Sioux Baseball Swept

[CougarHater1993]

Anyone see the games today in GF? UMD swept UND. That shouldn't happen

[beersong]

Don't forget tUMD won two additional games yesterday against UND in Duluth.

[USA Hockey]

Another reason to cut the program if we move DI.

[siouxrunner]

Another reason to cut the program if we move DI.

Kupchella: Tom, I think we're making the right move here. I know the baseball team has a long history and tradition here at UND, but right now, with the move to division I, we don't have the funding to keep the team going.

Buning: I agree. It's going to be hard, but even if I have to call each and every baseball alumnus and tell them myself that we are doing this for the health of the athletic department, I'll do it. As you know Chuck, we need to get our feet under us to be successful. The baseball team takes a lot of money out of our budget. Their travel budget alone could be outrageous for the first few years...

Kupchella: And don't forget, they lost a few games to Duluth in late April last season.

Buning: You're right, I'd forgotten about that series sweep. I guess we have no choice but to cut the program.

Come on USA Hockey, do you really think that a couple losses to a sub-par team is a reason to cut the baseball program? The decision will be made by weighing costs, scholarship levels between men's and women's sports, facilities, possible benefits, and conference affiliation. I seriously doubt that a few losses to Duluth will factor in to a decision on the future of the baseball program.

[katohtr]

Another reason to cut the program if we move DI.

I've read a lot of your posts both here and on Bisonville and I have to say that this one is pretty out of character for you. This post has ZERO substance to it and sounds like it came from a Bison troll. Not only is there no substance, but to suggest that a couple losses (or a bad season for that matter) be additional ammo to cut this program is absolutely asinine. This team is only 2 years removed from a trip to the NCAA Regional Tournament (which is a quite the task to get there) and tying the school record for wins.

Yes-if they go DI they'll have monetary issues just every other 2nd/3rd tier sport at UND will....so why do they have to be on the chopping block first? Why not take a look at softball or golf--programs that haven't won anything since the Reagan administration before you cut a program with as much history and tradition as this program.

Bad form USA Hockey!! Bad form!

[beersong]

Come on USA Hockey, do you really think that a couple losses to a sub-par team is a reason to cut the baseball program?

"Sub-par"? Both squads are pretty "sub-par" if you ask me:

UND: 10-23 (2-10 NCC)

tUMD: 11-23 (5-7 NCC)

It's clear UNO and MSU are heads and shoulders above the rest of the NCC.

And I think most college baseball teams operate at a loss - that's a given. My friends on tUMD baseball team often comment that they "pay to play baseball" here. Even after fundraising relentlessly, they still foot their own money to pay for things. They just love to play baseball. It's definitely a sport that is on the low end of the totem pole at most universities.

[katohtr]

"Sub-par"? Both squads are pretty "sub-par" if you ask me:

UND: 10-23 (2-10 NCC)

tUMD: 11-23 (5-7 NCC)

It's clear UNO and MSU are heads and shoulders above the rest of the NCC.

And I think most college baseball teams operate at a loss - that's a given. My friends on tUMD baseball team often comment that they "pay to play baseball" here. Even after fundraising relentlessly, they still foot their own money to pay for things. They just love to play baseball. It's definitely a sport that is on the low end of the totem pole at most universities.

You've hit on some good points here....although anything can happen in the conference tourney (especially now that all 6 teams are invited this year), MSU or UNO will run away with the title. Not sure how the NCC got so "down" this year, but that is definetely the case.

You're also right about the "pay to play" comment. Sports such as baseball really only have enough money to cover their travel, equipment, meals.....the necessities. Guys here had to buy hats, undershirts, work-out gear....ect. They also have had to fundraise every year for a few extra bucks to do something that just about every other program on campus has the luxury of doing. When you look at the big picture it really isn't all that fair that baseball has to do all these things just to "keep up with the Jones'" when programs like volleyball have a "butt-load" of money (7-8 full rides for about 15 girls), and more free stuff than you can shake a stick at. They were, for a long time, a non-revenue sport just like baseball, softball, golf, track.....yet they had second-string girls on a 85-90% ride! You know what a second-string outfielder at UND gets? MAYBE $500.....for the entire YEAR! That'll barely buy your books. HELLO TITLE IX!

The point I'm trying to make is that cutting UND baseball (which I'm not even sure is in question right now, I'm still ranting about some earlier posts) doesn't make any sense to me at all. How can the program be expensive enough to cut?

I know for sure it won't be because they lost to UMD.....granted they're not a huge force in the NCC or when they were in the NSIC...and UND probably should win games against a new conference opponent (no offense beersong). But UMD took 3 of 4 from a decent UND team last year AND made a NCAA Regional appearance in 2003, so we should probably start cutting them some slack. When they start getting swept by SCSU....then we can crucify em'.

[USA Hockey]

Kupchella: Tom, I think we're making the right move here. I know the baseball team has a long history and tradition here at UND, but right now, with the move to division I, we don't have the funding to keep the team going.

Buning: I agree. It's going to be hard, but even if I have to call each and every baseball alumnus and tell them myself that we are doing this for the health of the athletic department, I'll do it. As you know Chuck, we need to get our feet under us to be successful. The baseball team takes a lot of money out of our budget. Their travel budget alone could be outrageous for the first few years...

Kupchella: And don't forget, they lost a few games to Duluth in late April last season.

Buning: You're right, I'd forgotten about that series sweep. I guess we have no choice but to cut the program.

Come on USA Hockey, do you really think that a couple losses to a sub-par team is a reason to cut the baseball program? The decision will be made by weighing costs, scholarship levels between men's and women's sports, facilities, possible benefits, and conference affiliation. I seriously doubt that a few losses to Duluth will factor in to a decision on the future of the baseball program.

Well sorry for my brief statement, but I strongly feel with a move to DI it would be smart to cut the baseball program. First off, as you can see the statement says ANOTHER. A loss to Duluth isn't the only reason I think it should go with a D1 move.

[USA Hockey]

You've hit on some good points here....although anything can happen in the conference tourney (especially now that all 6 teams are invited this year), MSU or UNO will run away with the title. Not sure how the NCC got so "down" this year, but that is definetely the case.

You're also right about the "pay to play" comment. Sports such as baseball really only have enough money to cover their travel, equipment, meals.....the necessities. Guys here had to buy hats, undershirts, work-out gear....ect. They also have had to fundraise every year for a few extra bucks to do something that just about every other program on campus has the luxury of doing. When you look at the big picture it really isn't all that fair that baseball has to do all these things just to "keep up with the Jones'" when programs like volleyball have a "butt-load" of money (7-8 full rides for about 15 girls), and more free stuff than you can shake a stick at. They were, for a long time, a non-revenue sport just like baseball, softball, golf, track.....yet they had second-string girls on a 85-90% ride! You know what a second-string outfielder at UND gets? MAYBE $500.....for the entire YEAR! That'll barely buy your books. HELLO TITLE IX!

The point I'm trying to make is that cutting UND baseball (which I'm not even sure is in question right now, I'm still ranting about some earlier posts) doesn't make any sense to me at all. How can the program be expensive enough to cut?

I know for sure it won't be because they lost to UMD.....granted they're not a huge force in the NCC or when they were in the NSIC...and UND probably should win games against a new conference opponent (no offense beersong). But UMD took 3 of 4 from a decent UND team last year AND made a NCAA Regional appearance in 2003, so we should probably start cutting them some slack. When they start getting swept by SCSU....then we can crucify em'.

If we stay D2 it's fine to keep the program, but with a DI move it just isn't realistic to me.

[beersong]

If we stay D2 it's fine to keep the program, but with a DI move it just isn't realistic to me.

You do have a point here. Think of the travel costs for a D1 baseball team around here. Nebraska and Minnesota (and maybe a couple others) are the only ones within a bus ride away. Wisconsin doesn't even have a baseball team if I remember correctly. Travel costs are hard enough to cover as a D2 team bussing around Minnesota and North Dakota - I think it would be virtually impossible to fund at the D1 level. If a university the size of Wisconsin can't fund a team how would one expect UND to?

[legend334]

yea that 60,000 dollar a year budget baseball has it killing the department...and if UND is like NDSU...their baseball budget wont go up....unless they play every game on the road and get a gurantee!!!!!

[beersong]

Oh yeah I forgot that NDSU is a baseball D1 team. How the heck do they afford that? Do the bigger schools pay them to come play at their place like in football?

[katohtr]

If we stay D2 it's fine to keep the program, but with a DI move it just isn't realistic to me.

Why is it not realistic? I'm aware of the bumps and bruises NDSU's baseball team has experienced over the past season and a half and I'm assuming that we would go through something similiar with a jump. As time passes I believe that this will change--they'll eventually get good enough to be competitive at that level. Zig has managed to do an excellent job putting a pretty decent product on the field for the time that he's been there--and I believe with a DI status, he'd could only do better. Long story short here, I think that we could (with time) be competitive.

NDSU, SDSU, AND UNC have been able to keep their programs, and they've been running all over the U.S. trying to get games in, getting beat BADLY for the better part of two seasons--with no talk of cuts...so you can't tell me that it's not affordable. Also, we would most likely join up with the former NCC members....so there's half a conference already.

I'm only antsy about this because I played in this program and would be heartbroken to see it go. I understand that from a monetary standpoint, it may make it difficult to continue pumping money into a non-revenue sport--it's apparent that it's tough already--evident by all the budget cuts...but this program has been around FOREVER--and as I already said, if these other Universities in the identical situations can make the jump and keep baseball in tact, I don't see why we can't.

[USA Hockey]

Why is it not realistic? I'm aware of the bumps and bruises NDSU's baseball team has experienced over the past season and a half and I'm assuming that we would go through something similiar with a jump. As time passes I believe that this will change--they'll eventually get good enough to be competitive at that level. Zig has managed to do an excellent job putting a pretty decent product on the field for the time that he's been there--and I believe with a DI status, he'd could only do better. Long story short here, I think that we could (with time) be competitive.

NDSU, SDSU, AND UNC have been able to keep their programs, and they've been running all over the U.S. trying to get games in, getting beat BADLY for the better part of two seasons--with no talk of cuts...so you can't tell me that it's not affordable. Also, we would most likely join up with the former NCC members....so there's half a conference already.

I'm only antsy about this because I played in this program and would be heartbroken to see it go. I understand that from a monetary standpoint, it may make it difficult to continue pumping money into a non-revenue sport--it's apparent that it's tough already--evident by all the budget cuts...but this program has been around FOREVER--and as I already said, if these other Universities in the identical situations can make the jump and keep baseball in tact, I don't see why we can't.

In my opinion, it will be tough for NDSU to build their baseball program to a competitive DI level. Have you seen NDSU's home schedule this year? They play 9 home games, two against NAIA teams and four against SDSU. The only two DI teams they have coming to Fargo are Creighton and Minnesota. This is speaking that they play in one of the best DI facilities in the country. NDSU's coach has to tell his kids that they only get 9 home games a year and the rest of the time they're out of town. Not to add on to the fact that they are getting killed in that process. SDSU has 12 home games this year, and 6 of them are against DI teams. Two of those games aren't even being played in Brookings, they're playing those two in Sioux Falls. The other four games are against NDSU. One other thing that NDSU and SDSU don't have to fund is hockey, so it might make it easier to fund a sport like baseball. Chances are, Zig would have to tell his players that their schedule is compromised of away games, and that makes it very hard to recruit, which makes it even harder to compete. Flying a team all over the country to make no profit and frankly not be very competitive (because I don't see how you would get quality DI recruits) just isn't good for the program.

[katohtr]

In my opinion, it will be tough for NDSU to build their baseball program to a competitive DI level. Have you seen NDSU's home schedule this year? They play 9 home games, two against NAIA teams and four against SDSU. The only two DI teams they have coming to Fargo are Creighton and Minnesota. This is speaking that they play in one of the best DI facilities in the country. NDSU's coach has to tell his kids that they only get 9 home games a year and the rest of the time they're out of town. Not to add on to the fact that they are getting killed in that process. SDSU has 12 home games this year, and 6 of them are against DI teams. Two of those games aren't even being played in Brookings, they're playing those two in Sioux Falls. The other four games are against NDSU. One other thing that NDSU and SDSU don't have to fund is hockey, so it might make it easier to fund a sport like baseball. Chances are, Zig would have to tell his players that their schedule is compromised of away games, and that makes it very hard to recruit, which makes it even harder to compete. Flying a team all over the country to make no profit and frankly not be very competitive (because I don't see how you would get quality DI recruits) just isn't good for the program.

I do see your point here with the travel costs and lack of home games....but this is all NEAR future sort of stuff. I would like to think that with time they would find a conference, better recruits, and maybe get themselves their own field. Any school that's tried to make a jump has experienced some turbulence, which is to be expected. Most of our sports (with the exception of football and maybe women's hoops) will be beat on a little bit. I still disagree with the cost being that much of a factor....their budget right now is not costing the University a whole hell of a lot in terms of athletic funding, and having a baseball program is going to bring in another 50-60 students that would otherwise be spending their tuition money elsewhere. I think that a baseball program (whether they're competitive the first few years is irrelevant) is good for the University.

I thought that hockey was given some gagillion dollar donation from Ralph Englestad, which a certain percentage was to be split up amongst the other sports? Or am I way off? Cause I was under the impression that hockey was semi-funded by the Englestads....somebody clue me in.

[katohtr]

Also, one other thing that I wanted to mention about the recruiting. UND (and almost every other school in the NCC for the last 5-10 years) has had some DI talent...every team has got a couple guys that could've played at that level. The difference is because of the location and the status, you're not gonna get ALL of the kids capable of playing DI in your area. UND has already lost some good recruits to teams such as NDSU, UNC, and SDSU...because they WANT TO PLAY DI, it's all about status to some of these kids. Take a look at Ross Olson (for those of you who don't know, Olson was a premier hitter at UND with brute, farm-boy strength). Ross went to play in the Northwoods league in the summer of 2005. A couple of his teammates were from a small DI team in Texas--long story short, they basically recruited him--and now he's a member of Dallas Baptist, all because of the status (probably the weather too, but he's from Roseau....so he should've been used to it here).

The point I'm trying to make here is, I really think that with a status change, you're gonna be able to get better talent. You may not miss out on guys like Aaron Marsden (UND was high on his list till Nebraska came calling), and the Shirek boys.....would they've committed to UND if it was DI at the time? I don't know, but I bet they'd at least have considered it.

[katohtr]

Sioux beat down by Beavers, 10-2.

What in the "sam h-e double hockey sticks" is going on here? In the past, UND has dropped one, MAYBE two to BSU in a four-game set, and even then the games weren't as lop-sided as this one.....I'm starting to get sick to my stomach reading all this. Is Zig really missing that much talent this year, or are these guys not playing together---or both?

[stafford_rules]

Anyone see the games today in GF? UMD swept UND. That shouldn't happen

wow. that Twin's farm team must have really sucked....

[star2city]

Some of us are still on the bandwagon praying that our team will come around in what seems to be it's last few seasons of existence....hoping to god that we don't get steamrolled by this DI jump and vanish like a fart in the wind. Some of us religiously send in money to the program, so the kids can get the "little things" (new catchers equip, or a new bat, or maybe an extra dollar in your meal money on the road), and they can go to Florida to get a few games under their belt in the spring.....what we don't need is some smart a$$ hockey fan undermining one of the few bright spots we've had this season with a retarded comment such as the one posted yesterday....so please keep your unthought-out, demoralizing "one-liners" to yourself.

katohtr:

By your comments, do you believe UND baseball is likely to be cut if we go DI? Is there a lot of financial support from baseball alums - any sugar daddies that would finance an on-campus field? What would be your personal response if UND were to cut baseball?

[katohtr]

katohtr:

By your comments, do you believe UND baseball is likely to be cut if we go DI? Is there a lot of financial support from baseball alums - any sugar daddies that would finance an on-campus field? What would be your personal response if UND were to cut baseball?

I do feel like the program is gonna have a very hard time surviving if there is a status change at the University of North Dakota. There are plenty of alumni that give very generously to this program, but I just don't think that it would be enough to keep the team afloat. The situation with their field I think is the ultimate "back-breaker" in this scenario. To explain: I think that if the Sioux had a facility like the Bison do, a jump (although still very difficult) would be feasible. There is a lot of talent in the area that could possibly play at the DI level, JUCO transfers would be more attracted to come play based on status, and we're fine with equipment, practice facilities....ect. Money, of course, is gonna be an issue. I don't claim to know the "in's and out's" of being an athletic director and budgeting for an entire University--but I do think that they could make it work.

There isn't a "Ralph Englestad" in the baseball alumni--so any thought of a former player building a new field is out of the question. I don't really see a solution to this problem unless the University or the city of Grand Forks decides that it's time to build a new field.

I don't know that I'd have a response to baseball being cut. I'd be thoroughly dissapointed, but aside from that, I wouldn't really know what to do.

Maybe I'll have to put a rally together and go picket or something.....tie ourselves to the Hyslop until they fund the program properly.

[UND Fan]

I am sure this topic was discussed a great deal over the weekend. Part of the reason for the reunion was to reunite players and try to get a financial commitment to support the team. I think it would be in the form of an endowment where the alumni commit to "X" number of dollars a year for the next five years or so. The funds go into an endowment that would help fund the program for years to come.

Various sports at UND are beginning to do this. A great idea - getting help from former players in any sport!