ND Pride

Hakstol was at the F/M Jets game tonight (Sunday) in Fargo for what that's worth.

Normally, it is somewhat simplistic to try and characterize a community the size of Fargo or Grand Forks in terms of being oriented in some dominant way, to the minimization of other sports, toward one sport or another. When I moved to North Dakota it seemed clear that Fargo was a big baseball town - Roger Maris, etc, etc . It was also clear that Fargo was a big football town and if you have not seen the resources devoted to golf then you are missing a few things. We used to joke that a broken ball washer at a golf course would be fixed in Fargo before an outdoor rink would be maintained. Hockey is perhaps my favorite sport and I see it as down the totem pole in Fargo. I would say football, baseball and even basketball are bigger. I think by most measures that would be true. It would take a lot of space to explain the rationale for these conclusions but if you look at attendance at high school sports events, which admittedly is only one measure, you would find hockey behind football and basketball. If you look at the number of kids playing and media coverage for baseball and golf you would see that they get much more than hockey. Someone could easily turn this into a book or two.

Just to clear the air a little bit and provide another view without critiquing anyone else. From my experience with "all state" type hockey programs (North Dakota USA Hockey Select program, Elite league) I can say that some of the best people I know, based on that experience, are from Grand Forks, West Fargo, Grafton, Bismarck, Minot, and Fargo (North and South). At a high level of play, when these kids get together on these types of teams you meet some great parents and terrific kids. There are great kids everywhere but when they get together on a AAA or select teams the experience is even better. I hope hockey continues to develop in every community. For those of you with younger kids, if you get a chance to tryout for a team that involves kids from other cities in the "off-season" I would say do it. It could be one of the best experiences you have even had and may go along way in breaking down barriers.

Wow, does anyone know if it will be a boy or a girl?

Central beat Grafton 4-3 in OT - Marto got the game winner.

How many kids do the Gophers have right now on their roster that they took straight out of high school? It is always interesting to learn more about how these kids make that transition, i.e. how important the juniors route is. I have heard varying opinions and am interested in your analysis of it.

Actually, they tried that in youth hockey quite a few years ago and played a state champion youth team from the east in a post season tourney and lost by a larger margin than they did as an intact team during the regular season.

In any case, good luck to him and I hope whatever choice he makes provides maximum development for his hockey career. The options available provide a lot of tough decisions. It will be interesting to see where he ends up next fall.

The big W is all that really matters regardless of scoring margin, shots on goal etc. I played on a very good Red River team that should have won state but got beat in the semi-final game and you know how many people remember that team? About 20 fat, balding guys who to this day think of shoulda coulda woulda. It is all about the W and that is the bottom line. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Jloos, North had a good senior class but you need to look a bit closer at the team's productivity before you claim, "This year's senior class is it down to pee-wees" The top point getters for north included a junior and a sophomore and that entire line (including another junior) is returning along with their goalie. Yeah, the pipeline is bad at Fargo North but don't judge it as totally empty when in fact it is not. The problem will be filling out a second and third line and getting the defense up to speed. I agree with you that West Fargo could be a force to deal with in the next few years - they just need good leadership in the developmental pipeline as they have the money. Shanley will hurt South a bit and also North. Youth hockey in my mind is a bit of a joke in Fargo - it has been fragmented again and again with splinter programs - Patriots, Angels, Grizzlies, etc, etc. Grand Forks has had some problems but they have many parents who know the game, played high school and D-I and are positive forces in the developmental process. Moorhead has a similiar situation with generally strong hockey-oriented leadership. Youth hockey "leadership" in Fargo has been problematic for a long time.

If we are going to narrow down the years, then let's narrow the gap from '96 to present, which is a nine-year period and certainly more indicative of recent history than what happened in the early 90's. During that time, GF schools won SEVEN of NINE, with RR, alone, winning five. That is pretty dominate. In fact, it is incredibly dominate. The only stretch that I see where a GF school (the same one or either) didn't repeat was '85-86 and '91-92, but those time periods were 13 and 19 years ago, which needless to say is a very long time. As for a new era, I will believe it when I see it. Has the gap been narrowed, perhaps? But, South's certainly had strong squads off and on for some time and that has rarely translated into championships. I hope your son does well and one day skates for South and if he leads them to a championship, that would be great, but simply because South lost by a "fluke" 47 seconds last year, won the East Region this year and won two titles in the '90's, doesn't, in my opinion, automatically equate with them "easily" winning five of the next ten titles. That would be an incredible turnaround and I would be very surprised if it happened. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

If Grand Forks kept all of their players as oppossed to players going the USHL/Junior route, I would bet that more titles would have gone to RRHS or CHS. <{POST_SNAPBACK}> There is some truth to what you say but other schools can also use that rationale for saying they would have had better teams as well. As pointed out in a previous thread: Minot has lost a handful of players to the junior leagues. Namely Quinn Fylling, Brian Haaland (Nebraska-Omaha), Eric Helstedt (Uconn), Ben Keup (LSSU), and a couple of other kids that just left because of the coaching. Cory Loos, a top scorer for the Spuds and a Minn State all tourney selection last year, left North High to play at Moorhead - basically the same idea as going to juniors - getting into a top developmental program. John Halstensen went to the FM Jets this year and Elliot Okland, the goalie with the top save % in the USA Hockey National Select Festival went to the F/M Jets and passed up his last two years at North. Two other players left North for Moorhead believing that the developmental grass was greener. And of course the greatest move of all, Danny Irmen playing for North and then going to Red River - again not juniors but moving up to a program with a great tradition. There are other stories like this if you want to do the research on it. Nick Krebsbach left Minot for Red River and was there at the same time as Danny Irmen. Those two were major contributors to Red River and maybe Red River would not have won the 5 OT game without the two of them on their team. South high lost a couple of kids as well over the years - one Wade Haarstad went to Moorhead and then the USHL. There is more of that than you think and most people are only aware of their own schools. Dallas Bossert, left Bismarck Century for Shattuck-St. Mary's etc, etc.

ok nd pride lets settle down a little bit here. we all know that you are a hockey guru but you really need to stop overanalyzing things so much. please quit now. im worried what you are going to be doing when high school season is done. please with all due respect stop. for the good of mankind. please. <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

A national survey of NDSU graduates in 2000 indicated that 80.0% had internet access. I would take that to be a good indication of some knowledge and skills with a computer. I would guess that the UND stats would be in that same ballpark. Of course, with internet connections growing a 2000 study is somewhat dated and the percentages are probably higher now.

From the lists posted, it looks like a GF school has won 4 of the last 5, 8 of the last 10, 10 of last 15, and 13 of last 20. Domination by the GF schools has been "over for a very long time?" If state titles is your criterion, think maybe you should re-examine the evidence... <{POST_SNAPBACK}>

I know enough about Eli Rosendahl to say that he is an excellent goalie. In fact, the kid was good enough as a hockey player to skate out on a summer AA team when he was a Pee Wee on a line with Ryan Schaefer and Nick Klenow of North. In fact, the team was undefeated going 11-0-1 that summer. Eli is a good athlete and it is too bad when someone with a high level of talent does not get to showcase it against the top teams. Where he would be on other teams is a totally hypothetical thing - depends on the coach and if he has a good senior that he wants to give most of the playing time to. I'm sure Eli will be doing a great job next year and I look forward to watching him. With the speculation on another thread about who the possible candidates are for Mr. Hockey next year it is easy to forget that a goalie could step forward and be the top player in the state.

Very well stated Lefty.

Well, I am not here to build up one team over another - this is a tough year to call - and much of the analysis here is based on more emotion than fact. I am in the east but here is one fact - A west team won an opening round game last year as Bismarck High beat Grafton 2-1 in OT. Bismarck then lost to South in the Semi-final 2-1. Also, Bismarck Century upset EDC Champs North High in 2002 in the opening round on a shot from Dallas Bossert who now plays for Shattuck-St. Mary's Nationally ranked Prep team. Maybe if all of the stats were in front of us we would all be more humble.