82SiouxGuy
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Posts posted by 82SiouxGuy
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The University will survive as a school without the Big Sky. The Athletic Department will take a major hit without it. And damaging the Athletic Department will take some of the luster away from the school itself. Dr. Kelley has to spend most of his time leading the University, he shouldn't have to spend it trying to work a miracle that you've dreamed up. That isn't a practical use of his time, especially when it is an almost impossible task. -
My guess would be losses last week by some schools ranked higher than UND.What do you think caused the upward shift in the possible rankings? Any ideas?
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But you are willing to let the rest of the Athletic Department die rather than give up the nickname.I have said I am for the Fighting Sioux Hockey Team - almost 30 yrs as a season ticket holder & went a lot before that
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The 30 year part wasn't in the settlement. The SBoHE said that they wanted at least a 30 year agreement because they didn't want to have to worry about the issue coming up every year or 2. But that number was never written in stone, they were willing to negotiate on the actual length.They have already said that the vote doesn't matter. It's in the settlement. The Tribal Council has to give a 30 year binding, legal, document giving their permission. A vote by SR members doesn't do that.
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I agree. But there seem to be a lot of people that don't understand any of that.True.
If the name is to stay, it would have to be through a lawsuit from a 3rd party, like the SL tribe has started with the NC$$. UND/SBOHE/North Dakota state government all have to stay out of it in order to protect UND's standing with the Big Sky and the NCAA. Seems simple enough, doesn't it?
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I have mixed feelings on that issue both ways. Free speech is very important, especially at institutions of higher learning. I was just reporting what happened on the radio.The insubordination began with some PC professors at UND. If Hakstol got fired for speaking out, they should have as well.
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You should go see a doctor. You really seem to have a hard time reading more than baaaaaaa.Ira no FB ? ? ?....that's as far as I made it before I needed a nap
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Wisconsin's is on this list, I'm trying to find Minnesota's.
- We will discourage all teams from bringing their American Indian mascots to UW Athletic facilities. Furthermore, we will request that any band not play war chants and that the cheerleaders/pompom squads also not use American Indian gestures, chants, and so forth.
- For all users of UW Athletic facilities, we will discourage planned events using an American Indian Mascot, symbol, names and activities if that use is disrespectful.
- The sale of athletic wear or other souvenirs with American Indian mascots or logos will be discouraged on the grounds of the University's athletic facilities.
- UW representatives to our conferences (Big Ten and WCHA) will present our policy to other members of the conference and the Board of Regents. They will convey to the conference the sensitivity of the use of such names and logos and ask the conference to consider appropriate policies. The intent of this presentation is to exert a leadership in our conferences and in the UW system which will lead institutions with such mascots and names to review the nature and uses of Native American names and symbols.
- Scheduling. During the regular season, UW Athletic Department will not schedule any team with a Native American mascot or nickname unless the team is a traditional rival or a conference member.
http://www.und.edu/o...ges/passed.html
UND may be able to play Wisconsin if AD Alvarez claims them as a traditional rival which is highly possible.
I believe that this has changed. They added the schools on the hostile and abusive list as schools that could not be scheduled unless a conference member. The Assistant AD from Wisconsin told Mr. Faison that they would not be able to play UND now that the nickname is back.
- We will discourage all teams from bringing their American Indian mascots to UW Athletic facilities. Furthermore, we will request that any band not play war chants and that the cheerleaders/pompom squads also not use American Indian gestures, chants, and so forth.
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The settlement doesn't mention a vote, so the NCAA never cared about whether the tribe voted. They weren't going to accept a tribal vote on the issue. It had to be the Tribal Council. And you are correct. It is too late. The NCAA was asked during the big meeting in August whether they would accept a change by Standing Rock. The NCAA said that the settlement specifically said that they had to have approval by November 30, 2010. That did not happen. It is too late. The NCAA will not accept UND using the Fighting Sioux nickname or logo. They are not going to back down or change their mind.That is what I would have thought. It has to be an honest to God tribal vote before the NCAA would even consider backing down. Even if that would happen, would they just say it's too late? That it was beyond the agreement period?
Sorry, but the NC$$ is full of asshats that don't play nice with others.
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Hak is as jammed up as anyone else right now.
Say "keep it" and he is effectively screwing every other of his coaching peers and athletic program at UND, including womens hockey, and ultimately his own when his calls to Minneapolis and Madison to schedule games go unanswered.Say "lose it" and the Chewey/Fetch/DaveK/ksixpack mindset will call for his head for not being for the name at all costs.Mr. Faison was on KNOX this morning. A caller told him he should have fired Hakstol after the e-mail, that's what would have happened in private business if someone was insubordinate. Faison told him that Universities don't work like a private business. He said that he had a meeting with Hakstol and did as much as he could. He also said that they came to an understanding during that meeting. He wouldn't elaborate any further.
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Getting one of the presidents to back UND wouldn't take a leader, it would take a miracle worker. The Big Sky is a club that has been stable for a long time. They have relationships with each other. And they work in an atmosphere of consensus building. Most decisions are made by a unanimous vote. Once a majority makes up its mind, it is very rare that another would rock the boat. You are expecting Dr. Kelley to go and cull one of the other presidents away from the herd. You want him to find a way to make that president go against the people that they have been working with for years, and plan to work with for years. All for the benefit of the new guy. The chances of that happening are very, very small. And that isn't a practical use of Dr. Kelley's time. He has an entire University to lead. Remember, his job is to lead the University of North Dakota, not lead the presidents of the Big Sky.It was unanimous.
The question is this...is Mr Kelley an effective leader if he can't get even one of the presidents to back us in the Big Sky?
Put all of the other rehtoric on the back burner and take it as a simple question.
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And I just pointed out that you have to support a minimum level to remain in Division I. You can't have just a hockey team and no other sports, even if some people would like to do that.
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The NCAA never cared whether Standing Rock voted or not. The settlement said it could be decided any way allowable in the Tribal Constitution. Then they wanted the decision sent to them in writing. The Standing Rock Tribal Constitution does not allow a vote on issues like this. The majority of states do not have a referendum and initiative system available to them. So getting Standing Rock to vote on the issue is meaningless to the NCAA. In addition, the NCAA told the North Dakota delegation last summer that the time period available for the tribes to give consent was done. Even if Standing Rock gives approval today, the NCAA would continue to have UND on sanctions because they didn't live up to the terms of the settlement. As far as the NCAA is concerned, the issue is done. They will not let UND use the nickname.Here is the Governor's e-mail address. The ONLY way this can end well is for Standing Rock to vote. E-mail the Gov. and tell him to get his ass to Standing Rock to speak with the elders. If they say no, the nickname has to go.
http://governor.nd.gov/contact-us
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And to remain a member of Division I you need to have a minimum number of sports spread between men and women and spread across all seasons. I would have to look it up to be sure, but I believe that it is a minimum of either 6 men and 8 women's sports or 7 and 7, with at least 1 sport for each gender in the fall, 1 in the spring and 1 in the winter. So there is a limit to how many "money losing" sports that can be cut.Schools all over the country are discussing eliminating sports. You only need to look at St Cloud State and their football program for something local.
dakota is correct about a couple examples of when other sports were bigger than hockey. As he said, history has a habit of repeating itself.
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The vote would be of all presidents except the school involved. So President Kelley would not vote on the issue.We can all agree that Mr. Fullerton said that it takes a unanamous vote from all 11 presidents of the Big Sky to kick us out. That is fact, so I propose one question for everyone both sides of the issue.
Wouldn't you think our university president, Mr. Kelly, would be forging partnerships and relationships with these presidents to assure this would not happen?
For God's sake he doesn't need all 11 in his favor, he just needs one! Is he so inept that he can't get one on his side? That is pretty piss poor if you ask me. He obviously doesn't have confidence he can because of his gloom and doom rehtoric. Mr. Kelley has said in the past that the Montana's look forward to the academic partnerships that they could persue. Well pursue them then...let's forge some relationships and partnerships. Our state and this University have a lot going for it so let's get together with these guys and make it happen.
I ask you this...if Tom Clifford was at the helm would our stance with the Big Sky be in peril? He would have at least one if not many of the Big Sky presidents in his favor. It's time for Mr. Kelley to lead and not follow!
Have you ever served on a board or committee? How many votes are unanimous? Almost all of them. Normally you end up with a group that feels very strongly about the issue, and may have a group that doesn't feel very strongly. The group that doesn't feel strongly about it just votes with the crowd. And it is very rare that a single person is going to stand up against the group unless they have a vested interest in the issue. Nobody is going to put their relationship with the group on the block for a new guy. And it is doubtful that even Clifford could prevent this problem with the Big Sky.
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At different times the basketball and football programs have both been bigger at UND than the hockey program. There is a good chance that one or both could reach that level again. Everything in sports goes in cycles.You're welcome. I'm sorry your love for other sports at UND will unfortunately never be as big as UND hockey. I"m sorry if you're a die hard football and/or basketball fan. Those sports will never be as big as hockey on campus or in the Grand Forks community. In addition, the university should cut back on certain sports soon. I'm looking at the baseball program, but hey, I'm not here to cause problems.
And even the hockey program is going to be affected by this issue. Losing historic rivals is going to hurt. It could hurt recruiting, it could hurt ticket sales. The NCAA has talked at times about returning the first round of the playoffs to the campus sites. UND would not be able to host those if they happen. The new hockey conference could adopt the same policy of limiting playoff hosting. Other conferences have adapted similar NCAA policies. The hockey program will be affected by this policy.
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Wisconsin and Minnesota have been long time rivals in hockey. They will be playing in another conference starting in 2013. Neither will play UND with the Fighting Sioiux nickname when they are in a different conference. Yes, the conference affiliation is huge. Losing Wisconsin and Minnesota as opponents in hockey will also be a large issue. And there is nothing to prevent more schools from adopting the same policy.God forbid North Dakota doesn't get to play Iowa and Minnesota in athletics. It'll be the end of UND's athletic program as we know it. Who is going to take UMN and Iowa's place since they've been yearly opponents and supporters of UND's program for so long . . . oh, wait . . .
I think UND will be just fine not playing institutions that they've haven't played in decades.
The bigger issue is conference affiliation.
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Faison talked to the AD's at both Wisconsin and Minnesota after the petitions were turned in this week. Both of them said that they would not be scheduling UND in any sport, including hockey, now that UND is back on the NCAA sanctions. The tentative deal to play Wisconsin in the future is off the table for now.REALLY?
Walter Dickey, chairman of the University of Wisconsin Athletic Board, says the Badgers would play the Sioux because of their previous games in hockey. “We have an exception in our policy for what we call a traditional opponent, and you’re a traditional opponent,” Dickey says of the Sioux. “The policy is under review. We’re considering stuff. One of the things we’re looking at is what the NCAA is doing.”
Minnesota would quickly do the same.
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Wisconsin told Faison on Wednesday or Thursday that the deal was off because the nickname is back. Both Wisconsin and Minnesota told Faison that they wouldn't be scheduling UND after they left the WCHA. Time will tell what happens.Brad Schlossman has some info about TENTATIVE non-conference games next season and beyond
@ Fairbanks Tournament (Alaska, Alaska-Anchorage)
@ Notre Dame
vs. Boston University
vs. Holy Cross
vs. Northern Michigan
@ College Hockey Showcase in Florida
and possibly a 4-year agreement with Wisconsin
It's great to see UND scheduling a variety of teams and I love the fact that UND is not afraid to travel anywhere.
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The Summit said they weren't interested in UND because of the nickname issue a couple of years ago. They became interested when it was announced that the nickname was dropped. Then there was the whole dustup over who said what and whethere UND pushed the Summit to complain about the nickname. The Summit is not an option any time soon. The MVFC was never an option. They didn't want South Dakota, but the Summit members pushed enough to get them in so they could keep them for the Summit. The MVFC isn't going to add UND for football.UND will be forced to drop athletics!
UND will continue to play Mayville St, Jamestown, and Minot St no matter what division they belong too.
This is a non point because D2 is still NCAA and the same sanction would apply, whether it is the NSIC or the MVFC/Summit.
Being Independent or being D2 would probably save the athletic department millions versus traveling all over the country getting to Big Sky destinations.
Being an independent for a new Division I school like UND would be suicide. How many home football games do you think they would get? Attendance would drop like a rock because the only home games would be Division II. Basketball would be the same. And at this point, going Division II would be about as effective.
Losing the ability to schedule schools like Minnesota and Wisconsin in hockey would start to hurt that program, too. Even if the NCHC doesn't do anything, it will become more difficult to recruit top talent in hockey if they can't play against the best. And attendance could start dropping at the Ralph.
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I have begun to think that the only hope of stopping the madness is to get some of the big name hockey alumni to come out on the side of changing the name. Or if Hakstol would admit his mistake. I'm not sure whether the nickname-at-all-cost crowd would finally believe them or turn on them, too. But hockey people may be the only ones that could reach the crowd that either doesn't understand, or doesn't believe, what is happening to the University.There doesn't have to be a HUGE change in public perception. If the vote was tomorrow it would be a close vote that could go either way. There is a long time between now and June, and a lot can happen but I truely believe that the crowd who supports the University of North Dakota has been silent and the Fighting Sioux crowd has been making all the noise cause they have had to draw attention to themselves and their cause. So your 50 or so UND friends on facebook aren't an accurate representation of the entire fanbase or the state of ND. Just as this forum or Bville aren't always an accurate description of the entire fanbases of each school. There is an entire group of alumni of the athletic dept who are ready to go spread the word and hopefully be a voice that is just as loud for the University if the state legislature and the SBoHE fail us once again.
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Talk to your friends at Bville. Many on that board have said they would sign the petitions/did sign the petitions. And they plan to vote for the law(s). That's been going on for months. This is the first time anyone on this board even mentioned the idea and you are ready to attack both tSic and UND. He just mentioned something that is within the realm of possibility, but very unlikely to happen. Try getting some of your revenge minded friends to back away and not make this farce worse than it is now.tread lightly sica we ndsu fans are voters also, i would not vote for the nickname because i can see the harm in it but it is posters like you that make it awful tempting. youre moderators should erase some of youre posts for the good of the school
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It's been a couple of years, but I usually stay down in Eagan. There are several places right off 35E like the Dakota Ridge Best Western and a Microtel. I have always gotten them for a good price. It is a straight drive up 35E to the X, usually takes me 10-15 minutes.Thank you very much Ice Arena Man. I'll check it out tomorrow
Any other ideas are welcome as well!
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I graduated from the University of North Dakota in 1982 as a proud supporter of the University of North Dakota Sioux. I'm pretty sure my screen name is historically accurate. If I were graduating at some time in the future and the school is using a different name I would probably incorporate that name into my screen name. Notice I used University of North Dakota first, and used it multiple times. That is the important name in the equation.When are some of you sheep going to take Sioux out of your online name ?
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The Big Sky Concern
in UND Nickname
Posted