Downtown Revitalization

[Local Boy]

Dude...your naivete is so cute. FYI...home values differ across this amazing country of ours. A 300K home in my neighborhood is a shack...comparatively. A great home...but 2 notches up from a starter home none-the-less.

Enjoy your home in the AZ 'burbs. Try a lil' neighborhood joint called The Olive Garden. I'm sure you'll love it. BTW...you forgot your specific suggestions for downtown. Oh I forgot...you're a www flamer. All criticism...no solutions.

[OldSchool]

Even more classy was the comment on just having to drive through a couple of neighborhoods. Maybe you could ding a kid or two on the way home. Local boy has some maturing to do I think.

[ESPNInsider]

Even more classy was the comment on just having to drive through a couple of neighborhoods.  Maybe you could ding a kid or two on the way home.  Local boy has some maturing to do I think.

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Local Boy's like school in the summer...no class.

But he seems to be an expert on the growth of cities

So Local Boy, what is your main point here? People are all moving into downtowns? People no longer want to live in suburbs? People base were they live on how many neighborhoods they'll drive through drunk at night?

[ESPNInsider]

Oh I forgot...you're a www flamer.  All criticism...no solutions.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

hahah I love this, this guy is spouting off about random stuff, calling people flamers and basically putting everyone else down. Then he says, "all criticism...no solutions." Good stuff.

Like I've said before, I think they'll need to bring a mix of housing and bars, restaurants and shops to the downtown area.

[Brent_Bobyck]

Here's a news flash.

[ESPNInsider]

Newsflash for you Mr. Cratter.  You've got 15 year old info.  Maybe it's still that way in G.F.  But, that's not the direction that the rest of the country is going.  Look up gentrification in a dictionary.  People don't want to commute anymore and spend all that time away from their families (not to mention gas prices), large spread out neighborhoods with no social interaction promote screwed up kids, people don't want to pay taxes on a bigass yards anymore when there's a beautiful park one block away.

The weakness of downtown is largely a function of not enough of a population base.

Sad but true.  Not rocket science BTW.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Just had to go back to this post as I finally realized why your argument is so bad. Take a look at the bolded sentences. You obviously thought that we were talking about the revitalization of ALL downtowns in the country, not just GF. Sorry for tearing your argument apart, it was an honest mistake by you.

Now, what do you think about the GF downtown?

[Brent_Bobyck]

More people are making downtown home

By Alan Achkar

PLAIN DEALER REPORTER

In a neighborhood where the streets used to feature little more than abandoned warehouses, people are now complaining about a lack of parking.

In spots where shattered bottles and beat-up cars dominated the landscape, people are now paying $1,000 a month for a two-bedroom apartment.

Downtown Cleveland is becoming more than a place to catch a ballgame.

While leaders still frame city service and tax debates in terms of "downtown vs. the neighborhoods," downtown appears to be growing stronger as a neighborhood of its own.

The 2000 census counted nearly 4,300 residents in downtown Cleveland, a 23 percent jump from 10 years earlier, when about 3,500 people lived there.

Downtown is one of the few neighborhoods in Cleveland that actually added people.

The city's overall population dropped by 5 percent between 1990 and 2000.

The gains downtown came in a narrow area between the Cuyahoga River and the Inner Belt (around E. 30th St.) And because the census was taken in the spring of 2000, the numbers do not include residents who have moved into downtown in the last year.

In fact, 720 apartments are under construction, according to the Downtown Cleveland Partnership.

"A lot has happened in a year, and a lot's going to be unfolding in the next few months that will change the numbers," said Lee Hill, head of the partnership, which helps oversee development in the city center.

The growth has not come cheaply. Developers have received tax abatements, some for as long as 15 years, for buildings they are renovating.

The tax savings have ranged from several hundred thousand dollars to $4 million.

The city has also lent millions of dollars to the developers to help jump-start downtown housing.

"You need [the financial help] because you're still at the front end of a development cycle," said Tom Yablonsky, head of the Historic Warehouse District Development Corp., a nonprofit group that promotes the area. "The number of people that's possible here is larger than what's already come. We're still setting the table."

So who's moving in?

The answer starts in the Warehouse District, by far the strongest engine powering the population boost and the place where parking complaints are surfacing. More than 900 people call the district home; most of them were not there 10 years ago, according to the census.

"If you're bored living here, it's your own fault," said Marie Manny, who last year moved with her husband, Bill, into the Perry Payne building at Superior Ave. and W. 9th St. "You can walk anywhere. You can do a million things. I gave up my car when we moved here."

The Mannys spent 20 years in a four-bedroom house in a small, rural town north of Dayton. They raised two daughters. They learned to fall asleep to the hypnotic chirping of crickets.

Then, with Bill considering a new engineering job in Cleveland, they made a trip downtown. Living in the city's core, with easy access to theaters, museums, sporting events and restaurants, suddenly made sense for a couple in their late 40s.

Today, they live in a $1,100-a-month, two-bedroom apartment on the fifth floor. They don't miss shoveling snow and mowing a large lawn. And they've learned to fall asleep to the wail of sirens.

"We just decided we wanted a lifestyle change," Marie Manny said. "We were too young and too bored to watch corn grow."

They are part of the population moving into former industrial warehouses that, starting in the mid-1980s, were gradually transformed into chic apartment buildings. The Warehouse District now boasts 13 apartment buildings.

The Mannys are typical of the new arrivals: people looking for a new lifestyle after their kids have left home. The area is also a lure for young professionals who work in the city and don't want to fight highway traffic every morning.

There are drawbacks: High parking fees; the daily approaches from panhandlers; the weekend noise and litter from the party crowd.

But downtown's new residents are drawn to the historic architecture. They don't mind a short drive to the suburbs to go grocery shopping. And they generally feel safe living in the city center.

The same attractions are driving growth in the Gateway District, the area around Jacobs Field and Gund Arena, which added nearly 200 people in the 1990s.

A survey last year by Cleveland State University found that 86 percent of the people moving downtown come from outside the city. Many are paying high rents, compared with suburban apartments, for the right to live downtown.

They are providing Cleveland with a new wave of middle- to high-income residents, a wave that has typically flowed out of the city. Those residents pay income tax and spend money in city businesses.

In the Warehouse District, the average household income is nearly $74,000, according to a 1999 Kent State University survey.

"You go to a block club [meeting] in some parts of my ward and people don't have a phone," said Councilman Joe Cimperman, whose ward includes downtown. "You go to a block club in the Warehouse District, and everybody gives you an e-mail address."

The total downtown population of 4,300, reached through an analysis by The Plain Dealer and Northern Ohio Data and Information Service, includes people in buildings that have been standing for years, such as Reserve Square apartments on E. 12th St. It also includes homeless shelters and a Cleveland State University dormitory. It does not include the Justice Center, where jail inmates were counted as city residents by census workers.

Cleveland leaders have claimed that the Census Bureau undercounted the city's population. The administration of Mayor Michael R. White did not reply to requests for an interview for this story.

Yablonsky, with the Historic Warehouse District Development Corp., believes the district's population is closer to 1,200.

"A lot of those apartment buildings are totally full," he said.

Even if people were missed, Cleveland's gains indicate that the city is following a national trend of growing demand for downtown living.

Cleveland's downtown population appears paltry compared with Baltimore (14,000), Chicago (115,000) or Minneapolis (19,000), according to a survey by the Brookings Institution two years ago.

But it is surpassing, or keeping pace with, nearby cities such as Columbus (3,800) and Pittsburgh (4,500). Also, the number of rental units in Cleveland far surpasses those in Columbus and Cincinnati.

Cleveland leaders think the next step is to create a for-sale market, not just rentals. The Warehouse District development corporation unveiled a master plan last month with the goal of adding 5,000 housing units, including condominiums and townhouses.

"Everywhere we go, people say, 'I want to come [downtown], but I want to buy,' " said Hill, of the Downtown Cleveland Partnership. "The question is, what product do they want? And how much are they willing to pay?"

Mark Jochum is one Warehouse District apartment dweller who would be tempted to buy a condominium. A lifelong Euclid resident who even served on the City Council for 14 years, Jochum and his wife, Joan, moved to the Bridgeview apartment complex on W. 9th St. a year ago.

Their spacious two-bedroom apartment, featuring exposed brick and 90-year-old wooden beams, has an outdoor deck with a stunning view of the Flats.

They brought along their 16-year-old daughter, Frances, who attends a nearby private high school. She is in a tiny minority in downtown, where most residents are adults.

"Suburban life was really good, but we always told our children to expand your horizons," said Mark Jochum.

"We decided to go through a midlife crisis together," Joan Jochum added. "People our age put blinders on. We didn't want to do that."

[Local Boy]

You gentlemen (the angry ones anyway) don't understand people and simple human behavior. I wasn't referring to myself. I drive right down South Washington, Columbia, whatever it takes.

Don't get angry with me. If you like Grand Forks...enjoy it. I have. Lots of great people, a few great places, and you're near some good outdoor activities. It's a simple fact that there just isn't enough of a population base to support a thriving downtown at this time. Retail, white collar, condos, and nightlife. Not in our lifetime frankly. 1% population growth a year puts G.F. at 100K in about 50-70 years. Believe me...I won't be lookin' for a beer downtown at that time. None of us will.

There's no suggestions in this thread. There never is. Soon it will degrade to G.F. is better than Fargo...UND is great, NDSU sucks.

I threw my hat in the ring out of curiousity. I've discovered lots, and nothing.

Go Sioux! I've got my season tickets...have forever. Hope to see you boys at a game.

I'll be the one drivin' right down University and Washington with a lil' buzz from droppin' a few bucks at REA. There's less children on those streets at night!

[Brent_Bobyck]

Reversing suburban flight, families move back downtown

Loft apartment in downtown Atlanta

This article is part of a companion series to "Sprawl America," a look at suburban growth airing nightly this week on CNN at 8 p.m. EST.

Web posted at: 11:21 p.m. EST (0421 GMT)

ATLANTA (CNN) -- Fed up with grueling commutes, more and more people are moving from the suburbs back into downtown areas, fueling a residential rebirth in cities like Atlanta, Chicago, Dallas and Denver.

"I was spending three hours a day in traffic, and it just got unbearable," said Atlanta resident Kathy Holland. That was when she lived in the suburbs, 20 miles out. Now her commute is just a 15-minute walk to work.

She and her husband became some of the city's first urban dwellers in 50 years when they moved downtown two years ago.

"We don't want to go back to the suburbs," said Holland. "In fact, we looked at some outlying areas a mile from here, and we said, 'That's too far out,' because then I'd have to get in my car and go to work and right now I don't have to."

In fact, she hasn't driven her car in over a month.

In Atlanta, prices for downtown lofts have doubled in the last three years. Old buildings are being converted into new living spaces, and many loft buildings have a waiting list for those looking to buy.

Atlanta's downtown now has a population of about a thousand residents, up from about fifty a decade ago.

Real estate professionals say downtown living may be an option for some, but there's one crucial drawback.

"Right now downtown living is probably not for the young married couple who have got children," said Lewis Glenn of Harry Norman Realtors. "I say that because of the proximity of schools to the downtown area," he said.

The Goolsby family

But not every family with children is headed for suburbia.

Tom and Jennifer Goolsby live in a downtown Atlanta loft with their 2-year-old daughter, Billie. They made their decision for several reasons.

"The very idea of spending 10 to 20 percent of my life in an automobile is mind-boggling," said Tom Goolsby.

He also thinks raising a toddler in an urban environment is perfectly acceptable and takes Billie to the park to mingle with street musicians.

"If the old adage is true -- it takes a village to raise a child -- then here we are in this huge village," Goolsby said. "All these cultures intermingle here -- the black culture, the white culture. Every one of those cultures has a great deal of respect for children, a great deal of respect for mothers."

Tom Goolsby and daughter Billie in a nearby park

The Goolsbys plan to send Billie to a new downtown school when she's old enough.

"Education is a major factor in the hesitation for families to come to downtown areas, because in downtown areas you really do not have a good public education system," said Jag Sheth of Emory University.

For now, the Goolsbys are happy having a downtown home with a park for a backyard, right across the street.

"I think we have most of what we want," said Tom Goolsby. "We have everything we need."

[Brent_Bobyck]

These are just a few articles I found saying that people across the country are moving back downtown and the condo market is taking off at an alarming rate. Obviously GF is not a big city like Milwaukee, Cleveland or Atlanta but the idea of living downtown, no matter how big the city, is still trendy.

I would consider myself "the next generation" and I would love to live downtown GF or Minneapolis or Omaha or Fargo. I could careless about the "big back yard" and things of that nature. I will think differently when I have kids but for now, downtown would be great.

[schmidtdoggydog]

I'll be the one drivin' right down University and Washington with a lil' buzz from droppin' a few bucks at REA.  There's less children on those streets at night!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

WOW!!!

This is perhaps the most inane statement I've ever read on this board and THAT is saying a lot!

[airmail]

WOW!!!

This is perhaps the most inane statement I've ever read on this board and THAT is saying a lot!

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Maybe it's Siouxrock all grown up?

[Local Boy]

Follow the thread...it's a reference to a prior statement.

Oh my...people drive after drinkin' a couple beers. What a shocker!

[Brent_Bobyck]

Follow the thread...it's a reference to a prior statement.

Oh my...people drive after drinkin' a couple beers.