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Yeah, that's weird, there isn't really much talk about the vote itself, only the discussions, maybe there will be more after today's meeting.

So if the tribes prove that they, as a whole, do not want UND to use the name you want UND to still fight to use it. That would be respecting, or not respecting wouldn't it?

Why would UND go to court and spend all that money if they weren't going to keep the name? and I totally disagree with you. I think that the school is much classier then to fight with the first amendmant if the tribes show that they are, as a whole, against it.

I wonder if that would hurt more? Do you think that Bonzers would lose more if they didn't allow smoking or by not allowing anyone under 21? I would think they would lose more by not allowing people under 21.

I think that the government probably has to step in though as people are dying at an extremely high rate of cancer caused by either smoking or second hand smoke. I wish, and it sounds like you do to, that bars would choose this on their own, but they don't seem to. Do you guys think that smokers will really fight it? Do you think that businesses will suffer? My thinking is that it will go on without much hassle in GF. Smaller town bars claim that it hurts their business. In GF I don't think it will. I'm guessing in a few years it will be an afterthought.

Very interesting that it was a 3-2 vote. Does anyone know who was all in attendance?

See that is where we differ. I know it is their right, but is it the right thing to do? It is my right to burn an american flag, but is it the right thing to do? I just don't want UND fighting for freedom of speech if the tribes, as a whole, are against the use of the name.

No, you never said they shouldn't respect the tribes, but you did bash my post saying that they should. That is what I've been saying the whole time. That IF the tribes show that their people don't want it, then UND should not fight it. So do you agree with me then? Or do you disagree. You are the one spinning, spinning on what you think! If you would re-read my first post you would realize that you were bashing it for the wrong reasons. Reasons I think you probably agree with. Then again, I'm not sure where you'll stand tomorrow

So how did this meeting go? Anyone go? What came out of it? Will they meet again?

I'm not saying they are taking the tribes to court. I'm saying that if the tribes do not want UND to use the name, as a whole, that UND should not fight the issue anymore. Obviously you feel they should not respect the tribes even if they show that a majority of their people do not want UND to use the name. I think that is classless. And obviously it does involve the tribes. As was shown with the removal of FSU and Utah from the list. Why were they removed? BECAUSE THE TRIBES ARE NOT AGAINST THE USE OF THE NAME Is that involvment enough for you?

So let me get this straight. If the tribes come out and say that they, as a whole, do not want UND to use the name, you want UND to fight the decision in court? That is what my original post was that you bashed, so I'm assuming that's what you feel.

HERE IS WHAT I'M SAYING: If the tribes come out and say that they, as a whole, don't want UND to use the name, and they can show that they have opened it up for discussion within the tribes and given everyone a chance to speak, then I hope UND gives up the fight. If the tribes, as a whole, don't want UND using the name then I don't want them to either. In the past it's seemed that there were just a few vocal minorities talking, if they can show that this is the feeling of the majority then I would want UND to respect the wishes of the tribes. If UND does fight the wishes of the tribes and the NCAA ruling in court they will lose a lot of respect from a lot of people I would think. I would lose a lot of respect. I would not be proud. I would not give to the university. Some of you obviously feel that UND should fight this to the bitter end. That's fine. I don't respect that though. If indeed there is a tribe who does support the use of the name, then I would want UND to fight the decision by the NCAA.

Yes PCM. Both are your right. The only similarities they have.

As far as the smoking ban I like it. And I agree with you that it needs to be across the board. Who cares if people feel they need to smoke. Go sit out in the 30 below winter and smoke, I don't want to breath it in. My feeling is that in 10 years people will be saying, "I can't believe you used to be able to smoke inside buildings" I used to think about that as I sat at Hyslop for b-ball games. People actually used to just sit there smoking cigerettes during the games. GROSS!

Sorry, but how do this: "I feel they should fight this in the courts because the "Fighting Sioux" nickname has been the face of UND Athletics since the 1930's. I grew up following the Fighting Sioux and it would not be the same if the sports teams played under a different name" and this: "Afterall, it is just a name. It does not change the tradition, history, and pride of its alumni and student athletes." say the same thing? They are the exact opposite. I didn't post the time and date? You've totally switched sides of the argument. Not sure why a date is needed. You can continue to try to squirm your way out of it and that's fine. I'm done with that argument, as it's obvious that you don't know what side you're on. The reason I'm pointing this out is because you seem to switch sides just for the point of arguing. I could care less if people poke holes in my point. I don't want UND to fight the tribes, like Mafia said. If you do that's your right. It's also your right to fly a confederate flag and join the KKK. Do so if you please. If UND fights the tribes in court then I will never go to a game again and will never donate a dime to the school, as that would be pure classless. You may disagree and say that they should. That's fine, but please don't switch sides of the argument just to disagree with me. I think Mafia is right. You are saying they should fight the NCAA. I'm saying they should NOT fight the tribes. So you probably shouldn't have blasted my original post.

OK, so please pick one: or That's fine that you don't agree with me, but please take one stance or the other and don't just argue for the sake of arguing. You have been contradicting yourself all day and then just spinning what you say to try and get out of it. I don't feel that UND should fight the decision in courts IF the tribes say that they don't want UND to use the name. I realize that the tribes don't "own" the name, but I would not give any money to UND ever if they were to fight the decision of the tribes in court. This is based on the tribes showing proof that the majority of members agree with their decision. Without that I would have to make up my own mind.

Folks, this is what I'm trying to say. If the tribes unitedly (with proof) do not want the name, then I feel that UND should respect their wishes. Some people want UND to fight tooth and nail through the courts to keep the name. If the tribes that we are honoring come out and say (with proof that this is how the majority of the tribe feels) that they don't want UND to use it then how can we fight to keep it? Sure, if it is only 4 guys making noise and the rest of the tribal people like the name it should be fought. But we will probably not know this unless we build some sort of good standing relationship with them. I hope the meeting today starts a bond between the tribes and the athletic department and both can compromise and come out with many winners instead of a winner and a loser.

The Oklahoma tribe DOES support the use of the name.