RD17

The funny thing is that just a couple of years before GVSU started its run and played UND for the 2001 championship, many GVSU supporters wanted Kelly's head. He had been the coach at GVSU since 1991 and he had never won a playoff game coming into the 2001 season. He also had a losing record against Ferris State at the time, who was GVSU's top rival. And now he is probably the hottest coaching name in the college game... it is certainly a strange profession.

UND has never been a program that relied on transfers. And I agree that going that route is not the best way to build a program, especially at the FBS and FCS levels (although it can be done in D-II). But with the combination of moving up a level of play and having 2-3 recruiting classes where the attrition at LB was horrible, and I think it's a necessary evil this off-season. Even if some of these highly touted kids that are redshirting are ready to make an impact, for UND's defensive system to work well they need to be two deep with solid linebackers at all four spots and it's not close to that right now. The UND coaches knew that LB would be a problem area coming into this year and they did bring in one Cali JUCO LB last spring, but he got booted from the team before the season even started. Hopefully they can have better luck this offseason. I did catch part of the Tech/Nebraska game last week and I was really suprised at the result. The Huskers have a couple of monsters at DT and I thought they would cause a lot of trouble for the Tech passing game because they would be able to create pressure without blitzing. Guess not. OU and even Texas look vulnerable to me and if Tech keeps getting better they should finish near the top of the division, IMO.

I'm in agreement with you about the defensive line. There is some young talent there that is only going to get better with time. Just think about having the line anchored by Benjamin and Brenneman as seniors in 2012 when UND is playoff eligible. Give those two guys three more years to develop and both have the talent to be forces at the FCS level, IMO. I am really concerned about what is going on at linebacker though. The guys getting the bulk of the playing time now are mostly juniors and seniors and some of them have been getting playing time for several years now. The lack of development in some of these guys is alarming, IMO. It goes without saying that UND needs to get much more athletic and much more physical at the LB position to compete in D-I. Even if the freshmen that are currently redshirting turn out to be stars, I think the coaching staff needs to beat the bushes to find a couple of transfers at LB this offseason to come in and be immediate factors or the defense will be down again next season.

Been thinking about how to predict this game all week. I think that unlike last week, the boys will be focused and will play hard, but SUU has shown some explosiveness offensively this year. Not a good match up with how banged up the Sioux defense is. I think I feel more comfortable with UND's chances against either of the two Cali schools because it has been easier for opponents to keep them off the scoreboard. Mussman indicated earlier this week that one of the things the coaching staff is focusing on going into the game is being more creative at getting the ball into the playmakers' hands. I understand that the SUU defense is a bit unorthodox and likes to run a lot of man coverage, so maybe the offensive coaches can get a match up they like with Bamba and find a way to make a couple of big plays? Just something I picked up that may be worth keeping an eye on. That said, this could be a huge win that rights the ship for UND if they can pull it off, but I have to be honest and go with my gut: SUU 27-21.

Yes, Mesa did make the playoffs that year. But if you put USF in the RMAC, they would be in the D-II playoffs every year as well. I looked it up. At the time that Mesa beat UND, Mesa was coming off a 5-6 season and had lost its season opener the previous week 42-16 to Central Oklahoma. At the time it happened, this was a much worse loss. Let's face it, it's USF's NAIA label that no one can get past.

I don't know... USF would pick apart USD's defense just like they did to UND. USD should schedule them. USF will be looking for opponents in 2011 when they don't have a conference and are transitioning to D2. USD could easily sell out their dome. Sounds like a win-win to me. Speaking of choking on cupcakes, anyone remember UND losing to Mesa State in 2003? UND beat them 66-7 the year before and Mesa was operating with about 15 scholarships. If USF had to count its aid based on NCAA standards, I bet they would have 35+ players on scholarship right now. Plus, I'm sure USF is getting players that wouldn't get through the NCAA clearinghouse. From a pure football standpoint, that Mesa State loss was just as bad... it's just that in this case no one can get past the NAIA label.

Well, the only logical conclusion one could come to is that at the very least, USF is better than USD. If USD or any of the other SD schools feel they need a chance to prove otherwise, schedule them.

As pointed out elsewhere, SDSU had a much worse loss during it's transition, but which one of the four Dakota D-I schools is in the best position right now? NDSU (coming off a 2-8 season in D-II) beat Montana and it didn't exactly collapse the Grizzly program. UND's win over UNI certainly didn't do much for UND's recruiting in 2007 while UNI seems to be doing just fine. And where exactly did I say that this wasn't a bad loss? Of course it is unacceptable, but you're blowing it out of proportion for what it means for the future of the program. Regionally, UND is recruiting against NDSU (who is now 1-6), USD (who we have owned for 15 years) and SDSU (UND went into SD and took two recruits last year who the Jacks wanted) so I don't think this one loss to USF is going suddenly make recruiting impossible.

What? Didn't UND just set a single season attendance record last season (per game average)? Didn't the Alerus sell out just two weeks ago for just the second or third time in facility history? Didn't Chris Mussman say that the atmosphere at the USD game was the best he'd ever seen at the Alerus Center? The last two weeks were poor opponents scheduled on the worst possible weekends so attendance was (predictably) down. This sort of thing is going to happen during the transition. But I don't think there has been a complete collapse of support for the program.

This is a fine idea... have you "mentioned" this to anyone in the athletic department?

Dale Lennon needs to get an FBS job ASAP because he drives away the fans come playoff time.

Which is why playing this game was so foolish in the first place. I knew USF would be good, as did you and many other posters on this board. But the problem is that most people want to compartmentalize every team based on the division they play in and since USF was NAIA that equates to Mayville State or Valley City State which in turn equates to no good. In actuality, USF transcends its level of play and would at minimum be a D-II playoff team but no one will look past the NAIA label. It was a no win situation. There are people calling this the worst loss in UND history... just based upon the actual talent on the field, I don't even think it's the worst loss in the last 5 years. The 2005 loss to a far inferior UNO team when UND blew a 19 point lead and a national championship season was much worse if you ask me.

True. Plus to run a good 4-3, you'd better have a couple of DEs that can rush the passer and at least one dominant DT. In a 3-4, your defense can still be effective with the "tweener" type DE that may not have the quickness to be a dominant pass rushing DE in a 4-3 or the size to be a dominant DT in a 4-3. Those types of linemen are easier to find.

Comparing UND with Duluth is an apples to oranges comparison because they are different types of institutions that are now playing at different levels. A valid comparison would be UND and Montana. The two schools are close in size, have roughly the same metro population to draw from, and are both flagship universities in their respective states. I realize that Montana has long been an FCS power while UND is just transitioning to that level. But Montana regularly sells out it 25K stadium while UND fans rationalize only getting 6K to a playoff game? Also, UND's potential football fan base doesn't end at the Grand Forks County line. There are a ton of alumni in Fargo, but unfortunately, they are not being marketed to.

UND's scheme is just fine. The 3-4 is very popular all around football again because of all the spread offenses. If anything, UND had a big advantage 8-10 years ago because very few college teams were running a three man front and now a high percentage of them are.

This isn't as simple as "so what" and move on. Bottom line: the game should never have been scheduled. As mksioux mentioned in the other thread, if not scheduling this game meant only four home games this year, that's what should have been done.

Not to say I told you so but... As I pointed out earlier, this was just plain stupid scheduling. It was pretty obvious coming into the year that this would be a down season for UND so not only does the athletic department schedule this type of game against an outstanding lower division opponent, but they also schedule it against a team from within the region where the negatives from a potential loss are magnified? There are certain things you just do not do when trying to build a program and one of them is schedule yourself into a no win situation. It is amazing to me just how bad the 2006 and 2007 recruiting classes are. One of those years UND brought in six linebackers and none of them are left on the roster? Ever since Bubba Schweigert left the coaching staff, the recruiting on the defensive side of the ball has been subpar. Every single defensive player on UMD's D-II championship team last year was recruited by Bubba and every single one of them was from the same area that UND recruits. Probably not a coincidence.

Judging from your other posts in this thread, I don't think you have a very firm grasp on reality, at least in regard to this subject.

I can't say I'm surprised by this attitude.

Well it certainly isn't going to have a positive effect. And this is going to take a long time for NDSU to repair lost trust in the eyes of the general public. North Dakotans don't take well to this sort of thing.

Because, as ScottM mentioned a couple of posts above, someone involved with the Foundation knew that it was wrong and had the stones to bring it to light.

The problem is that the NDSU Foundation will likely get hit from both sides. There will be the donors that were the blind followers of Chapman that are going to be angry with the Foundation for airing the dirty laundry which forced his resignation. Then on the other side there will be those donors that won't want to give because of the reckless spending being allowed previously. The NDSU Foundation is going to need some tremendous leadership to pull through this and not have donations sink significantly.

You mean Joe was going to abdicate the throne of his $2 million dollar palace just months after it was completed? Somehow I'm not buying the retirement excuse.

One of the things casual fans may not understand about the NAIA is that while schools are limited to 24 scholarships in football, that number only applies to athletes that see varsity competition. So in other words, USF almost certainly has many more scholarship players being redshirted this year that are receiving money that does not apply to that total of 24. So while the school fights the "NAIA stigma" while recruiting, it is certainly offset by the money they can give out. The University of Mary had to cut scholarship money in football when it moved to the NSIC/D-II and subsequently the Marauders' level of play has not really improved since making the move. This leaves the impression that former NAIA schools have low caliber programs but in reality it is a case of not having as much money to work with after they make the jump. I suspect that this will probably be the pinnacle year for USF football as they will have a hard time maintaining their current level when they join D-II in a couple of years. Also, when you look at USF's schedule, they have beaten up so far on the weakest teams in their league (except for Hastings who is 5-2). They have yet to play the 2-3-4 teams in their league, including Morningside, who may be just as good as USF this year.

There have been countless excuses/reasons for poor football attendance put forth over the years on this board, and although some do have merit, I think people are missing the deeper issue: The CULTURE of the university, community, and alumni base are what cause the issues with football attendance. UND has become so "hockey-centric" that many fans are only willing to support the other sports on campus if it doesn't interfere with their support of hockey. This hasn't always been the case. I can remember times in the early 90's when basketball at the Hyslop would outdraw hockey at the old REA when the games were being played on the same weekend. Keep in mind that I don't say any of this to disparage hockey... I'm smart enough to realize what the sport and the new REA have done for the visibility of the University and I'm a fan that follows the team as well. I knew this year would be a bit of a downer for football because the team isn't where it needs to be talent wise for the FCS level and with many of the home games being late in the season and conflicting with hockey, attendance might take a bit of a dive. I'm willing to live with those realities for now as some of the bumps in the road to becoming a full-fledged D-I program. But, in order for the D-I move to succeed long-term, UND must find ways to cultivate new fans and/or convince those that currently only follow the hockey program to buy into supporting the other major programs (football, men's/women's basketball) as well. I think having the national TV deal should help in that regard and when it comes to football, attendance only needs to increase by a little over 2K per game from what it has traditionally been at the Alerus to sell it out. If UND is reasonably successful in football and cannot reach a consistent 12K attendance level by the time the program is postseason eligible, then we have a problem.