tony

When the rest of the NCC decided not to move up, the new conference idea went out the window so the thirteen-year figure is meaningless. It takes eigtht years for a team to become eligible for the postseason in basketball. It takes thirteen years for a new conference to become eligible for an automatic bid. Conferences pick a conference champion, not the NCAA. There seem to be some other misconceptions. First, the NDSU folks who decided to go DI are not stupid. Heck, I'm smarter than any UND fan out there - I decided to go to NDSU, didn't I? Second, our (NDSU folks') sole motivation in making the DI decision was to do what was best for NDSU in the long run. For UND fans, you seem to be analyzing the issue in terms of doing what's best for UND and this makes critical thinking impossible until you address that error. Remember the debate about NDSU's name change and building the FargoDome? In both cases, UND people provided extremely poor arguments against each and were spectacularly wrong in both instances. Third, the five-year provisional period with an exploratory year was adopted in April, after the Carr Report was released. So when NDSU decided to go DI in September without a conference invitation, I thought that this was completely acceptable because it meant that NDSU had additional time to find a conference without being fully committed to DI. Some UND fans were making conclusions about the honesty of NDSU's administration without acknowledging that the situation had changed. Perhaps they didn't know better - now they do. NDSU should stay in DII, perhaps as an independent, if they don't have a commitment from a conference by the time they have to finalize the decision. Since I believe that NDSU clearly belongs in DI, this would be a set-back. As waiting accomplishes nothing, it is an acceptable risk. Unlike the arguments against going DI, the arguments for waiting a couple years have no merit at all, although it might make for an interesting side discussion.

Yeah, I edited out an analogy. It just portrayed the NCC members as guys sitting around having a drink when the NDSU guy announces he's going to date an out-of-town girl (DI) with UND playing the part of the guy who says that she's out of NDSU's league at the same time he's saying that she's not so special. I'm sorry that I distracted people from my points but, as a Bison fan, it's really hard to read some of the stuff you UND guys have been writing.

Hey, I'm a lowly computer science guy. My writing only really takes flight when I'm ripping into somebody or coming up with ridiculous schemes - neither of which I'd do here. I do try to be as honest as possible. If I missed some risks that seem obvious to you, please believe me that it wasn't because I was trying to sweep them under the rug - it's just that I either didn't think of them or that I don't view them in the same light as you.

I get tired of people wishing NDSU well and then in the next breath saying how our motivations are unworthy. Rather than having to rely on anecdotal evidence, I'll tell you exactly what I think about the issue with no spin and with complete honesty. First, it wasn't UND the spelled the end of NDSU in the DII, it was the NSIC. Since the NSIC has moved up to DII, we've now got about 20 DII schools in the tri-state. If you view the NCAA classification as a market segment, then DII is a lot more crowded, and the new schools aren't much like NCC schools - definitely not state flagships. By going DI, NDSU suddenly finds itself as one of only three DI football-playing schools in MN, ND, WI, and SD. It seemed like a good way to differentiate NDSU from the pack. Second, if the survey of likely financial supporters of NDSU's move had come back negatively, I wouldn't have supported the move. It's going to be tough to make it in DI and I was glad that the survey asked if our continued financial support was dependent on winning seasons. The survey gave me a chance to answer without considering whether there were enough other people supporting the move. Third, it was time to decide one way or another whether NDSU was going to go DI. Ever since DI-AA was formed, NDSU has been talking about going DI. 25 years of talking is too much. Fourth, NDSU's football team is the engine that drives NDSU sports and NDSU isn't doing well in DII football (even before this year's season). They're winning about 75-80% of their games and they've made it to the playoffs a couple times in the last few years. There are very few programs that are having that kind of success and most of them don't have NDSU's competition. NDSU, the media, and the fans are holding the FB team to a nearly impossible standard - a standard that no team with NDSU's competition can possibly maintain. I wanted NDSU to be the underdog again and to scratch their way back to the top because it's a lot more motivating to be the underdog than being the prohibitive favorite all the time. I've never believed that DI-AA football is much better than DII football at all in the first place so I figured that most good Bison teams could match up with most DI-AA teams already. It follows that adding 27 scholarships might just push NDSU over the top. Fifth, there's the NCAA. I thought that NDSU would benefit from the higher standards that DI demands from recruits, even though they'll have to bypass recruits that they could have gone after before. I also knew that the NCAA was talking about reorganization and thought that being in DI would give NDSU the most options in the event of significant changes. I hate DII's regionalized format, I thought NDSU got screwed when they got sent down to Mississippi in 2000 (and that wasn't the first time), and I figured that the NSIC was going to start getting into the playoffs every year. What's a recruit supposed to think when Winona makes the playoffs and NDSU doesn't? DII had yet to show that they had a long-term plan. To me it seemed likely that we'd have four or more new-from-NAIA conferences join DII by 2005 and that they'd all demand to get into the playoffs in all sports - with the same tactic that's been used before, "either get us into the playoffs or we'll level the playing field (ie reduce scholarships). Maybe DII can navigate those waters, but they've yet to show they have what it takes. Sixth, there's the little perks that make recruiting easier. NDSU would finally appear in the web drop-down lists of NCAA teams. Right now, it's like we don't even exist. NDSU will show up on scoreboards. The national recruiting web sites will show NDSU's FB recruits. Sure, it's not that big of a deal but at least we'll exist in the DI world. Seventh, there is the possibility of more with basketball. Nobody really talked about it, but basketball is a huge draw in ND. At NDSU, BB fans aren't really a big part of Team Makers. I was kind of hoping that BB fans would end up becoming just as big a part of Team Makers and FB fans are. Mock me if you will, but I really think that NDSU will get teams on the schedule that will generate substantially more interest in non-NDSU people than almost all NCC and NSIC teams. Finally, I thought that the move was going to be tough and that failure was a distinct possibility. The consequences of failure just didn't seem as terrible as people were making out. The Board of Higher Ed and legislature aren't going to let NDSU's athletic department run large deficits. They'd just force NDSU to go back to DII and NDSU would be an independent. That doesn't sound so bad to me. DISCLAIMER: I've edited this post. Yep, it's true - me not write so good. I mix tenses a lot, for example. Don't blame NDSU; I was (and am still) ultimately responsible for my own education.

Sure do: Here it is

The minimum number of sports for a DI institution is 14. Under Division II guidelines NDSU has 14 sports. In Division I, mens indoor track, mens outdoor track, womens indoor track, and womens outdoor track are counted as four separate sports. Just to make sure that everybody gets this clear: next year, NDSU will have at least 16 DI sports. In addition, they'll probably add another women's sport to get it up to 17 sometime within the next couple of years. ----- One thing that should be mentioned is that NDSU can play D2 schools next year but not in 2003-2004. In 2004-2005, I think that NDSU can mix one or two D2 schools back into the schedule. Hell, sorry for bugging you guys again but maybe this post will clear some things up once and for all.

Hey, I don't want to offend you guys and I've got better things to do than be a troll here (besides JBB has the job covered) so I'll only respond if you indicate that you want me to. NDSU and Northern Colorado are going DI regardless of how many arguments the Herald comes up with. NDSU has two full years to find a conference. Even if NDSU doesn't find a conference in the next two years, I'm not sure there's that much risk involved because the provisional year is designed to give the schools a buffer. A DI NCC is no longer an option. This means that having UND stay DII is better for NDSU in my opinion. The only scenario in which UND going DI helps out is this: SDSU decides to stay in DII *and* NDSU finds a conference that will only take UND and NDSU as a package. Every other scenario works to our mutual disadvantage.

Hey, I'm a Bison fan so this will probably be my first and last post. I just keep tabs on what you guys are saying. Here's the deal, if UND doesn't want to go DI, so be it. You can speculate on what NDSU coaches think about the move by looking at the tie that Chapman was wearing at a press conference. You can share the deep insight you've achieved by talking to Team Makers. You can list dozens of reasons that NDSU will fail. You know what? NDSU is still going to go DI. If you were approaching the issue by talking about why UND should stay in DII or go DI, I wouldn't be bothering you at all. That's not what's happening though. Half the time you're saying NDSU will fail in DI and then in the next sentence saying that UND should move up. Here's what I suggest. If you want to know what NDSU's coaches think about the move, read their interviews. If you want to know what Team Makers think about the move, read the survey results. If you don't want UND to go DI, talk about UND and leave NDSU out of it. If you think that NDSU is going DI because UND has enjoyed some success in DII, then you might want to consider how well your logic holds up in the light that NDSU has been talking about this for 20+ years. If you think that the Team Makers, NDSU students and alumni, Fargo business leaders, and NDSU's administration all gave the thumbs up to a DI move just to force UND into moving up too... um.... yeah... whatever you say. Hate to break it to you, it was SDSU we were working on Anybody who follows DII knows that the division is changing in ways that don't suit NDSU. Hoping that the status quo will continue indefinitely doesn't seem like much of a strategy.