UNDhockey22
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Posts posted by UNDhockey22
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Irmen should have stayed a gopher...he fit right in there, the filthy jersey-popping grandstanding gopher that he is.
As I recall, UND didn't miss him as during his time as a gopher. Because of his highly-elevated opinion of himself (that others obviously don't share), Irmen gets to rot away on a wild farm team instead of trying to redeem himself for the most embarrassing loss in the history of college hockey...
Here's hoping the UND and UM meet in Denver next Saturday night. If they do, I'm going to try to fly out there...
I can't agree. I would have loved to see Irmen in a Sioux uniform. Although he may have been a thorn in our sides, he averaged at least a point a game in his time playing against the Sioux.
We'll get the gophers when it matters most. For now, we were outplayed and it shows on the shot chart. I think Minnesota almost had a 2:1 advantage over us in this category.
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Although I would agree they have to be considered the early odds-on favorite to win another state championship I won't go as far as to suggest they'll go undefeated and nobody in North Dakota will play a close game with them. I'm sure they'll get beat by a couple of Minnesota teams and will have some close games against some North Dakota teams.
It's a little lofty to call for an undefeated season, but Red River will be very good. It's too bad LaDaceaur (sp?), Galbreath, and Meland are all on one team. The reason for that being, I doubt they will have 3 Mr. Hockey finalists from one team.
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Being able to tie your shoelaces without drooling all over yourself first. Seriously, I don't think that most coaches (the same coaches that vote for Mr. Hockey) care about GPA. Almost every team has those one or two players that the team depends on but are as dumb as a box of rocks. Funny thing is that most coaches always find a "way" to keep those players eligible.
If Herbel had a great GPA, his coach would definitly use that to his advantage in the voting process. If Wurden did not have a great GPA, I would hope Wilson would not bring it up. Because there are rules on releasing a students grades, Wilson could simply claim he does not know what Wurdens GPA is and because of that it should not affect the voting. For all the coachs know, Wurden could have a 3.5. Now I'm not sure if that happend, or if you can really conceal a students grade like that when he is up for an award like Mr. Hockey, but it would be a logical to solution for a coach to promote a player that has less than spectacular grades.
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Wurden, we get it.
Another intelligent post by an obviously intelligent poster.
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Welcome to the other 5%.
Welcome to the other 5%? So in your opinion I am wrong for believing Wurden should have won Mr. Hockey? So Paul Castron (Amateur scout NHL), Dave Hakstol, Dave Siciliano, and Brian Murphy are all wrong when they want to sign, scout, recruit, play Danny Wurden instead of Herbel?
Danny Wurden had only 9 less points than Herbel as a d-man. Not only that, while Herbel was skating circles around guys from hockey powerhouses like Rivers Collegiate, Bismarck JV, Dickinson, Bienfat, Central Butte, Antler River, and Boissevaine, Wurden was playing against teams like White Bear Lake, Moorhead, Grand Forks Red River, Rochester Century, Stillwater, and Grafton.
With the overwhelming evidence supporting Danny Wurden for Mr. Hockey, I am comfortable saying Wurden was shafted. I am going to no longer argue on this subject because I have yet to hear someone support Herbel in an intelligent manner. Take your beliefs, and I'll take mine, and at the end of the day, I'm glad to be sided with the likes of hockey gurus at levels much higher than that of this message board.
*An intelligent case to support Herbel for Mr. Hockey would have been...
Eric Herbel left his Jr. year to persue his career in hockey with the Omaha Energy AAA in NE. This is clear representation of his commitment to the sport, and the amount of sacrifice he is willing to have to succeed. He rejoined his high school for his senior year despite playing with lower quality players than that with the Energy. He put the success of himself behind that of the team and helped Bottineau to a record of 11-12-1. Despite not having as high quality players as teams like South and Grafton, Herbel was still able to produce an incredible 53 points in just 24 games. Herbel is not only a goal scorer, he has proved he is a good sportsman aswell. Herbel only acquired a total of 8 penalty minutes in those 24 games. Eric is commited to excellence not only on, but off the ice aswell. Unlike some other Mr. Hockey finalists, Herbel is great in the classroom and in the community aswell. It has been rumored that the Bismarck Bobcats of the NAHL have expressed interest in Herbel, although there is no solid evidence to support this claim, it is reasonable to see why they would be interested.
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I think all the western coaches voted Herbel #1 and gave the #2 and #3 vote to Wurden and Miller. The eastern coaches spilt the voted between Miller,Wurden,Kyle Everson and Eric Meland. Does anybody think there was a eastern coach that voted Herbel in there top 3. If the western coaches are as brain dead as everybody think, why has been 15 years since the last Mr.hockey. They could pull this off every year if they work together in there voting. There is one person who can tell use everything we want to know !!!!!! Bob Gillen... Bob did you see Herbel play @ West Region. What did you think?
Eric Meland is a junior. He was not up for the award.
Anyway, you proved Blantsons point. There were coachs in the East who could not decide whether to give the award to Wurden, or the leading scorer in the state (Miller). Every coach from the West wanted some recognition for the West and voted for Herbel.
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Everyone can have their own opinion, whether its right or wrong. You are not always right, but since you say you are should we just start calling you God then? Have you ever thought that Mr. Hockey isnt just based on the best hockey player but also on school and outside of school activities? Mr. Wurden has a very poor GPA and Mr. Miller had legal troubles this past summer. If the award is indeed to involve that criteria, then that would hurt their chances correct?
Mr. Herbal won the award and there is nothing you can do about it. Everyone has heard your opinion enough amount of times, so dont go bashing others for their own thoughts, and just drop it because no matter what you say, it wont change what has happened.
When I post on this message board, I am probably right 95% of the time if not more. I don't open my mouth on subjects in which I do not have concrete evidence to support my case. In the case of hockey, I almost always have concrete evidence to support my case. Everyone is entitled to their opinion, I agree. That does not mean there opinion is an intelligent one, however. If I were to say, in my opinion the classiest player to ever play in the NHL was Marty McSorely, it would be my opinion, but that would not make it intelligent.
I am not posting to try to get someone to appeal who the award was given to and have it handed to Wurden. No. This conversation arose because some people felt the award went to the proper individual, which it clearly did not. I do not base many of my posts on opinions soley of myself. USHL, NAHL, WCHA, and NHL scouts would agree that Danny Wurden was the best player in the state of ND this year. Now, if you want to call me God for not only studying the game of hockey, and using opinions of individuals who have similiar and greater hockey knowledge than mine (NHL scouts) to help draw my conclusions, instead of posting unintelligent and biased opinions, go right ahead.
I have thought about the outside factors that go into Mr. Hockey. Even so, Danny Wurden was too good to be passed up for the award.
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Let me first say that I thought Wurden should have won the award. I never got a chance to see Herbal play, but getting to see Wurden play a couple of games was a treat. Great skater, physical, and played a lot of minutes. To say that this is embarassing for North Dakota hockey is complete ignorance on your part. One kid from the west wins the award the last 15 years, and its a horrible thing? I feel sorry for Wurden, but he will probably still get drafted, and have a great hockey career playing college hockey somewhere. I don't think not winning Mr. Hockey will have a huge affect on him. I think it will be more of a motivator than anything.
I have a question for you though. You are the coach of Dickinson. You played Bottineau and the Herbal kid lit your team up, and is the best player you've seen all season. Grafton and South won't play you, so you don't get a chance to see their top players. How can you vote for a player that you've never seen?
A few things. Not winning the Mr. Hockey award will have no affect on Wurdens success in the future or hurt his draft stock at all. NHL scouts could care less about who wins this award. Now, it really does not matter how often a player from the West wins the award, either. Just because a player from the West has not won the award for 15 years does not mean that we should favor players that are nominated for the award from that side of the state because it has not had a winner in a long duration.
Now, Blanston, I agree very much so with the majority of your post. But in the beginning of your post you say "It does no good to sit here and argue over something very few of you on this board are educated about." Well, and I am not intending to be standoffish because I agree with most of this post but, where is your hockey education coming from? I only ask because at the end of your post you say something to the extent that Western coachs should not have the same voting power as Eastern coachs? Tell me how that solves the problem? That would not solve the problem, my friend.
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Boy are you pompous!
Great point, you just changed my opinion (rolling eyes).
If by pompous you mean intelligent, then yes, I am very pompous.
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I don't know. I kindof get knownothing's point. You know, I could argue that some arbitrary guy on GPR deserved it... let's say, the guy who wears #7. I could come up with the best case imaginable and I might even convince the lot of you (most if not all of you know more about high school hockey than I, I admit) that I'm right and, you know what? It won't mean a damn thing.
Why? Because message board posters and hockey fans don't choose Mr. Hockey. The Coaches did. So, the coaches chose Herbal whether you liked him or not.
From reading this board, Herbal has two things going against him in the eyes of the typical poster here:
1. He plays for a Western team. The West sucks, therefore noone from the West deserves an individual award for excellence over someone in the East, regardless of the Eastern team the guy plays for (In other words, a GFRR fan will favor a Fargo South or GF Central guy before someone in the West gets the award).
2. He's a good player on a bad team and a bad team means everything (I guess) when it comes to who fans think deserves an award given to an INDIVIDUAL. Good thing no one told this to me way back when. My fondest baseball memory was Andre Dawson winning NL's MVP award despite being on a last place team. From what I understand of what I've read here, if you don't finish in the top 3, you shouldn't be considered. Come to think of it, Grafton finished 4th or 5th this year and their coach got the coach of the year award. I'm sure that was bogus as well.
Come to think of it, after reading this thread, I'm now even happier Herbal got the Mr. Hockey award.
RedWing77, are you reading this message board, or just coming to your own conclusions? No one said Herbel did not deserve the award because he was from the West (great players come from both sides of the state). No one has said anything about Herbel not deserving the award because he plays for a bad team. I'm not so sure what your reading skills are like but maybe you need to have them fine tuned in the near future.
To tell you the truth RedWing77, I think your a liar. You say "I could argue that some arbitrary guy on GPR deserved it... let's say, the guy who wears #7. I could come up with the best case imaginable and I might even convince the lot of you (most if not all of you know more about high school hockey than I, I admit) that I'm right". Could you really? Could you really post something like that? I doubt it. I would love to see you try, however.
You don't know if Eric Herbel is the best player in the state. You don't know if Danny Wurden is the best player in the state. But some of us, unlike you, are able to distinguish between good players and great players.
Now, I would be thrilled if someone could make a case on behalf of Herbel that says something other than "he won the award, get over it". Or "the coachs voted him so he is the best player in the state". Those are hardly arguments that someone with hockey sense would make. If your argument is going to be "the winner of the award deserved it", okay. Just like when Wayne Gretzky was 19 and he lost the scoring title because he was tied for points but he had less goals and more assists. Although, the scoring race is not as much a matter of opinion like an MVP award would be, it is a matter of opinion that goals are more important than assists. Is that that proper opinion? You could side with those who voted on the award (coachs, like you are now). Or you could side with arguably one of the greatest hockey minds to ever grace the ice (Wayne Gretzky, who said by giving the award to the person with more goals, you're sending the message that assists are not as important as goals). Point being, you can't always just go by what a high school hockey coach thinks. Does the coach have his own agenda? Maybe. How much does he really know about the game? If you've studied the game, these are things you are able to do, if you haven't you have to take the opinion of the person with more knowledge. Which is what you are doing. These coachs know more than you, so you side with them.
Somebody should ask Herbel who he thinks the best player in the state is.
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You are the one that is obviously very biased and we are all entitled to our own opinions. But you know what? It doesn't matter...Eric Herbal was chosen as MR. Hockey. Like I said...get over it!
You are unable to come up with an intelligent reply to any of my posts, which solidifies what I already believed. You are either very young, or have not been around the sport very long.
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You are the one that is obviously very biased and we are all entitled to our own opinions. But you know what? It doesn't matter...Eric Herbal was chosen as MR. Hockey. Like I said...get over it!
Biased? I am not friends with Wurden nor Herbel. I do not like South, and I think Bottineau has a terrible team. You can have your opinion that Herbel deserved the award, but your opinion is still wrong.
Get over it? I simply replied to a statement made on this message board, and then replied again when someone questioned what I know to be a fact. I am not losing any sleep over this, but it's sad when someone who is clearly the best player in the state is not acknowledged like he should be.
End lesson.
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The ND senior hockey player of the year has nothing to do with playing in the USHL or having a pro team interested in you. It is simply the player that those who choose felt was the best high school player. It would be the same as the Heisman Trophy award winner in college football. That award is not given to the player with the best pro potential, it is given to the best college football player that year. Eric Herbal won the ND player of the year award..he was very deserving. Get over it!!! I hope Danny Wurden has a great career and is very succesful!
Knownothing, your name is very appropriate. I already addressed the issue of potential, and went in depth into why someone playing in the USHL is obviously overly qualified to win Mr. Hockey, and is almost definitly being snubbed if he does not win the award. You however, ignored those points and played something like a broken record. Anyone who is unbiased as to who wins Mr. Hockey would agree that Danny Wurden was the best player on the ice in the state of North Dakota. I'm not one to base the quality of someones play on points but Zach Miller put up numbers as good as Herbel in the East. Obviously he had better players with him, but the competition was much harder. If you consider all the above facts it's easy to come to the conclusion the Miller and Wurden split votes, and the West (who wanted to see there own succeed, with disregard to who the best player is) all voted for Herbel. It's a harsh reality.
Now, I'm not going to argue this anymore because your skull is obviously to thick to take in any logical information. In the next few months to a year you will be able to clearly see who the better hockey player is. And when the time comes I don't want to hear "he just reached his potential in those fews months". Please.
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What are you trying to prove by stating, "where is Paul Murphy now"? He won Mr. hockey, played in the USHL and then played for a quality program in UND. I dont understand what you are getting at. Im sure anybody in high school hockey would be more than satisfied to have made it as far as Paul Murphy did.
Askew is one of the best players North Dakota High School has ever seen.
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My point exactly.
What is your point exactly? Danny Wurden is in Sioux City playing with the Muskateers right now. Why would he be there? Is Sioux City just getting his rights and hoping for major development in the summer months? I doubt it. The scouts in the NHL have various ways that they rank a players potential. While many players have potential, what is most considered is the odds the player will reach that potential. They rate players like 6.5 C. The C meaning they might reach there potential. An A meaning it is almost certain they will reach there potential. Point being, they don't just show interest in anyone based on potential. They player has to show them something in the present (besides potential) that tells them they could one day play in the NHL.
Being named Mr. Hockey does not mean you are the best player in the state. Not in the least. Being named Mr. Hockey does not even mean you were the best senior in the state. It does not even mean the majority of coach's in the state thought you were the best player. It means that more coach's voted for you than the other players.
My point. There are no NHL scouts interested in Eric Herbel. There are no WCHA teams interested in Eric Herbel. While he is a good player, he is not on the same level of Danny Wurden.
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"Shakey defense"? What is your definition of shakey? If by shakey you mean playing 30 minutes a game, breaking up odd man rushes, making tape to tape break out passes, and scoring more points than most forwards do, then yes, he was very "shakey".
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I have seen both Herbal and Wurden play. Herbal was a great choice for ND player of the year, he is very deserving. It doesn't matter if he is going to Sioux City or is "rumored" to be a potential draft pick by Columbus, he was the best ND high player. Wurden had a poor state tournament and is probably overrated. He put up great offensive numbers but played very shakey defense. We will see how far he goes. Don't be surprised to see Herbal play beyond high school. Congratulations Eric!!!
Herbel had plenty of exposure playing for "AAA" (that team was hardly qualified to be a AAA team) and I don't see pro teams or college teams knocking on his door. If you want to go toe to toe with who is the better player (Wurden or Herbel) with an NHL scout, feel free to. Because by claiming Herbel was the best player in North Dakota that's exactly what you're doing.
It doesn't matter if he's going to Sioux City? Well apparently, Sioux City thought Danny Wurden was good enough to play in the USHL, while I have yet to see another USHL team pick up a player from North Dakota High School this season...
I won't be surprised to see Herbel play beyond high school (see Charlie Bair), but by saying Wurden wasn't the best player in the state your not only going against me, you're going against USHL, WCHA, and pro scouts around the country. Good luck.
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Congrat to the individuals and West Teams at State and especially Williston. I am sure, you did have a number of East Teams on the edge. I would have loved to see the Williston upset. Definitely the best team playing that game did not win (even though the other team scored more during the game and one can argue they are the best because of this and their overall record), I still say the best team playing that game did not win. Good showing.
Williston better than Red River? Maybe if it was Williston against Red River JV.
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I think he actually played football, not hockey, at UND in the late '70s to early '80s. Pretty sure he was originally from Canada.
I want to say he is from Thunder Bay. Anyway on Diechert, although he had a great season last year, part of that could have been the result of great defense. At this point in time, I do not consider him a division one player. If plays at the Jr. A level and succeeds at that level, then it will be more clear if he is talented enough to play at the college level. For most players, at this point in their career, playing division one is very speculative.
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There are many other factors that go into the voting process for Mr. Hockey from what I know. Mr. Wurden obviously didnt stack up in the other areas to herbel or the other candidates. Get over it. If you honestly think this is gonna make or break Danny Wurden you are crazy. He will still go to Sioux City and play in the USHL and we shall see what happens from there. Good luck to both Herbel and Wurden.
No one ever said this is going to make or break anyone. At the end of the day it's an award. Nothing more, nothing less. It meant you were successful in high school, not that you will be successful at any other level.
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The coaches have always picked the All-State Team. The media, on the other hand, selects the All-Tournament Team. It has been that way as long as I remember.
Arnason should have been on the team, so I agree with that assessment.
Herbel may have benefited from a split vote, but there are many here who have in past years wanted more than just the two candidates (EDC and WDA Sr. athlete), so now that it worked against you, remember you can't have it both ways.
Dave Hoff, Bottineau's coach, says there are numerous talented players in the state, but he says Herbel is the best skater in the state. Put that info with his stats, and the pick is legit, doesn't mean someone else getting it would not have been legit, but I am comfortable Herbel is deserving of the award. Hoff has coached a long time, and knows his stuff. He has coached Team ND in Chicago Showcase.
It is his opinion that Herbel is the best skater in the state. I would not use that information to justify a NHL prospect being snubbed of Mr. Hockey. There are many factors that go into assessing the quality of a players ability to skate. Is he talking about skating in a straight line? Or is he factoring into how he moves side to side, front to back, and from a stand still. Alexander Ovechkin is not a very good skater in a straight line. Next time you have the opportunity, watch him on a one on one. He is always moving side to side, crossing over, because he is not as confident skating in a straight line, that is why he is so hard to defend against. But, he bends at the waist, and the force of his push does not travel through his center of gravity. It would be my assumption, that if you were to ask Coach Hoff if Ovechkin is indeed a good skater, he would probably reply with yes, and he would not be able to tell you much other than that. While Ovechkin is a tremendous skater when he is moving from side to side, and is explosive from a standstill, he is hardly the model for perfection for skating stride. Some players have strides that are actually too good. Yes, too good. Take Kyle Okposo for example. Okposo has a tremendous stride that is powerful and very long. The only problem is, it may be too long for optimal footspeed. While Herbel may be a good skater, Coach Hoff would have to assess the ability of every players ability in the state to skate as well as close to perfection as possible. I do not believe Bottineau traveled too far East, so I'm not sure how he would have the means to study each players stride at any significant level.
End lesson.
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wouldnt be cought dead in one.
Probably because your not a good enough athlete to play in one. I would be willing to bet that at one point in time 70% of the hockey players that come out of North Dakota have played organized youth soccer. Soccer is on TV in North Dakota.
It is not as prevelant in High School soccer as it is in a premier soccer league, but the game is anything but that for the "danty". Anyone who has seen a competitive game knows that.
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Of course, as has already been stated, some of the Eastern players received bids to play at the next level before the Showcase tryouts and were consequently not eligible to try out for the team per Showcase rules. If you really want to make some sort of valid analytical conclusion about region of the state and the number of players going to juniors you would have to track kids from their sophomore, junior and senior years - not just senior, if you want the complete picture. For example, the Eastern kids who leave high school hockey early like Mario Lamoureux, as well as Western kids such as Jordan Willert, would have to be factored into the analysis. And then of course, you have western kids who leave the west to play in the East (Krebsbach, McBain, etc). Typically Eastern kids do not move to the West. All in all it is great that both parts of the state are represented at the next level.
It is my understanding that Brad Benke has intentions of trying to play hockey somewhere next year although he is a full time student at UND right now. Tony Kringstad is playing for the Quad City Express I believe, I am unsure but I believe that is a Jr. B team. It is also my understanding that Nick Klenow is only going to school part time and turned down an offer to play Jr. A hockey in Canada. I believe he will try to play next year. Paul Campbell attended the FM Jets open camp and decided that it was not for him. I am pretty sure there is a team somewhere that would have enjoyed his company. If there are any other players from that team that are currently still playing I apologize for not mentioning there names aswell. None of this is first hand information, so if I am wrong I would actually enjoy being corrected so I can get my information straight.
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I agree. However, I do believe that strengthening the schedule at the youth level (Squirt, PeeWee and Bantams) will strenghten the programs. The eastern teams not only play each other and "local" teams such as Moorhead, Alexandria, Roseau, Warroad, etc., but will play many Minneapolis teams in tournaments in Fargo, Moorhead, Grand Forks and in the Twin Cities. There is no better way to measure the success of your program than playing the best competition so that you know how to measure your development. However, the critical development of players is at the mite, squirt and pee wee levels through ice time, practice and good coaching.
I agree. Improvements may been seen if the schedule is stronger from squirts throughout bantam. I do not believe strengthening the schedule of only one level of play will make any significant improvement, but if the quality of competition is greater throughout a prolonged period of time, improvements may be made in on ice play. Improvements obviously will not be made in stride length, stickhandling, strength, power, maybe some improvements would be seen in a minor way on speed and footspeed, simply because players will be faster and you have to go 100% the entire time to keep up. Still, the best way to improve those is through specified training. The improvements that will be seen will be in ability to make decisions quickly, and overall knowledge of the game.
Fighting Sioux vs. Minnesota Game Thread
in Men's Hockey
Posted
The goal was scored last night because Brian Lee did not give 100% effort on the play. Give anything less than 100% against a player like Blake Wheeler and things like this are bound to happen. It is no different than the goal scored the 1980 Olympics against the Soviets. A routine dump in, everyone feels the play is over, and the next thing you know, the pucks in the net.