fourwindsboy
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Posts
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Posts posted by fourwindsboy
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Amen. I agree.
Why doesn't "sticking it to the majority" not make sense? You know what bothers all of you about the nickname being changed is that you will have lost to the "Indians" on this matter. And most of you just can't come to terms with that. Think about it, after kickin our a$$es for so long, you'll finally lose one!
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Yes, that makes sense, since North Dakota in the ancestoral homeland of the Jewish people...oh, wait...never mind. Hate to break it to you, Skippy, but you lost all credibility when you admitted that the real reason you want the name changed is to stick it to "the majority". It's also instructive to note that none of the anti-nicknamers have since posted trying to refute this as a reason to discontinue the name. If this were my website I'd ban a user that posts such racist garbage.
Then why don't you petition to have the name changed to the Fighting Jews if they don't mind? One important point is that the majority will never understand what it feels like to be discriminated against and that is very evident in reading the majority if the posts on this forum. But don't think your words will discourage me from continuing to post.
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Hey Troll don't go away mad, but please just go away! You do not bring anything remotely constructive to ss.com. It is not that you don't agree with people, but it is that you just look to argue. Plus you are just plain wrong on some things.
OK I get it. I don't support the nickname and try to give a Native American perspective to most of my posts but you all are so close minded that you don't want to listen or just ignore. What would be constructive? I know if I was if favor of the nickname, i get it.
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Before your start replying to posts that are almost three years old you should read all the posts related to the issue. I have posted since then that the NA programs at UND are funded by federal grants.
It's apparent to me that your trolling my posts in order to start a hostile and abusive dialog with me. I'm not biting. As I said before, you're not bringing anything new to this forum and I'm not interested in arguing with you.
Ah, you just did. And don't go feelin all warm and fuzzy about me trolling your posts. I looked at the first page of the topic and came across your post. I didn't have time to look at all 134 pages to find replies to your post. By the way how did it feel to be dead wrong about your statement?
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This article points out that the use of mascots and derogatory names is insulting. UND does not have a mascot nor is the name Sioux derogatory. The article also points out that people who are for the names do little or nothing for the American Indian. As stated ad nauseam, UND spends millions of dollars on American Indian programs and services.
Whoa, whoa, whoa! UND does not spend millions of $$$ out of its own pocket for NA programs. All of the NA programs at UND are grant programs funded by the feds. UND applied for those grants and they awarded to them. In fact any federal grant has indirect costs related to them, always around 10-15% of the grant, which UND puts in thier pockets. So in effect, UND is earning themselves money for having these NA programs. I know for a fact the NA cultural center, INMED, Bridges, the Mcnair programs and the INPSYD program are federally funded. I challenge you to tell of a NA program at UND that is funded by UND funds.
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You're absolutely right. If any group would have a reason to gripe, it's Jewish people. They don't and they've been persecuted for thousands (not hundreds) of years and they've been highly successful for thousands of years.
Ok, what do you think they would do if a school changed their name to the Fighting Jews or the Raging Hasidics? The jews would be makin some noise then. Course if that happened then you'd say they were complainin for nothing, they're bein crybabies, etc, etc......
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Good for you!
I'm happy for you.
Pidamaya.
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What was the point of this?
The case was documented. Why would she lie about her experience? OH! Because it isn't flattering to "the rez." Gotcha. This comment falls under the auspices of "Non-rez people who criticize rez life/decisions/etc. are racists and bs-artists. Only rez-residents (rezidents?) can criticize "the rez."
Sioux-cia's bad experience was stated plain as day and cited a similar experience by someone unrelated to her along the way. It's not an isolated incident. Even if it was, I'm positive Sioux-cia would have treated it as such, shrugging her shoulders and walking away.
What happened to her isn't indicative of just Native Americans. White Americans also go looking for prescription narcotics under false pretenses. However, the wording of the Native American socialist health care system makes it almost impossible to stop such a trend because her, a non-NA, denying it from them can constitute denial of service. Since her side of the story WAS NOT PRESENTED at the tribal council meeting that resulted in her banishment, how could you POSSIBLY claim that we're not hearing the full story? If not hearing the full story was good enough for the tribal council, then it is good enough for here too.
If that's not good enough for you, then I suggest you just go ahead and head over to "the rez" and live the rest of your life with a paper sack over your head and a "woe is me" sign around your neck like the image you try to portray your people.
Already live on the rez and couldn't be happier.
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Up until recently, I only knew about reservation politics from the media and through hearsay. Around a year and a half ago, I started a new career as a locum tenens (temporary) health care provider. I spent a wonderful year on the Navajo reservation before returning to the Dakota's to work on a Sioux reservation.
A month ago, a tribal member came to the federal facility where I worked and threatened to kill me, twice. She came to the Walk In Clinic where I worked for all her health care. I had never seen the woman as a patient. The other provider saw her. She also went to the local non-IHS ER for health care. She has a specific medication request and goes anywhere and everywhere to get this medication. After she threatened to kill me, a staff member told me that this patient had told the health care provider I replaced that she was going to have her job and she would run her off the reservation. Unfortunate that I only learned of this after she threatened my life. After my 'incident', the facility told the woman she could get her health care at the facility but she had to pick a permanent provider to manage her health care.
I was told that threatening to kill me broke no law! An F.B.I. agent suggested I go to the reservation's tribal court and get a restraining order against the woman. I did. She was told to stay away from me for six months. This woman then went to the tribe's Health Services Board and told them she was denied health care because of the order. The CEO, who was there and is Native American, told the board she could get care from the clinic but not from me. After he spoke his piece, he was asked to leave the meeting. I don't know what was discussed after he left. Later that day, I was told the board was going to take the issue to the tribal council and the action they would most likely take was be to ban me from the reservation. "The IHS doesn't answer to the tribe" but by banning me from the reservation, I can't work there. The patients who are happy with my care, the staff who totally support me and the lack of any deficiency in any medical care I provide means ZERO, NOTHING, NADA to the tribal council. As a non-tribal member, non-Native American, I am not allowed to speak before the Health Services Board or the Tribal Council. The patients and staff that are members of the tribe that support me can only speak for me if invited by the Tribal Council.
Democracy!! Ain't she a bit@h!
CIa, I think your full of it! Couple of things jump out at me about your story. First, you are only telling one side of the story. I'm sure theres another side from the other party involved. Second, you make it sound like a non-native working on a rez is totally unwelcomed. I know of numerous non-native on my rez who have worked here for years and get along with everyone and are happy. You make the rez sound like some kind of hellhole. The rez is different from communties off the rez with there own way of doing things. Doesn't mean its wrong just different than off the rez. To bad you couldn't say kinder things about the rez you were on as I know there were.
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In a workplace harassment situation (which I believe that some liken this situation to . . . NCAA, some native americans), when someone is offended by a Action, a Joke, a Comment, a picture in the wall, etc, etc . . . you don't bring the entire office into a meeting and ask them to vote if the Action, the Joke, the Picture on the wall is offensive.
If the Action, the Joke, the Picture on the wall, etc . . . is offensive to one person while files a claim to the human resource organization, that's all it takes. If 9 out of 10 people don't think that the situation was harassment, but 1 person does, that's all it takes. In a workplace situation that's how it works, no questions aksed. Decisive action is taken to support the view of the 1 person . . . in a workpalce situation.
I believe that's how the NCAA and the Indian leader view this situation. For Ron His Horse, the logic of putting this situation to a vote does not apply. I believe that this is how the situation is viewed by some. I am not saying that I agree with this logic with regard to the nickname, but I liken their viewpoint to a workplace harassment sitation. To them the logic of . . . "let's see what the majority thinks", does not apply as it is offensive to some.
Unless people understand this viewpoint, right or wrong, I don't think that they understand where these groups are coming from. They do not view this as "Let's see what the majority thinks". Again, these are observations of the position that I believe these groups are coming from.
Believe me, on the SLN it isn't one person. It's a significant amount of people. Alot of these people, including myself, are educated. More importantly, most of the elders are opposed to the name. On any rez, the opinion of the elders is held in the highest regard.
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Agreed that this is one of the absolute worst PR blunders that the tribes could possibly make. To people like RHHT, David Gipp, BRIDGES etc., it's not about what is rational or good long-term for the tribe. They are not interested in constructing bridges, working to end racism, etc. They are for simply striking back in this fashion.
How in the hell are Native Americans supposed to end racism when we're the victims? PR blunders my a$$. So if by some miracle the nickname stays, NA's are going to be embraced by the dominant culture and racism ends and we all sing Kumbaya by the campfire? Wake up and smell the coffee people! NA's have always gotten the shaft from the man and always will. I'm bein real and you know it. If we have a chance to win a small skirmish, after gettin kicked for hundreds of years, then I'm all for it.
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No, judging it from news articles about corruption of funds and resources, about rigged/illegal elections, high school drop out rates, teenage pregnancy, children born with fetal alcohol syndrome, scientific findings re. drug and alcohol abuse on reservations in ND, first hand knowledge about elder, child and domestic abuse on the rez, etc. in addition to that website authored by a Native American. Why is it that those evidence based reports are not valid yet your unsubstantiated allegations are to be accepted at face value?
Your not offering anything new to this forum that we haven't heard before. And like others before you, you avoid answering the 'sticky' questions.
I'm done.
Who is this person who authors this website? Is this person a PHD or someone with any real empirical evidence other than hearsay? Oh, and who is the author? If the person who runs this website wants to be taken seriously, then they should make themselves known.
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There you go again; UND is such a horrible place.
Dude, your'e gonna have to look at my previous posts. Not once do I call UND a horrible place. It's a different place from where I'm from and I had some negative experiences there. If you had to move to a reservation and live for an extended period of time, what would you think? Perspective, my boy, perspective. Keep arguing with me though, its actually amusing.
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I am going with Sioux-Cia here. You come on this messge board you throw around a bunch of accusations but put forth no incidents to back up your claims only that you faced racism while your were at UND. I am interested and I am sure many others are as well what was your experience here at UND. In your opinion; why is UND such a horrible place? IF UND such a horrible place why do we have one of the top Native American programs in the COUNTRY.
Please tell us about incidents you talk about so we can see UND/Grand Forks from your perpsective.
I could list the experiences I had at UND but what good would it do? You would just call me a liar anyway. I know what experiences I had while I was at UND and I don't have to prove it to you or anybody else! If you think there is not prejudice at UND then you need to wake up and smell the coffee, bro. By the way, I earned my Masters Degree at Montana State- Bozeman. Their NA programs and outreach to the reservations is tremendous. UND would do good to try to emulate their programs.
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OK Fourwinds I have a question for you. Then where will your kids going to go to school at? There are idiots no matter where you go in life. I think this nothing to do with UND as a whole and nothing to do with the nickname. You are looking for reasons not to like UND anymore, that is fine it is your right. But everything that you post is negative. You have a degree from a great school, that is great. My point is if you look for negatives you will find them anywhere you look. I am sure at UTTC there are negatives too.
Yes there are negatives everywhere but UND seems to be dragging its feet on one of the major issues of our country and that is racism. A major university like UND needs to be a positive force and not tolerate incidence like these but their reaction has been poor at best. I actually feel bad for my alma mater.
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This past Christmas season I was working on a Sioux reservation. The tribal council voted themselves a $500. bonus, each, at the same time a woman was going to strangers' homes begging for food. This was relayed to me by a tribal member who knew the woman. She told me that the council was only taking care of themselves and not the people who were hungry and had no where to live. There are homeless, hungry people all across America and that is our shame. But, I do not accept that there is no abuse of power and resources on reservations when members tell me there are. As I stated in my previous post if even one tenth of that website is true that too is shameful. Even moreso because it's being allowed to continue. One of the members of this board was a friend of the murdered man. According to that member, the website is right on.
That may or may not be true. I am from the SLT and I have never heard of anyone begging for food. You will not find any people living on the streets either. Extended families are big on reservations and a family member will always open their doors for another. Oh wait, don't tell me, you heard it from some one that there was a homeless person on the SLN. Please. And by the way, there are homeless people people living 2 BLOCKS FROM THE US CAPITAL BUILDING, while congressman and senators give themselves bonus'. Get real and get a clue.
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wow... so true. great paragraph
That is a good paragraph that should be aimed all americans not just NA's. Judging our tribal government by looking at a website, wow.
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I think you are reading way to much into the whole "paying" issue. There are things that get changed when information transfers from one person to another (anyone remember playing telephone when we were little?). So the person telling the story in the article interviews a person and they say they had to "get a new meal", the journalist then changes or infers getting a new meal into "paying for a new meal." Facts when not provided first person get lost and we don't get all of the information, it is just bound to happen. So things may not connect with the information, but you are not getting first hand information either, which is what you need to get to make informed comments and conclusions on how well the facts fit together.
Second the problem is that the student wanted to be moved or move out, and for whatever reason the university's housing department wasn't going to allow the student to move or give him a refund to move out (for students on a budget, its hard to move out without money). So while it wouldn't be prudent to move all of the students, the one who did want to be moved got no response from the organization that held all of the cards.
Sounds to me like you're putting the victim on trial rather than the perps. Why? I get the feeling you attitude is the same as UND's, make the victim prove he was terrorized rather than have the perps prove they are innocent. Another blackeye for UND. I am a UND grad and I always wanted m kids to go to UND for college but incidents like these and the nickname issue have changed my mind. I can't stop them from going there but I certainly won't encourage them. Go ahead, let the potshots begin! I put on my mental kevlar.
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I refer to myself as Sioux-cia. Some think it's sioux-CIA. But, it's not. I pronounce it sucia. My little joke with a spanish word. My avatar is 'Goon Squad'. I think of a hockey 'goon' as a fighter who sticks up for his teammates, someone when knocked down gets up again, a blue collar type hard worker, someone with loyalty for his own. I have also had a Cougar avatar for awhile because of a friendship I have with a younger member on this board. I've had other avatars as the mood strikes me. It's all in fun. But, you go ahead and use it as an excuse to not respond to my post. That's your right. You make asumptions about me based on something as trivial as an avatar while I'll make observations about the affects of the Fighting Sioux name and logo on reservation life based on my own experiences on a Sioux reservation. I'll also make my own opinions on racism's cause and affect on my life as a minority from my own life experiences not those that someone else tells me I should believe or accept.
Oh yeah, racism is alive and well in America. You can fight it by raising your children to believe there is NO ONE better then they are because of the color of their skin, you can fight it through education, through example-living a drug free/alcohol free/violence free life. You can demand accountability from your tribal council and by doing so, provide your tribe with ALL the resources available to them, not just those not stolen by those in charge. I was sent a link to a website created by a SL tribal member. The things posted there, if even one tenth true, are shameful even more so because tribal members do nothing about the abuse of power by tribal officials. Don't blame a name and logo for the problems of Native Americans, blame your own 'officials'.
I can point to 'cause and affect' created by tribal councils' abuse of power on reservations. I doubt you can point to 'cause and affect' by a name and logo.
The site you are refering to is way off base. Our tribal government is by no means perfect but is no where near what is described in that site. I know 3 of the individuals on the council and they are good people. It's hard to run a tribe and they are doing the best they can. The individual who runs that site must have aserious bone to pick with someone.
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That could very well be! Why haven't the tribes with casinos used some of their money to fight the name and logo? Probably the same reason they don't share it with the tribal membership! Greed!! So why aren't the reservations full of doctors, lawyers, etc. BECAUSE they go to UND to get an education and can't stomach going back to the rez to live. They don't want their children exposed to corruption of casino funds, apathy, 'poor me' attitudes, low high school graduation rates, higher than normal alcohol and drug abuse, tribal council dictatorship, misapropriation of government funds, domestic abuse, gangs, etc. Yes, those things happen all over the U.S. but living on a reservation makes it more difficult to protect your family from them. How many doctors, lawyers, etc have gone back to the rez to make life better for those those still living there? I'm willing to bet that the number that run the other way is larger than the ones that go back. Oh sure, you hear them talking about working for a better life for those let behind but how much can you do living off the rez?
That said, it's disgusting that three individuls are getting away with these 'hate crimes'. AND, yes, that is what they are. Threats, verbal abuse, brandishing a gun (I couldn't tell the difference between a pellet gun and one that shoots bullets), etc. are crimes!! I'm ashamed that the university isn't being more pro-active. The fact that the victim and not the abusers had to leave his home is unbelievable!!
There are no MD's, Engineers who are enrolled members of the SLT. To my knowledge, there are 2 lawyers, one who lives on SLT and I don't know were the other resides or works. Wow you from Spirit lake? How do you know so much or think you know so much about the SLT? I get the feeling you are just making inferences based on stereotypes and heresay. I was born and raised on the SLN. Have a masters degree, am married with 2 kids, who attend a school on the SLN, and am very happy living here. Wouldn't want to live anywhere else. It is no where near as bad as you described it! Gangs, are you kidding me?! Corrupt polititians, boy you don't find those anywhere but on a reservation! Its people like you who perpetuate the negative stereotypes toward us.
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Here we go again! One speaking for all tribal members and one alluding to 'experiences in GF and UND'. So, pray, tell, what happened to you in GF and at UND as a direct result of the Fighting Sioux name and logo??
I was going to reply to you and goon's requests to site my experiences at UND but I can't bring myself to respond to persons who would refer to themselves as "Goon" and "Goon squad". Your monkers give me and idea of your mindset and no thanks!
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Unfortunately, fourwindsboy, you hit the problem on the head but not the way you intended. Your reply comes across as "Do it for me!" That simply does not work and is a mindset failure from the start. You mention distance learning. UND has an extensive on-line curriculum. I know, my son made use of it.
It takes two to tango and "Do you it for me" is failure mode from the start. What would it take for Fort Totten to go to UND and propose discussing some joint efforts? Not much, and it has been done in ND for decades with other schools. I started in pre-engineering at Dickinson State, and it was closely linked with the engineering department at UND. Joint efforts are going on, opportunities are there, but you cannot simply wait for others to do it for you. This isn't entitlement, it is empowerment. It won't be handed to you, but the rhetoric that is being heard from various elements makes doing these joint things just that much more difficult.
Does Fort Totten have an alumni advisory board or alumni advisory councils? If so, that would be a great opportunity to participate and help get something like this going. Don't sit back and wait for someone to do it for you.
All I hear is UND doesn't do this or doesn't do that. But I haven't heard anyone say that we approached UND with this concept and were rejected. So you have indentified the problem, but you haven't recognized the proper solution. I don't want this to come across as critical, but it you want something to happen you have to make the effort rather than just complain that someone didn't do it for you.
I worked at CCCC for over ten years and alot of attempts were made to partner with UND via distance learning but those efforts were always in vain. The sticking point was, of course money. By the way, CCCC initiated those talks and I guess you could say they were rejected.
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In a letter to UND administrators, Weinstein linked the West Hall and Noren Hall swastikas with the Gamma Phi Indian party, suggesting that the UND administration had compromised its moral authority by defending for so long the school
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Oh, so your aim is retribution and pay back rather than remedying the "hostile and abusive" nature of the nickname? Your aim is not to work to allay the supposed deleterious "self-esteem" effects of the big bad nickname? I knew those claims were always just shams for the racist motivations that you so eloquently stated. Besides, what were your racist experiences specifically at UND? Do they even exist? Did you report them? Given that you kicked some @$$ at least one time, I presume there are police reports/campus security reports? No? Is this just the same old trip-trap that name changers trot out about insults and racist experiences that never happened except for in their dreams?
You know why you don't hear about most of these racist experiences. Because we are used to being discriminated against at the towns close to our reservations and we sort of become use to it. Devils Lake is a very racist community and myself and pretty much everyone I know has had experiences there thoughout our lives. As for putting them on the table what the hell is that going to do? Are the attackers going to repent? Come on, wake up and smell the coffee. i find it amusing that when I come on here and other forums and express my veiwpoint on how I think the nickname should be changed based on my life experiences, I end up being accused of not tolerating other races.
Awesome Letter
in UND Nickname
Posted
Are you serious? Wow is that an ignorant statement! That is classic. So your saying all of us NA's, blacks, especially in South Africa, Aboriginies, Maori in New Zealand, etc are letting racism happen? We are letting you be racist. I'm gonna put that in my favorites, I gotta show this to my bro's. You are Stupid, you know that just plain stupid! Go ahead all the rest of you, defend him. I can't wait to read what's coming.