Longtime fan
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Posts posted by Longtime fan
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2 hours ago, jdub27 said:
Year-End Massey Ratings
2008 28
2009 40
2010 48
2011 36
2012 35
2013 68
2014 64
2015 32
2016 21
2017 43
2018 27
2019 21
2020 6*
2021 14
2022 14
2023 15The continuous repeating that things are a disaster isn't reflected by any hard data. And Mussman vs. Bubba is a hilarious comparison despite the different challenges both had to work with.
It's clear the next step is to continuously win playoff games and get the rankings into the single digits but the program as a whole has continued to take steps forward. Easy to be jaded when the two closest schools to you happen to be in your conference and also easily two of the top programs in the country over the last 15 years.
No one is arguing this isn't an important year for a whole bunch of reasons. But some of the suggestions are so far from being based in reality, starting to think half this board is made up of ndsu accounts just having fun at UND's expense.Another question. This hard data Massey rating thing. How many playoff wins did mussman win and how many has bubba won ?
* just a little reminder that Mussman teams weren’t eligible *#disaster
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18 minutes ago, shep said:
I believe that if Danny didn’t go none of them would have
Possibly. But they did leave and we are left with bubba. Wow.
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4 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:
As the Massey rankings suggest, UND is about ~15th in the FCS and I agree with that. But there are numerous concerns suggesting that UND’s ceiling under Bubba is around 15th (current coach exodus, no significant road wins, lack of leadership, mediocre recruiting, no playoff wins, etc.) and 2024 is likely a season of regression. NDSU and SDSU‘s success puts pressure on UND, yes, but that still doesn’t excuse extending a coach like Bubba year after year. In fact, NDSU and SDSU’s success should give Bubba less leniency, not more.
15th in FCS could be looked at as 1st or 2nd in D2. While 15 sounds good I think most that follow the FCS ….that won’t cut it. So really I don’t care if und has a Massey rating of 3. Massey ratings do not automatically give a team a championship. Talent …competent coaching staff …etc will get a team to the championship. We have bubba. Bubba can’t do it for so many reasons. We all know it. Assistants know it. It is such a rinse and repeat program. My expectations have been lowered to the point that I now I have hope we can win a road game
Should that really be an expectation? This is why it hurts. Bubba has completely drained me from excitement for this program.
I mentioned this earlier but all the “kings “ of FCS are up in our neighborhood…..ndsu sdsu Montana Montana st. They are all doing it. Hell even USD is making waves. Und just doing und things. Bubba can’t sell this program and talent goes elsewhere. Recruiting has been mouse quiet for ages . Someone like Kalen could sell and can produce. Und has great facilities. Great campus. Great school. Horrible leadership and direction. If und installed a young and talented staff… they could sell UNd over Ndsu or sdsu. If the recruits are willing to go there they could go here. It’s all in proximity just stuck with a useless coach. And of course money. Money money money. It’s hard for me to believe that a flagship like und can’t pay a football staff in equal to any surrounding college.
With Joe leaving …that just broke the camels back for me. The guy is good very good. the only staffer ,imo, that was worth a damn. I was neither here of there with freund, jake or any others. Joe is very capable .. now he’s gone. But good for him and the others escaping this mediocre pit.
I am just beyond frustrated
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12 minutes ago, Irish said:
Kalen didn't have the old school group of Bubba supporters lobbying hard for him - they had influence with the administration. This disaster is mostly on them.
Exactly. Good ol boys club doing what they do best.
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4 minutes ago, Hawkster said:
Mussman was NOT a bad recruiter. We had Kenny Goliday who lit things up pretty good as a true freshman and then went FBS when Muss got the axe. Muss just didn't know what to do with some of his better recruits.
Never said that once. In fact quite the opposite. He brought in by far better players than bubba. I also said it was more difficult for him to recruit based on what he had to work with. Also said bubbas best teams were with mussmans recruits. Not sure where you got that from ?
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13 minutes ago, jdub27 said:
Year-End Massey Ratings
2008 28
2009 40
2010 48
2011 36
2012 35
2013 68
2014 64
2015 32
2016 21
2017 43
2018 27
2019 21
2020 6*
2021 14
2022 14
2023 15The continuous repeating that things are a disaster isn't reflected by any hard data. And Mussman vs. Bubba is a hilarious comparison despite the different challenges both had to work with.
It's clear the next step is to continuously win playoff games and get the rankings into the single digits but the program as a whole has continued to take steps forward. Easy to be jaded when the two closest schools to you happen to be in your conference and also easily two of the top programs in the country over the last 15 years.
No one is arguing this isn't an important year for a whole bunch of reasons. But some of the suggestions are so far from being based in reality, starting to think half this board is made up of ndsu accounts just having fun at UND's expense.Couple questions before I join your side. You almost have me
-For you and your group …what is a requirement for a successful year?
-For an upcoming season what should be some expectations . Never mind. Just name an one expectation
-Are you and the crew ok with losing every single road game to a rated team every single season?
-Does bubba show great leadership?
-does bubba show confidence?
-when talking hard data …does that include hard stats or just hard Massey ratings?
-does it hurt inside when expectations are lowered every year ?
-when other people are continuously repeating things are a disaster …is that fake news ?
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11 minutes ago, jdub27 said:
Year-End Massey Ratings
2008 28
2009 40
2010 48
2011 36
2012 35
2013 68
2014 64
2015 32
2016 21
2017 43
2018 27
2019 21
2020 6*
2021 14
2022 14
2023 15The continuous repeating that things are a disaster isn't reflected by any hard data. And Mussman vs. Bubba is a hilarious comparison despite the different challenges both had to work with.
It's clear the next step is to continuously win playoff games and get the rankings into the single digits but the program as a whole has continued to take steps forward. Easy to be jaded when the two closest schools to you happen to be in your conference and also easily two of the top programs in the country over the last 15 years.
No one is arguing this isn't an important year for a whole bunch of reasons. But some of the suggestions are so far from being based in reality, starting to think half this board is made up of ndsu accounts just having fun at UND's expense.Baby steps jdub baby steps. Need to start with winning a $@&?! playoff game before the word continuously can be addressed . And no I don’t consider the ridiculous covid year a true legit season. Let’s start with that.
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3 minutes ago, jdub27 said:Year-End Massey Ratings
2008 28
2009 40
2010 48
2011 36
2012 35
2013 68
2014 64
2015 32
2016 21
2017 43
2018 27
2019 21
2020 6*
2021 14
2022 14
2023 15The continuous repeating that things are a disaster isn't reflected by any hard data. And Mussman vs. Bubba is a hilarious comparison despite the different challenges both had to work with.
It's clear the next step is to continuously win playoff games and get the rankings into the single digits but the program as a whole has continued to take steps forward. Easy to be jaded when the two closest schools to you happen to be in your conference and also easily two of the top programs in the country over the last 15 years.
No one is arguing this isn't an important year for a whole bunch of reasons. But some of the suggestions are so far from being based in reality, starting to think half this board is made up of ndsu accounts just having fun at UND's expense.You’re right. I feel much better now with the bubba led direction this program is taking. Glad you changed my mind
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14 minutes ago, LH Golfer said:
Should announce now his retirement after the 2024 season.
Should have never been hired
Bubble 22-21 pre und in D2
Kalen 67-3 three champions one runner up in NAIA - young guy with “spark” and connection to the generation
Easy call right ?
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2 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:
I don't see us going back to Mussman levels of incompetence. But I also don't think we are going to get to the next level with Bubba.
So I did a little research on both mussman and bubba. Mussman was 31-34 at und. Bubba is 61-50 at und. Mussmans best year was 8-3 while be named coach of the year bubbas best is 9-3 while being named coach of the year. All the rest of the seasons were average to bad for both. I would say bubbas best team was the 2015 seasons. The roster was filled with mussmans recuits.
If you look at what both had to start with ….Bubba had much more. Again. Mussman took over day 1 for the D1 era. He worked namely with D2 guys. He had to recruit hard to get some talent here. And as we know it takes football recruits usually more than a couple months to get D1 ready. Bubba has much better facilities. Bubba had the big sky and mvfc to sell recruits to. Much more stable and prestige. FCS was also much stronger back then. So many schools have moved up that we’re competing for top dog. Now there’s a handful of decent teams.
To be clear …I’m not advocating that mussman was better than bubba. I’m advocating both were/are horrible head coaches. Bubbas firsr 4 years were a plus but now it’s like und is right back to 2012 but more frustrating because they have resources and knowledge that they didn’t have at the beginning of the D1 era. Bubbas sell to und is light years ahead of what mussman had to work with.
Beyond frustrating
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35 minutes ago, F'n Hawks said:
I’m not happy with how things are going right now, but that’s a ridiculous statement. Do we have to remind everyone how much of a mess it was when Muss was fired?
Of course Muss was a mess. Which part was ridiculous tho ? He was an extremely bad coach that had to steer UND into d1 with having upgrade to get better recruits, probation period, initial D1 scheduling …etc. complete mess with different circumstances. Bubba has no excuse. He turned it around initially with Muss recruits…well established in D1 at that point. Yet he keeps getting worse as the FCS keeps getting weaker
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1 minute ago, Goon said:
Joe is gone. Kelly is in the know.
Very unfortunate. Very unfortunate
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What is going through Bubbas head right now ?
- I have built a legacy here and not leaving it ?
- und football has no chance to survive without me ?Come on Bubba!! Do the university, the city, the fans and the players a huge favor and get the hell out ! You have sent this program back further than Muss had. At least Muss could use the “ I took the program on a maiden voyage into D1” response. You Bubba…on the other hand can take the “ yeah I took Muss’ recruits, sprouted some new life into the program and sunk it to the ocean floor like titanic” response.
You claim to love this university and program. By you staying …shows neither. Your sunk! So many of us faithful have turned away. You bring nothing to the table. Blah,boring, predictable are some of the adjectives that can describe you. It’s time to step aside. What do you really have for expectations next year ? Honestly. You know damn sure you will not win a playoff game with very slightest odds of even making the playoffs. So why stay and have the program fall further ?
If the rumor is true that Joe is leaving that one hurts. Bad ! I really liked Joe. He was the one guy that had no UND connections and desire to win and had football competency. He turned the OL into a fantastic unit.
Yet Bubba remains. Sad sad
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There is a part of me that is smiling about the Landry switch. A UND guy going to Ndsu. Lol. Can you imagine the hate he already feels. He will be given zero chance to succeed . They will feast upon him endlessly. Any small non perfection of any sort will be highlighted for weeks. ZERO leash. Their fans know what und exes have done or more importantly not done. Good luck Jake
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How stacked is the ex UND player /assistant cupboard ?
Which ex und player or assistant will it be to take over OC
If the rumors are true about assistants not being done jumping ship …which ex und personal will take over their duties?
Looks like most alumni are losing interest in returning. Can’t blame them. So just wondering who would want to come back as und only looks that direction
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12 minutes ago, UND-FB-FAN said:Definitely appears that way now. The situation is so horrid for UND football right now that UND alums are ditching Bubba left and right for conference rivals. This is an indirect reflection on the horrible state of UND football, and both Bubba and Chaves are to blame, although some “supporters” likely enabled this a few years ago by sticking their neck out for the “good guy” Bubba. I think everyone can “see clearly” now. You can’t run a program when even the most diehard UND/Grand Forks guys are willing to abandon ship. The house absolutely needs to be completely cleaned out: Culture reset.
Agreed on a complete culture reset.
Let’s check out some culture . Go back to the two finalist for the head coaching position in 2013.
You have Bubba . 22-21 head coaching record in D2.
You have Kalen. 67-3 in NAIA. Three championships, runner up and semi in 5 years of head coaching . Not to mention he beat D1 und in grand forks.
In typical UND fashion….you have to choose ex UNDer. Obvious call for administration. Can hire him for cheap and keep him leashed for years.
2003. Ndsu and sdsu make a bold move to go D1. UND defers . We are witnessing the consequences.
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8 hours ago, Irish said:
I'm frustrated too - But I don't blame Bubba as much as the AD - Bubba is always going to be Bubba. To extend him after a 5-6 season shows how much the Athletic Department values excellence. We have had weak leadership from the AD and the UND administration for far too long. Overall this is as low as I have seen the overall athletic programs.
Chavez deserves a ton of blame yes but it was very apparent bubba was not cut out to be a head coach even during his Duluth days. He was hired here because he was an ex UNDer and would accept low pay to stay forever. Not because of his great track record. Chavez can’t be blamed for hiring him.
Why would Danny leave now? Chavez? Danny bleeds Kelly green. He knows that sticking around Bubba gets him absolutely nowhere. Assistants have to move on from this bubba clown show to further themselves. Sure pay is the most obvious reason why people go elsewhere but Danny was fine with it for as long as he was here. He made a great move to leave bubba and learn the correct way of coaching. He left bubba not Chavez imo
As for Landry ….he can stick it. Going to “that college” after committing to UND just weeks before speaks a lot about his character. Sorry to all that know him but this is a very bad look for him. I wasn’t that excited about Landry but what a low blow to your former team and town.
Now what ex-UNDer is going to accept the job?
My thoughts on bubba and Chavez are on par to a movie from 1994 that starred Jim Carrey and Jeff Daniel’s
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3 hours ago, Teeder11 said:
We've adopted the Fargo narrative that COVID had an out-sized impact on the FCS blue bloods versus the rest of the field, thus it should not count, or at the very least it should be referenced with an asterisk. Oh, and Trey Lance.
Honestly ..who gives a damn what the Fargo narrative is.
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3 hours ago, DL Sioux said:
So now we aren't counting the 2020 playoffs?
I for one will never count a season where football begins play in February and most teams don’t compete as legit. Many team have recovery time during that stretch. Recruiting. Weights. Coaching changes….etc…to prepare for the legit August start season. So yes …I do not count the ridiculous covid year as legit. If you and others would like too that’s fine by me.
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11 hours ago, fightingsioux4life said:I think we should wait until we've seen the offense for a few games before going negative. Besides, the offense isn't the problem on this team. We all know what needs to get better.
My negativity resides with me full time as long as bubba is still coach. I have invested many years and a lot of money into this football program over numerous decades. Bubba is not a head coach. He is still here so I expect the same BS outcome next year. No expectations except that they can’t win the big road game, can’t win a playoff game, same boring pressers , same lack of of motivation…etc . However … he will win one meaningful game at home that will keep fans thinking they turned over a new stone…..rinse and repeat. How many UND fans really think Bubba can go to Fargo and win next year ? Truly believe that ? Not happening. So bringing in another ex UNDer doesn’t excite me. If Jake can get UND to actually win a meaningful game on the road or in the playoffs I will be smiling. But “deer in the headlights “ Bubba is still here so I doubt that happens.
I think it might be best for me to step away from the season tickets for awhile like I did with this board for 3 years. Step away and breathe. I love UND and love UND football. I also wear my heart on my sleeve with this program. And right now it’s not healthy for me. Wish I could be like more on this board and simply be ok with being so average but I cant. It hurts.
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1 hour ago, jdub27 said:
So you admit you don't actually have a clue then complain anyway?
He hasn't had a connection to UND since he stepped off the field (2010) and graduated (2011). Went and got plenty of experience elsewhere and has a very solid resume. Better than what Danny had when he took over. Better than NDSU's when he was hired. Doesn't guarantee he'll be better or worse than either, but to blindly say you don't know anything about him other than he has a tie to UND and use that complain seems pretty odd.If you read my post in its entirety you will see my “clue” is that bubba still runs this complacency train. 10 years prove that.
The ex UND’ers have won ZERO playoff games in D1. So that is the reasoning for my non excitement. Does that make sense ?But you might of noticed I also typed ..Hope it turns out great. Not a complaint. Hope he can bring UND a single playoff win. Does that make sense ?
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On 1/18/2024 at 1:05 PM, Siouxperman8 said:
Landry is official
Well …here we are again ….another UND connection. Had Jake not accepted the gig what ex UND’er would have it have been? Hard to get too excited for this hire. Hope it turns out great but bubba is still steering the boat so the complacency is still well in tact. Not sure on Jake’s credentials but rest assured ….he will most definitely fall victim to mediocrity. If he has/had any resemblance of being an aggressor…throw that out in the dumpster. Not until “oh gosh oh golly “ is gone will UND ever be competing for the gold.
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The only good thing about the DeBoer news is that we have Bubba
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12 minutes ago, F'n Hawks said:
Sounds like DeBoer to Alabama…
Great guy. He will keep the “elephants” rolling.
2023 Non-UND FCS thread
in Football
Posted
Nice to have the comps with peer programs
PAY FOR 3 COACHES ENDOWMENT
UNI $618,000 $163 million
Illi st $584,800 $197 million
NDSU. $570,400 $457 million
USD. $560000 $329 million
SDSU. $540000 $213 million
YSU $504000 $276 million
Mizz St. $493000 $193 million
SIU. $460000 $190 million
UND $447000 $352 million
Ind st. $413000 $70 million
Murray. $412000 $91 million
Can someone with college endowment knowledge please explain this? When adding up the HC, OC and DC ….UNDs total combined salaries for those three ranks 9th out of 11 programs in MVFC. Yet ….UND is only behind Ndsu in the MVFC with endowment dollars. Clearly UND does very well in donations. I keep hearing on this site for the naggers to put forth more money to help. Und seems to have to no problem with that so I don’t think that blanket argument is valid. But since I am not familiar with endowment $ can someone explain to me how exactly does the university determine where to allocate the donations ? Does allocating to the FB program rank towards the bottom every year ? Or at all ? Basing argument off hard numbers which include coaching salaries to endowment intake and compared those to the other 10 peer programs in the MVFC….und is sadly far behind. Again …I would like more insight of how endowment distribution works before going to deep into this.
Where I’m going with this is ….can UND pay up for the “right” coaches for the next try ? Quite honestly und is paying Bubba about $200000 more than he deserves so I wont argue that angle . Just wondering for future hires if it’s a possibility? If it isn’t a possibility…..UND football is stuck in the mud. To hire a good candidate to move and live in GF will require more dollars than what the peers are paying. As what we have seen for years now …the high majority or percentage of hires have Und connections. Hasn’t worked. Need new blood. In order to get new blood …the salaries have to be raised significantly to peek interest.