#MACtion
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Posts posted by #MACtion
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Which one of you is "NoDak" over on the CSNBBS board?
http://csnbbs.com/th...330-page-5.html
The only problem I see with this "agreement" is yes the Sun Belt can add as many teams as they want, but the payout from the CFP contract is for a maximum of 12 teams. So every team after 12 then dilutes the revenue from the other Sun Belt teams. Maybe that was agreed upon, I dunno. Also if then the Big Sky teams split back off from the Sun Belt teams and form a new FBS conference, then they will not receive any CFP money as they are not in the contract as a conference that splits the $90 million, just the Sun Belt. maybe thats OK and the Big Sky just wants to be FBS and is willing to not receive the extra $15 per year.
Either way, this would not be the case for any other FCS conference and the Big Sky wouldn't "become FBS" it would have to leave behind some of the weaker BSC teams and form a new conference and new name. It would be like how the NCHC was formed. The top of the Big Sky would breakaway like Denver and UND did and then leave behind the other WCHA teams (Bemidji, Michigan Tech = NAU, Idaho State) and create a new conference name. The Big Sky would remain a FCS conference just like the WCHA was left behind. No FBS for CAA, MVFC, etc... although NDSU would likely join new conference with UND, EWU, Montana, Idaho etc...
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Thanks, MACtion, for a clear perspective from an established FBS viewpoint. Well stated and clearly presented. From your perspective, do you think UND's new relationship with Miami (and Western Michigan) in the NCHC could lead to some crossover in future out of conference football and basketball scheduling?
I certainly think WMU and Miami would play North Dakota in both, travel would be the only impediment. Travel probably doesn't seem like as big of a deal to UND or any schools west of the Mississippi because thats just the way of life in athletics out there as it is much less densely populated and schools have to travel but to everybody east there is always the evaluation of why not just play somebody closer we can bus too and save the money and travel time issues on the student-athletes. I don't think Miami would come to Grand Forks for Football because I can't remember the last time any FBS team has played on the road at a FCS school, but Miami would certainly welcome the Sioux in football in Oxford. I could also see a home and home in basketball if that is something UND wanted. Northern Illinois would also play UND.
I just saw our AD David Sayler and a WMU rep being named on the NCHC new board, Sayler is a great AD and came from SDSU as their AD and did a good job there too with fundraising and buildings. Josh Fenton from Miami was also a great pick as NCHC Commish. Miami lost a good one there. So there are plenty of MAC ties with the NCHC schools if games are wanting to be scheduled, Im just not sure UND has a priority to play us in football/basketball.
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It doesn't matter what the MAC thinks, as they've got no power other than what the Big 10 grants.
If you look back on this thread, its all about a deal between Idaho and the Sun Belt and the rest of the Big Sky. When the WAC was dying, what the WAC could have done could have killed or weakened the Sun Belt (the WAC offering the MVC + Ark St + Texas St + LaLa a new FBS league status, or the WAC offering every tom, dick and harry FCS team in the south FBS status). The Sun Belt chose to give Idaho and NMSU affiliate status in return for later granting FBS status to the Big Sky. The Big Sky wasn't ready to start FBS with the WAC: it needed to wait. The Sun Belt was granted a reprieve by absorbing NMSU and Idaho and so was the Big Sky by waiting. Idaho gets what it wanted: a regional FBS league, but later. Everybody is happy but the MWC, MAC, CUSA, and AAC. The Sun Belt has the right to grant Big Sky teams FBS status. Take it up with the Sun Belt. They will grant Idaho and the Big Sky FBS status, in return for the WAC not screwing with them.
Other FCS leagues are not going FBS, so don't worry about it.
That makes more sense. Never understood why the Big Sky schools would turn down the WAC offer and let them go exstinct and then turn around and want to go FBS. If your theory holds true, its just a delayed WAC revival. I still don't think all of the Big Sky should go, just the top 8 teams or so along with Idaho and NMSU and then NDSU and SDSU to make a 12 team conference.
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Big Sky fans who believe if their is a FBS split** that the MAC, MWC, AAC, CUSA, and Sun Belt will merge with the D1AA are the same people that are naive enough to believe Kenneth Lay and Dick Fuld just days before Enron and Lehman Brothers bit the dust. Fullerton = Kenneth Lay and App State and GA Southern get that.
** Not gonna happen but this is an entire another huge thread of articles supporting this
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I respect UND and especially their hockey program, its a money maker.
I also think UND, like NDSU, has the potential to be close to the MAC in budget and competition. But its not in football, and definetly not in basketball. Just like UConn has larger revenue than many bigger conference schools like Washington State, Wake Forest, etc.... and many schools like Northern Illinois, Miami-Oh routinely in the past, etc beats bigger conference schools, UND and NDSU are in smaller conferences that will never be lifted on par with the MAC, MWC, AAC, etc.... Thats just the way it is and I feel your concern because the MAC schools are in the same scenario with regards to the Big Ten, ACC, etc. Sure, UND or NDSU could individually get an invite to the Mountain West because they are great schools, but the Big Sky in general will not ever be FBS. Schools like NAU, Northern Colorado, etc have small budgets and poor facilities and attendance.
This stuff that Fullerton feeds the Big Sky schools is BS and disingenous in my opinton. Fullerton sounds like Baghdad Bob of Iraq right before Baghdad was hit with Shock n Awe. Do you guys really think that the MWC, AAC, MAC, CUSA, and Sun Belt are gonna all of a sudden decide to welcome the Big Sky to the same table with them after all the sweat and treasure they have given? Schools like Montana and most of the Big Sky was already given that opportunity by a desperate WAC and they didn't want to step up to the plate and spend the money. Those same schools are responsible for letting FBS Football in the WAC to end and now they are arrogant enough or naive enough to believe Fullerton that the rest of the FBS will welcome them with open arms and share their bounty? What is it you exactly believe? That all of a sudden the Big Sky schools "now" will spend the money and 85 scholarships for FBS that they wouldn't for the WAC?
The MWC, MAC, AAC, Sun Belt, and CUSA just signed a legal binding 12-year Contract 18-months ago with ESPN, the PAC12, Big 12, Big Ten, SEC, and ACC that GUARANTEES over TWELVE years at least $90 MILLION per year to our conferences. Serious question, does FULLERTON or those on this board REALLY believe that even though we've all seen how greedy the PAC12, Big Ten are for money and separating the gap that the Mountain West and MAC are soooooooo generous and nice that we are willing to share our hard worked for $90 million per year over 12 years (OVER A BILLION DOLLARS) with the Big Sky, MVC, CAA etc.
?If you are honest with yourselves you know the answer is no, no matter what Fullerton tells you. Fullerton likes his job Im sure . One thing is for sure, the CAA, App State, GA State, GA Southern, UMass, Texas State, UTSA, Idaho, etc. don't believe what Fullerton is selling.... If they did then they would have stayed in FCS and waited for their free ticket into FBS and not spent a dime on new facilites etc....
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UND does need to put more resources into football asap. As I am sure you are aware we had a pretty rough season last year and many here seem to agree that more resources would help move FB in the right direction.
Out of curiosity what does Miami spend on hockey?
I tried looking it up but it appears that number has been omitted :
http://ope.ed.gov/at...4333a303920414d
I think everybody in the NCHC is spending roughly the same on hockey (in the $4 million range - same for Miami and Western Michigan). I think that is part of the deal with forming the NCHC, all the schools will fully resource top-level college hockey.
Careful what you ask for in throwing more money at UND football, it has to come from some where. More money thrown at football could be at the expense of hockey or another sport such as basketball. That seemed to be where it came from at Miami when we built Steve Cady Arena and Goggin, Millett Hall (MU bball) and basketball had been put on the afterburner (and football to a lesser extent) while the cost of the new hockey arena was digested. It seems we are through that and now Millett is getting a facelift and more is being put into basketball and football is getting our new indoor practice facility and plans are in work to break on stadium improvements that are much needed at Miami.
It's is interesting to look at both UND and North Dakota State. Both have roughly the same athletic budgets ($19 and $20 million) except NDSU is throwing more at football and UND is throwing their $ at hockey. Both strategies have been successful in gaining exposure and notoriety for the schools as NDSU has won 1AA football championships, beaten BCS teams, and had ESPN gameday on campus while UND has won hockey championships and has gotten great media exposure from CBS Sports, MediaCom, Fox FCS, etc.... It would be hard for both schools to fully fund both sports at a high level right now though so both understand where their bread and butter come from. Miami is similar in that we understand that hockey is a sport we can afford to fully fund at the highest level and enjoy the exposure and opportunity to field a true National Championship contender year in and year out while the sport itself has been gaining notoriety and growth. We simply can't afford to spend $60 milllion a year on football like Ohio State to be in the same situation in football, but in hockey we have everything OSU has while still competing at a high level in the MAC in football and basketball. I'd like to see both NDSU and UND in the MAC if they both were located in perhaps Wisconsin, instead of ND. Too far out.
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Nearly all? Care to break that blanket statement down?
North Dakota
Men's Teams - Women's Teams - Total
Basketball $1,078,927 $1,088,751 $2,167,678
Football $3,181,952 $3,181,952
Total Revenues of all Sports, Except Football and Basketball, Combined $4,058,721 $4,439,199 $8,497,920
Total Revenues Men's and Women's Teams $8,319,600 $5,527,950 $13,847,550
Not Allocated by Gender/Sport $6,586,381
Grand Total for all Teams (includes by team and not allocated by gender/sport)
$20,433,931
There is no GAAP for individual public schools that I'm aware of except for some state rules like in Virginia where the marching band, cheerleading expenses etc.. must be included in athletic budgets where most place else don't include that, but we can get an idea from the data. This information filed says "revenue" but it is really a small number of ticket sales for football and basketball and then subsidy and student fees plugging the hole to make up the rest of the "revenue". UND hockey (NCHC) falls into the "other revenue except football and basketball" and represents $4 million which is probably true ticket revenue (10,000 average fans per game x $30 ticket x home games roughy $4 million). The other $6.5 million not allocated to a sport is likely capital buildings and maintenance etc... that is likely related to the Ralph and hockey stuff in the majority.
The $1 million for basketball and $3 million for football is typical for and related to Big Sky and is much lower that typical MAC which is $3 million for basketball and $7 million for football. Half of UND's athletic budget is going toward Hockey.
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love it when people use facts...
We were talking MAC vs Big Sky and nearly all of UND's $ is NCHC related.
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Of course the MWC wouldn't want an FBS Big Sky. But a PAC12 would love to see a Big Sky FBS conference for the same reason the Big10 has formalized a scheduling agreement with the MAC. The Big10 needs to MAC to provide 7th home games. The PAC12 needs a league that it can get home FBS games routinely. If the MAC wasn't in the Big 10 footprint, the Big 10 never would have proposed banning FBS/FCS games. The MAC serves as a little brother to the Big10 and the PAC12 needs its own little brother for scheduling.
The MWC and AAC don't provide scheduling services at the prices the SEC/ACC/Big12/Pac12 want, so the PAC12 views the MWC more as an irritant.
PAC12 and others are choosing to no longer play FCS conferences such as the Big Sky because it hurts strength of schedule for the College Football Playoff. The MWC, MAC, AAC etc.. are doing the same as we are all working toward the Access Bowl for our champ which pays our conference a huge bonus. FBS will phase out FCS games going forward I think. That is also driving up demand for FBS conferences.
Arkansas State has already stated they will not and the AAC is also talking of making a conference rule on it. The G5 teams are also worried about strength of schedule as much as the P5 conferences as we are all fighting for the $18 million "Access Bowl" (Fiesta, Cotton, Peach) that is awarded to the highest ranked G5 team. FCS teams will largely only be playing other FCS teams moving forward.
The G5 has plenty of OOC scheduling options that don't include anymore FCS teams. First, G5 is also considering 9-game conference models. Secondly, the P5 are all knocking on our doors to schedule us and bidding up the price because they can no longer schedule FCS teams going forward. Lastly, G5 teams can schedule each other easily. SOS will drive this.
Terry Mohajir also told the Gazette that Arkansas State will not schedule FCS teams moving forward due to strength of schedule concerns.
“It’s about the ratings at the end of the year,” Mohajir said. “The way the new selection committee is going to work, if you have an FCS win, it won’t help you. It can hurt you, especially when they’re getting down to comparing schedules. If you lose to one, it’ll kill you.”
http://www.fbschedules.com/2014/05/arkansas-state-iowa-state-schedule-2024-25-football-series/
How will the teams that are not in the playoff be selected for the other bowls that make up this new arrangement?
The highest ranked champion of the other five Football Bowl Subdivision conferences (the American Athletic, Conference-USA, Mid-American, Mountain West and Sun Belt), as determined by the selection committee, will play in one of the six New Year's bowls
Among the many factors the committee will consider are win-loss record, strength of schedule, head-to-head results, comparison of results against common opponents and conference championships.
http://www.collegefootballplayoff.com/story?id=10328143
The same selection committee that determines the top 4 teams for the College Football Playoff also selects the top G5 team for the "Access" Bowl. The payout for that bowl is somewhere around $18 million payed to the conference who sends the team to the Fiesta/Cotton/Peach Bowl, so the conferences (MAC, SBC, AAC, MWC, CUSA) have incentive to increase SOS or make rules regarding SOS just as the BIG/SEC/ACC/B12/PAC are concentrating on SOS. Same Committee, same criteria, lots of money at stake.
Before NIU lost in the MAC Championship game this year to Bowling Green, there was a lot of discussion if NIU or Fresno State deserves to be ranked higher and go to Fiesta Bowl. The first time a G5 Champ narrowly gets snubbed for the $12 million Fiesta Bowl because the excuse is made they had a weaker schedule than all out-of-conference scheduling will be examined and scrutinized both at the individual school and conference level. There is only 1 strip of bacon at the breakfast table for 5 conferences and we are all fighting over it.
As far as the Big Sky and MWC ever being on equal ground, that just isn't going to happen and why would it? The MWC and MAC and AAC have invested too much money and sweat-equity to ever contemplate dropping down for charity and the BSC already had its chance to merge with the WAC and your schools said no to playing FBS and investing the money in capital and 44 additional scholarships (Title IX).
NIU has proven two years straight if you win in the MAC you'll be rated higher than the AAC (UCF) and MWC (Fresno).
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http://www.usatoday....ID=mog1rtu2y0m6
The Big Sky compares favorably in revenues to Sun Belt and MAC schools but yet is FCS. Going FBS isn't that much of a stretch, if some stadiums can be brought up to 18-20,000.
Not really...
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Fullerton can say whatever he wants, but he is sorely mistaken if he thinks the Mountain West doesn't want to distance themself from the Big Sky in the same manner that the PAC12 does with the MWC.
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When a MAC, SB, MW team is playing for a National Title and Alabama, Auburn, Nebraska, Ohio State is at home watching this I will believe the NCAA won't isolate FBS teams and conferences. Boise State had how many times to play for a NC but the NCAA prevented them from doing it. Just because there is a 4 team playoff doesn't mean it won't be 4 S5 teams. Wyoming, ULM, Miami (OH), and Marshall will never be a final 4 in the FBS championship tournament. It will most likely be Alabama, Ohio State, UCLA, Florida State. The day a non Super 5 teams wins a NC in football is the day UND wins the dance.
The 4-team playoff will eventually expand. The rules have relaxed already over the years and why the MAC sent a team to the Orange Bowl already and almost again this last season. In 2003 when Miami O finished #10 in the country we also would have been in that bowl under the current rules. Besides, having a chance for the auto-bid Fiesta Bowl slot is still way better than a FCS Championship (think NIT, nobody watches)
The last 2 seasons the MAC Championship game in football had better attendance and TV ratings than the FCS Championship. More people are interested in the 12-team MAC Conference race than the entirety of FCS and their nationwide title.
MAC had higher TV ratings on ESPN2 than the Mountain West Conference had on prime-time CBS.
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When a MAC team plays a Big Ten team (or SEC, ACC, Big XII, etc), that MAC team gets paid between $900,000 - $1.2 million and keeps it for themself. If a FCS team plays a Big Ten team, they are paid $300,000 - $500,000. The Big Ten pays extra for an FBS opponent. They have now said they will no longer play FCS opponents which will dry up some revenue for FCS teams.
In comparison, when an FCS team visits a MAC team, we pay between $200,000 - $400,000. Often MAC teams will schedule 2-for-1 (2 away vs 1 home) with these large revenue conferences and then offset the lack of return trip from the Big Ten school with a FCS school. Most MAC schedules have 1 Big Ten team and 1 FCS team one year and sometimes 2 Big Ten teams another. On the year it is 1 BT and 1 FCS we collect $1 million from the BT team and then pay $300,000 to the visiting FCS team. This balances out our strenght of schedule and home vs away schedule with one hard and one easy game while pocketing $700,000 in revenue.
As far as the discussion of FCS vs FBS. This is straight from the Montana AD comparing the most successful and richest FCS team (Montana) vs the least successful and poorest FBS team (Idaho):
http://missoulian.com/article_44bbeda2-cdde-11df-9730-001cc4c002e0.html
As far as the "FBS split" noise. Here is the proposal from the FARS. Notice that it is endorsed by every FBS conference on the left side of the cover page.
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It clearly states there is no desire for just the Big 5 to breakaway as there wouldn't be enough teams to compete.
The NCAA tournament would not change.
Objectives:
(4) the FBS must be the master of its own fate, particularly with regard to matters of enhancement of the student-athlete experience that depend on increased revenue allocation
Division I/FBS combined championships rather than separate FBS championships
Third, because we believe that the Division I championship structure works well, we see no good reason to isolate FBS teams and conferences. (Moreover, although we have not examined competition numbers, we wonder whether some FBS-only championships would have a sufficient number of teams and student-athletes to warrant separate championships."
Actual Proposal:
http://cdn2.sbnation.com/assets/3277511/Governance_Proposal.pdf
There is another article that states in this springs D1 NCAA convention in San Diego that all 10 FBS conferences and the Big East basketball conference all voted for and endorsed stipends. That is key.
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Again it takes a minimum of 4-5 million to jump to FBS per year - I doubt what you have posted makes that up. But keep trying.
LOL, I couldn't care less about UND football, was just adding to the discussion and stating some facts. Montana's AD along with App St, GA Southern, etc have all said FBS is less of a money loser than FCS. It will get worse now that the conferences like the Big Ten have said they will no longer play FCS schools and give them a pay day. MAC gets $1 million per game when we play Big Ten road games. Miami spends between $7-$8 million on football. There will be no FBS split in next 12 years.
There are several proposals floating out there for the FBS and Big East basketball conferences (11 total) to split from the rest of D1.
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Again it takes a minimum of 4-5 million to jump to FBS per year - I doubt what you have posted makes that up. But keep trying.
LOL, I couldn't care less about UND football, was just adding to the discussion and stating some facts. Montana's AD along with App St, GA Southern, etc have all said FBS is less of a money loser than FCS. It will get worse now that the conferences like the Big Ten have said they will no longer play FCS schools and give them a pay day. MAC gets $1 million per game when we play Big Ten road games. Miami spends between $7-$8 million on football. There will be no FBS split in next 12 years.
There are several proposals floating out there for the FBS and Big East basketball conferences (11 total) to split from the rest of D1.
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I doubt that anyone in the MAC or Sun make any money in FB. Those bowl games usually don't pay much and most conferences that rules that the money is split up between all members.
You lose less money in FBS than FCS despite more scholarships. The new college football playoff scheme guarantees $1.5 million per MAC team that we didn't have before. In addition the MAC is in the final stretch of renegotiating our ESPN TV deal and is expected to receive annual $1 million per team.
There will be no FBS breakup at least for the next 12 years as we just all signed a binding contract with ESPN and guaranteed revenues and access bowl bids for the durantion of the contract.
The new contract guaranteed the highest rated team of the MAC, Sun Belt, AAC, CUSA, Mountain West get an auto-bid to the Fiesta, Cotton, or Atlanta Bowl vs a Big 5 conference team in the Top 10. The payout for that bowl is large.
When Northern Illinois made the Orange Bowl, the MAC split like $12 million from it.
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I've enjoyed my time on Sioux Sports through both the best and worst (9-2) of times....
See yah hosers next year. Im proud to be in the NCHC. I know our MAC bretheren Bowling Green wishes they were.
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When can we fire our goofball coach. This is a disgrace
You are being to harsh. Miami was once #1 this season for a reason.... Then we lost out goalie and a very key player Coleman for 11 games. Moral sunk and we were adjusting to new travel and a new conference style we weren't used to.
The goalie and Coleman are back and moral is back. We have a good coach and we are now back to living up to our potential.
Don't judge us on the one 9-2 game.
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When can we fire our goofball coach. This is a disgrace
You are being to harsh. Miami was once #1 this season for a reason.... Then we lost out goalie and a very key player Coleman for 11 games. Moral sunk and we were adjusting to new travel and a new conference style we weren't used to.
The goalie and Coleman are back and moral is back. We have a good coach and we are now back to living up to our potential.
Don't judge us on the one 9-2 game.
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Much better period 2 for Miami
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Also... Any word of expansion? I hear faint rumors of Bowling Green and Iowa State.
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So how had Minny and Whisky treated you since?
Notre Dame and Michigan refuse to play Miami in a home and hime since the CCHA has disband and are trying to treat our hockey team like out football and basketball team. They want to play us, but only if we play only there and no return to Oxford. Said it was in out interest because of BTN. We of course told them to pound sand (same with WMU). Ohio State and Michigan State still want to play us just like CCHA days.
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BTW, how is the crowd vs old school Final 5 and what is non-UND fan base like for casual spectators (non-NCHC) and also Miami, Western, and Denver?
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Hoggsbreath...tomorrow...11am...non-UND fans welcome.
I know the lack of Miami fans at the tourney is probably frustrating, but Im also not there. If I was there, Id for sure stop over at Hoggsbreath.
I dont live close by
Viewing options for Sioux hockey games this season
in Men's Hockey
Posted
So how did this end up working out for you guys vs FCS now that the season is over?
Is there talk of a NCHC Digital Network like they did during playoffs? Any chance of CBS being more flexible and allowing FCS or ESPN3 in the future, etc?