich parents have more opportunities for their players to improve, because the knowledge you need to train a player effectively is rarely held by the parent, thus you must pay someone for that advice.
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with all do respect i dont think he wouldve been a first line just for the simple fact that Red River has talent better than him and second liner and maybe a third liner but not a first liner
Alex Simonson, a third liner? I think not.
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You may want to check Sioux City's roster before you say he's going to Omaha.
I'm glad someone so patiently waited until I posted something that was incorrect, and corrected me. Such is a rare occasion, you should be given an award. Anyway, I didn't say as a matter of fact he was going to Omaha, just what I had heard, and said it was second hand information.
But enjoy the time while it lasts, I'm not wrong often.
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Really?
What is so homosexual about it? 
Now the senior athlete of the year from the West and the senior athlete of the year from the East have to kiss at center ice. It's really unfortunate.
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wait a minute...the real argus leader? I would love to get his autograph, i cant imagine the price of that on Ebay. I believe Wurden is going to Sioux City, not Omaha.
I had heard Omaho was the team of interest as well. That is second hand information, however. It won't be long until we know for sure.
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This could go on forever based on reading the posts all season. No matter what anyone posts, you have the correct reply. After a few, it gets a little moot.
No one has said that North's top line can compensate for inferior 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines. Your claim started as hands down the top line in the state, and when someone disagreed (how dare they?), you like to belittle the poster by calling them ridiculous or saying they have an out of wack vision. I still don't even disagree that the K-B-B line is very creative and one of the top lines in the state this past season. They were very fun to watch, and it is too bad they didnt have one or a pair of d-men that could compliment them the way a Galbreath, LaDouceur, Wurden, etc... could. I just argued that they weren't the hands-down best line in the state.
I have rarely disagreed with your posts throughout the year, they have always been fairly knowledgeable and informative. You just have the "i'm always right" complex going anytime anybody even debates your comments in the slightest.
I look forward to moving to the next topic, which will probably be all-state selections, outstanding senior athlete, and the state tournament this week.
Based on the posters, NDPride and yourself seem to have the best knowledge on Fargo North. I understand NDPride's affiliation, not necessarily yours. Maybe you are a former or current player, parent, coach, etc..
According to the rumor post in this section, Narveson may be headed to South High next season, can there possibly be any truth to that??
My intention was not to say your post as a whole was out of wack, sir. But I think you would agree that if you were basing the play of the line on two games at EDC, that would be well, out of wack. Agreed? I do not disagree, I do have an attitude that "I'm always right". The reason for that is because normally, I only post on things that I know to be fact, and have evidence to support my claims. Maybe to say "hands down" they were the best in the state was a stretch. I would say that they were the best in the state. By saying hands down, I may have made it seem as though they were on an entirely different level than every other line in the state.
I know a lot about most teams in the state. I am heavily involved in the game but am not a current, past, parent, or coach of anyone affialiated with Fargo North.
Narveson to South? Could be. But I doubt it.
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A lot of attention being given to a team whose season is done, but I digress. Against the top teams in the state; North beat Grafton 6-5, then lost 8-2 and 7-0. Against Red River, North lost 3-1 and 5-0. Finally against South, North lost 9-3 and 6-2. I saw two of North
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It's too bad that you noticed when north played the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines, they were extremely overmatched and Erickson didn't. If north would have rolled two lines all year North could have had a better chance.
North frequently played two lines. I'm not sure about what they did during the entire EDC tournement, however.
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North's first line struggled against South's top two lines and Red River's top two lines. They also struggled against Graftons at EDC.
I do not disagree North struggled against Grafton at EDC. As a matter of fact, there may have been a few times during the season when they struggled. However, at the first meeting of North vs. South it was a very close game until depth got the best of North. Norths top line scored all 3 goals keeping the game at one point at a 4-3 margin. It wasn't until the South opened the flood gates on Norths 2nd and 3rd lines that the game got out of hand. Norths top line did not always struggle against Grafton. If I remember correcly they beat Grafton early in the season. At another meeting in the season Tyler Klein scored two goals against Grafton in a 8-2 or something loss. They also lost to Red River by a score of 3-1. I am pretty sure no one will disagree that the only reason these games were kept even reasonable was because of Norths top line. It sure wasn't because of their goalie who had an 86% save percentage.
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So if they dominated play, one could very easily assume that they would score more than 1 goal in 2 games, when the games mean a trip to the state tournament. Apparently only people who oppose your opinions have "out of wack" visions. The assumption that North's top line of Klein, Bombenger, and Bekkedahl being the "hands down best line in the state" seems to be the out of wack vision. Creative passes don't make a line the top line in the state. Production does. You don't get wins for creative plays and crisp passes, you get wins from goals. North's 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines may have been extremely overmatched, but if the top line is in fact the top line in the state, they should get their goals. I will not argue that Klein, Bombenger, and Bekkedahl are a very, very good line, AND ONE of the best lines in the state. Tyler Klein is arguably one of the best players in the state. This has been proven over and over by national festival selections, HS Elite team selection, etc... Bombenger and Bekkedahl are very good HS players. I just disagree that they are the hands down top line in the state bc you watched them play against RR, or GPR, or South, or whoever and they apparently dominated the play. How many of Grafton's/South's/Red River's games did you watch when they weren't playing North?
No. An out of wack vision would be basing their quality on two games at the end of the season. When comparing lines, you want to compare how the lines play when they are against eachother.
How do you figure that creative passes does not make a top line in the state? You say that creative passes and crisp passes do not get you wins, goals get you wins, is that correct? Well if creative passing and crisp passing do not directly correlate to goal scoring than what does? Are you trying to say that creative passing should be overlooked by something like physical power and strength? It is visions like those why development of players in this area is not what it should be.
If you would go back and read your post through you would see that none of it correlates to how an actual hockey game works. You are trying to say, that if Norths line is as good as I say, they should have scored so many goals to make up for all the goals that the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines allowed? That is the most ridiculous statement I have heard regarding the game of hockey.
I don't base my opinions on how players compete against sub-par teams like West Fargo and Jamestown. With that being said, that is why I have been comparing them to teams like South, Grafton, and Red River. And yes, I watched South play Grafton, and South play Red River. And I feel that the line that best understood how to use the other forwards on the ice to create an offensive advantage, and capitalize on that advantage was Fargo Norths line of Klein, Bombenger, and Bekkedahl.
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You'd think the "best line in the state" by your claim could come up with more than 1 goal in 2 games to finish out the season. Klein, Bombenger, and Bekkedahl was a very good line of forwards. "Best Line in the State?!?!" That is a pretty tough point to argue. That's like saying, if anyone disagrees that Grafton's Top Line with Miller and Hills isn't the best line in the state, they should call the coach and get a game tape; Or is anyone disagrees that McDougall, Powers, and whoever skates with them isnt the best line in the state, call Coach Wilson and get his game tape..
If you're using "only coming up with one goal in two games" as your point of argument your vision of the game is extremely out of wack. The reason I mentioned getting a game tape from Coach Erickson was because you could watch the games against other top lines in the East and see that Norths top line typically dominated play in the offensive zone. It was when Norths 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines were on the ice that they were extremely overmatched.
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One of the top's lines in the state. Absolutely, I do not think hardly anyone could argue that. "Hands Down the best line in the state" is what I think there could be some argument on.
Whenever I watched this line against other top lines in the state (Grafton, Red River, South), the majority of time they kept the play out of their defensive end. There can be some argument on the subject, because it is a matter of opinion. But I believe that if you were to watch game tape when this line was up against other top lines in the state, their play was superior. I cannot recall seeing any line in the East that was as creative, or passed as well as this line did. If these players would have had the privelege of playing with some stronger defenseman their point totals combined could have been tops of any line in the state.
BOYS' STATE HOCKEY SCHEDULE
in Non-collegiate sports
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The voting process for these awards are not perfect. Same goes for all-tournement and the all-state awards. At the end of the day, what is a certificate that says "All-State" or "Mr. Hockey". It's a certificate. It doesn't really get you anything but recognition. So for all the players and parents that may be upset about how it turned out my advice to you is to forget about it. I gaurentee there is not a Jr. coach or college coach who is going to recruit someone because they made all state, or because they were Mr. Hockey. Your not going to see Columbus stop recruiting Wurden because Herbel won Mr. Hockey. My bet is they will roll their eyes and continue on in there regular fashion.
I don't think it is logical for someone from the West to try and bash the quality of players coming from the East (Erick Galt). Although he may not have got the playing time he wanted when he was at Lincoln, that does not mean he is not fit to play in that league. Players from the West have moved on from high school hockey and have done very well. No one will argue that. As far as the jab you took at players from Team ND playing Jr's. Team ND was mostly led by players from the East. The top two lines looked like this- Marc Mihulka, Paul Campbell, Nick Klenow; Andy Dittus, John Greicar, Marc Harrie. Five of the six are from the East. Brad Benke, David Hovet, Lane Smith, Tim Greigoire, Tony Kringstad were also on the team from the East. That is not all the players, but I'm drawing a blank. Point being, the team was led by players from the East, not the West.