Jesus camp

[PCM]

I know that one can't leave their religious beliefs behind when it comes to making public policy. I just don't think that that belief should be the end of the discussion.

It isn't.

[star2city]

It seems to me that extremism from any religion is something to avoid. Most religions teach that it is the way to the truth and light. So if you take that to the extreme (which isn't hard to imagine IMO) it would be easy to see these kids growing up to be on the violent side.

One of the clips I saw of the camp had a teacher saying that she wants the kids to be ready to "Lay their life down for Jesus". Now if she means in a martyr type situation that's one thing. But is a child going to be able to distinguish what may be a metaphor from the literal meaning of what she said?

GaryP:

In a previous posting, I had stated that violence seems much less likely to occur in Christian schools than in public schools. Tragically, this week proved me in error. But it would seem that the events of this week would give you some answers regarding your concerns:

The girl recovering in Hershey told her family Roberts warned the girls he would sexually assault them, Fisher said.

That led another girl, 13-year-old Marian Fisher, who eventually was killed, to begin talking to him. Marian is no relation to Amos Fisher.

She said that she would rather die than be molested and that Roberts should just shoot her, Amos Fisher said. She led the younger girls in prayer.

"They asked him to come up and pray with them," Fisher said. "He said, 'God and I are enemies. God and I don't get along any more. I hate him, and he hates me.'"

Roberts told the girls it would be a good thing for them to pray.

"At that point, they were giving themselves up to being killed," Fisher said.

Marian asked Roberts to shoot her first and spare the younger children.

"She was very brave," Amos Fisher said.

York (Pa.) Daily Record

[GaryP]

Yes It certainly was tragic and at the same time inspiring if the story about the little girl giving herself up for the good of others is true whether it was in fact futile or not.

But IMO, there seems to be a vast difference between the Amish way of life and what I see on the Jesus Camp video. There are quite a few Amish here in Ohio also and I've never seen them behave or speak in any manner similar to the militaristic style that was on display at the Devils Lake camp.

Of course there are also examples of non-Christians acting in an altruistic way. Dr. ML King for instance learned about non-violent demonstrations from Ghandi, a Hindu. And he came back to the USA to put change into effect amongst people who found reasons in the Bible to think that God endorsed slavery.

Pat Tillman who gave up his NFL career to fight (and die) in Afghanistan was an atheist.

And of course, what do we know of the perpetrator? It sounds as if he had a terrible guilt over an act he may have commited many years ago involving young relatives. There is apparently no proof of this. Perhaps he was mentally ill and only imagined he did it. He is said to have been mad at God for his infant daughter's death.

If he didn't believe in a god in the first place, would he have still vented his anger in the manner he did? Who knows.

In the end. I just don't think that belief in a higher power or Jesus in particular, is the deciding factor of who is a good person and who isn't. It's within each of us to be one or the other whether religious or not. But if one takes the road of believing too literally in any holy book, trouble can ensue.

[PCM]

But if one takes the road of believing too literally in any holy book, trouble can ensue.

Their are many different beliefs and value systems that when taken to the extreme can lead to trouble. You don't have to be a religious zealot to be a dangerous fanatic.

[GaryP]

I could not agree more. Zealotry of any kind can be dangerous.

[GaryP]

I just saw this today;

[For the last three years, Fischer has rented a campground in Devils Lake from the Assemblies of God, one of the largest national churches in the Pentecostal movement. But Fischer said she was asked not to return after vandals broke windows and caused $1,500 in damage at the campground in October.

Fischer said she has asked the distributors of "Jesus Camp" not to release the film in Bismarck because she fears for the safety of the 70 children who attend The Fire Center.

Grady, the co-director of "Jesus Camp," said the negative reaction to the film "has weighed a little heavy on our hearts."

"Not that we had anything to do with it, but [the campground] wasn't getting vandalized before the film and it was after it, and we need to acknowledge that," Grady said.]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nati...esuscamp08.html

As much as this type of evangelism scares me, I am deeply troubled by the reaction it caused. It would be interesting to know who did the vandalizing. Guess it might be just another indicator as to the strong reactions religion can cause.

[southpaw]

Guess it might be just another indicator as to the strong reactions religion can cause.

getting rid of religion is undoubtedly the decision that needs to be made here. without religion, these acts never would have happened.